December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > ISP_Ratings wrote: > > Yes--and given the role Dr. Vulis has played in this matter > > it would be most appropriate for him to write an FAQ (although > > I personally ignore most FAQs). >Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the good doctor to write a FUQs. Why not do it like the Declaration of Independence? A primary author puts the basic document together, and other persons with expertise in other important areas add to it, then it gets circulated on the list for comments and suggestions. "Other areas" not normally addressed in these kinds of documents should include subscribers' awareness that the crypto lists are a prime target of attention from federal agencies, et al, and that much of the material posted could be pure disinformation.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: :0 c | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl Any objections? - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Bryan Reece 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Delivered-To: reece-cpunks-raw(a)nceye.net Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:07:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, wcampbel(a)peganet.com Reply-To: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) X-No-Archive: yes Organization: Bool Sheet Software X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?).

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Peter J. Capelli 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

< snow writes > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). > > My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government > can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. > > ??? ( non-US residents, tune out ... ) This is the way it ( the constitution ) was written to work; however, the feds have found an interesting way around this. Here, in two easy steps, is their secret backdoor through the constitution: Step 1: Take our money in federal taxes. Step 2: Refuse to give it back to us unless we follow their guidelines. It's been done time and time again, "for our own good". Witness the country-wide drinking age of 21 ( if states don't enact it, they lose their highway funds ), or the upcoming welfare "return" to the states. So, while the Federal government doesn't enact the legislation, they have a big enough stick to force states and local govt. to bend to their "suggestion". Sorry. -pete -- Pete Capelli, CNE UB Networks, Inc. pcapelli(a)ub.com ****** Finger pete(a)idaho.ubisg.com for my PGP Public key! ****** They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:28 PM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: :anomalies in the new system, [now the big words!] :given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed :mailing list system. : On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking :to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) : :Toto I recant. You ARE nuts! Alec Niice post. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwkMFiKJGkNBIH7lAQHNKQP/dDV5v6wREV37IPkaJTfQqL35c4MyFNfK t4/KmgneKmzGX9uqGzd8Z6kCeRk5vBhAbrhVsqaOhvZouakj2YWe1JbRZWmy+gNR ohY2NERNi0Xm5S1PUrwjQAJutFlw2VV+CZ4GYa/0IV3Fn++GzeZFENbOt6zBTkEZ PsWVhjvoRPU= =3ZEn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark M. wrote: > - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, > alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. ... Along with several others. > - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I > do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not > yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com is receiving messages from > cypherpunks-unedited. I assume this means that the other hosts part > of the distributed list are also receiving cypherpunks-unedited > messages. Correct. > - Lance Cottrell is running another list (cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net) that is > not yet part of the distributed list. It is also receiving feed from > toad.com. I will subscribe to it. Now, it is important to realize that Lance's machine is probably much better connected than mine. Once we get connected with him, you may be better off reading cypherpunks from cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net. If you su-bsc-ribe to cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, it may take longer for articles to reach you. > If you don't want to miss any messages, then you should subscribe to both > cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net and one of the distributed list nodes. Since both > are receiving cypherpunks-unedited, you can safely unsubscribe from > cypherpunks-unedited, -flames, or the "main" list. Since these lists have > overlapping content, you should delete duplicates. I still think that it is a good idea to do nothing for several days and wait until the distributed network picks up cyberpass. Then, subscribe to any node of your liking. - Igor.

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Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > >> Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > >> Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > >> number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > >> of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > >> True Names revealed, etc.? [snip] > The issue hit when abortion advocates argued that a "woman's right to > privacy" allowed abortions. However, none of the enumerated rights made > this obvious. Bork has opined that no right to privacy can be inferred from > the Constitution. (And I always thought the "woman's right to privacy" > argument for abortion was flaky. Accepting such an argument, wouldn't > infanticide be equally protected by a woman's right to privacy?) A perfect invitation for rational argument. You obviously refer to the privacy/right to destroy your own personal property, which you pretty much have in the U.S., Constitution or no. So the issue above is whether the unborn baby is personal property (in the sense that I can chop off my hair or even my ear if I want to), or the child is personal property. The child issue has been settled effectively for many years now, but the controversy remains on the unborn. At least some of this privacy discussion would be better presented from another angle - how deep would the feds want to probe into the common folks' lives, what techniques would be employed, how would the serious folks get around those things, and where would the greatest (and most serious) amount of actions converge to flare up in the public consciousness (media, internet, etc.)?

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) >Bryan Reece wrote: >> >> It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. >> alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the >> order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to >> Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). Well, Lance Cottrell would appear to be a good person to ask on this matter, but... >I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: >:0 c >| formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl >Any objections? given that mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu gets one of its USENET feeds via cyberpass.net, it would appear to be unnecessary if this recipe is in use. However, I do have one problem with this recipe: lack of loop prevention if a news2mail gateway is going in the other direction. I don't know, but the mail2news gateway folks may not be too happy with this idea either, given massively increased load; this is particularly true since IIRC misc.misc is _not_ the proper place to crosspost stuff from & to; it's only for stuff that _really_ doesn't fall under any other category. (I've crossposted this message to the remailer-operators mailing list to make sure it gets to the operators of the gateways in question.) In regards to your later query about whether people want their postings going to Usenet, might I suggest that this be individual to the given distributed mailing list? In other words, since the recipe is logically going to have to not forward to a gateway messages from other mailing lists (since it's not a good idea to have multiple copies of the same message arriving at the gateway if it can be helped; better to filter it out beforehand), some of the mailing lists can forward and the others cannot. (One could even determine this behavior on application of the proper X-header, although I never trust various mailing systems to forward such intact.) The same could also be done with gatewaying _from_ Usenet - if the news2mail gateway feeds to whatever individual lists sign up to it and they _don't_ forward such messages to others, people can decide whether or not to receive Usenet postings on alt.cypherpunks.* by which list they subscribe to. -Allen P.S. A thank you to Reece for setting up a gateway; I had looked at the program and did _not_ much like the idea of having to maintain it on my limited knowledge of C/C++ and mailing software.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:52 PM 2/17/97 -0700, drose(a)AZStarNet.com wrote: >Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff >quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young >fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you >have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy >Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yes, those nosy shopkeepers should really keep it to themselves! I remember at about age 14 being pissed because I'd been sold _10%_ nitric acid, when I was expecting the 70% stuff! Within a few weeks I was buying direct from his supplier! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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