December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jonathan Wienke wrote: >that socialist cesspool New York City. This is true, NYC is an SC. My pinko nose is barely above the surface, for it's a hump treading the globe's shipped in effluvia with concrete boots made of the NIMBYs' unpaid share. And you never get used to it, for sure the waves caused by tens of thousands of NIMBYs cannonballing in for X-rated sin lacking IMBY.

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Re: Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery (fwd)
by Antonomasia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: kent(a)bywater.songbird.com > On Sat, Oct 25, 1997 at 04:28:52PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Any idea how a term meaning 'at right angles' came to hold all the various > > interpretations it now does?... > > > > I see this word in a lot of my reading and it almost never implies any sort > > of 'indipendent multi-variant reference system'. > I can't believe that you haven't studied vector spaces, Jim. In that > particular niche of mathematics, the meaning you quote is precisely the > meaning of 'orthogonal'. Vector algebra underlies a very large part > of mathematics, and modern physics would not exist without it. I believe that is Jim's point. The dictionary definition and "one task, one tool" seem to have quite a gap between them. -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant(a)notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ##############################################################

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G7 to meet in Amazon [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > G7 TO MEET IN AMAZON TO REVIEW DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM > > G7 graphic October 25, 1997 > Web posted at: 8:03 p.m. EDT (0003 GMT) > > BRASILIA, Brazil (Reuters) -- Brazil and the Group of Seven > industrialized nations meet in the Amazonian capital of Manaus next > week to agree on the next stage of a program promoting sustainable > development in the rain forest. > > The annual meeting of G7 donors to the so-called Pilot Program > (G7-PP), administered by the World Bank, begins formally on Tuesday, > with Monday dedicated to presentations by Brazilian government > officials of projects in the Amazon. > > "When we speak of the future, that means completing and > consolidating current projects and thinking about Phase Two of the > G7-PP," Brazilian Environment Minister Gustavo Krause said. > > Starting six years ago, the program has given out $181.3 million of > a total of $250 million pledged to fund projects such as the > demarcation of Indian reserves and protecting fishing communities > from large-scale competitors. > > The rest is budgeted, one of the aims of the three-day meeting will > be to identify new sources of money and coax fresh funds out of the > participants -- Germany, the United States, the European Union, > Japan, Italy, the Netherlands, Britain and Canada. > > Germany has financed the bulk of projects, contributing 35 percent > of the total and even more as the principal economic power in the > European Union. > > The United States, despite spending pledges made by President > Clinton on a visit to Brazil earlier this month, lags in fourth > place, behind the EU and Japan. > > Environmental pressure groups said the most important aspect of the > meeting is a proposal to establish zones in the gigantic Amazon > river basin. Map of Brazil > > They say Pilot Program managers are resigned to the fact Brazil will > pursue large-scale infrastructure projects in the rain forest, > including paving a road from Manaus to Venezuela and river-widening > projects to boost soybean exports. > > "It seems important that the realities of the Amazon region and of > its political weight and significance must be taken into account if > effective conservation of at least a good part of the Amazon are to > be achieved," the World Bank's Rain Forest Unit said in a memo. > > The infrastructure projects basically correspond to what the bank > calls "development corridors" where the "objective is to increase > and geographically concentrate economic activity." > > Such corridors would be counter-balanced by "conservation corridors" > where biodiversity would be protected. > > In between, in so-called inter-corridor spaces, the Rain Forest Unit > suggests policies should make sure economic activity that preserves > as much of the forest as possible becomes more attractive than > clearing land for agriculture. > > A concrete task set by the officials meeting in Manaus is to decide > when Phase Two of the program will begin. > > They must also decide what type of transition is needed to blend > Phase One projects into a broader, cohesive program that fits into > the Brazilian government's plans for the region. > > Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

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Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- -=> Quoting In:anon@anon.efga.org (Monty Cantsin) to Harka <=- In> The government is not Janice's friend. It takes away $18,000 In> from her each year and plunges her into poverty, sort of. If In> you are appealing to the government to assist Janice, first In> ask it to get the hell out of the way. (I realize you may In> just be saying that Janice's plight is unavoidable, not that In> she should be helped with government money.) Hmm, we all agree, that the government is not somebody to be trusted to be your friend. However, we also know the amount of laws possible to "violate" and the consequences that would have. And one of the worst things you can do is evading taxes. At least when they clamp down on you. Not something, I'd recommend to a mother of four kids (that she really doesn't want to give up to government-so-schill-workers). Jim Choate commented on that already, so I save further words. In> Janice should be baby sitting. Were she to take in 4 kids at In> $500/month, she would make as much as her job and be able to In> watch her own kids during the same time. True in short-term. But after 8 kids have been rummaging around in your apartment every day (even without licence and off-the-books and all that stuff) you can definitely expect to spend a couple of grands on repairs in a matter of a month. In> Telephone: $20/month In> Electricity: $40/month (?) In> Heat: $100/month (?) In> Food: $600/month (generous) In> Goodwill Clothes: $100/month (generous) In> Total: $860/month You obviously don't live in NYC (and don't have kids). It costs her alone six bucks a day just to get to work and back (with public transportation). In> The food is generous because four of the five are kids, the In> oldest only being 12. Kids don't each much. You're confirming my suspicion about not having kids :) In> Of course, there is no law that requires one to live in New In> York City. As a matter of fact there is. At least for her. She's _required_ by the divorce-court to live within a 60-mile-zone of her ex-husband and father of her kids (he's in the City too). For visitation-rights and all that (i.e. she can't move out of state without his approval or be charged with kidnapping, if she does it anyway). A thing applicable to probably hundreds of thousands of people (women mostly) in the US. And that alone limits one's "free choice of employers" quite severely. In> It seems pretty clear that making money was not her top In> priority. It's never been a secret that teachers are not top In> earners. I'm not seeing a description of somebody who really In> tried to make money in a serious way. Talking about freedom at the same time then is an oxymoron and you're confirming my "criticisms about the free market" (Yes Tim, I have re-considered my position without changing my perspective in the end). Capitalism in it's current form does not allow for individual freedom for most people (exceptions apply), because they have to make the money to be free (independent). If that requires doing for years, what you don't want to do (working in computers, although you hate them and all you really want to do is paint and live as an artist but can't afford to, for example), then that means by definition, that freedom has to be given up. At least temporarely and as mentioned before, that can be a _very_ long time for most people (who have been born into the "wrong" families, for example). In> Good for her. It sounds like Janice may have the strength of In> character to turn her situation around. Btw., I'll forward her all of the advice and suggestions everybody gave. Thanks for everybodies effort and consideration of the (for her personal) matter. Also, (violins or not :)) : It was not my primary intention to cause tears of compassion for Janices personal situation (a lot of people on and off the list have a rough time too to get on in life), but to introduce some realism into the discussion of "free choice of employers". Cypherpunks sometimes tend to become somewhat theoretical about things, neglecting the possibility, that it may not apply on a larger (real-life)scale. Pointing such things out I regard as a very important thing to the effectiveness of Cypherpunks-discussions and subsequent influence. The argument of an (for everybody) existing "free choice of employers", for example, should by now be seen as rather relativ, if not completely negated. Further it is a social issue of importance also for Cypherpunks. Obviously we don't want governments "taking care of people", but desire individual freedom, self-determination and independence instead. However, as proven such things are possible in the "free market" only to a limited degree, i.e not applicable by default to everybody, IMHO. Do I have a solution? Honestly, I don't and I wish I had. That doesn't prevent me from seeing (and pointing out) things, that I don't agree with when looking out the window or talking with friends, who are in a very different position than I might be in. If anybody _does_ have a solution, that enables _all_ people (regardless of background) to become truly free and also provides a realistic way to achieve that (for everybody), then I'll be more than happy to listen and to adjust my own perspective. Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... "It is better to die on our feet than to live on our knees." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFNs/jltEBIEF0MBAQFfYwf9FthPQH1q3A66xWtMf/9NGfOf4Vn6JaY9 Gt/6nVCQ+nZJIRPP//9NwowOm7DcbEYMCKASHVEIGNyUtGuWpcf1wZxywlHJ/AEs d34/XwCYe9y/L/pIwk7RfN9aqr5pALw5FGAVPWQZiCyom8XuWSMcPrkEQxsctp99 Qs9cQ33fgBfvpydkM7l9ugkPs5eynycv/pHLvwym9BMl2jQxe4IiUqs1tNbjW8Er A3qM39bmU599GHF3kyvRy+w8ATC1oFg3qvFVx8DvH/856VgD0jRW0rAPhC2jOcYb NbgHADbw469uG7hVFQSY8ghN1aXCgGDJAI8Fih3OGfsgfm/ttdIU0Q== =r2F2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Another David Bohm book [non-crypto]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I know this isn't crypto related but several times David Bohm has come up in discussions relating to physics and various interpretations of Quantum Physics. Check out the essay collection: Quantum Implications: Essays in Honour of David Bohm ed. B.J. Hiley, F.D. Peat ISBN 0-415-06960-2 $19.95 Hiley collaborated with Bohm in his physics and co-authored The Undivided Universe, while Peat co-authored with Bohm the book Science, Order, and Creativity. 30 essays by: B.J. Hiley & F.D. Peat David Bohm E.P. Gross D. Pines A.J. Leggett R. Penrose T.D. Clark B. d'Espagnat J.P. Vigier, C. Dewdney, P.R. Holland A. Kyprianidis I. Prigogine, Y. Elskens Y. Aharonov, D. Albert J.S. Bell R.P. Feynman G.F. Chew H.P. Stapp C.W. Kilmister F.A.M. Frescura, B.J. Hiley D. Finkelstein P.R. Holland, C. Phillipidis H. Frohlich R. Rosen B.C. Goodwin M.H.F. Wilkins A. Ford K.H. Pribram G.G. Globus M. Ullman D. Shainberg J. Briggs R. Weber ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Click HERE for Boy Sex
by secret＠nsa.fbi.cia.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An interesting anti-censorship experiment is currently taking place on Usenet. It's ingredients: One Libertarian-minded California ISP named InterBBS which provides a variety of services to various pay XXX Web sites, for resale to their customers, including an uncensored, unfiltered, and unexpurgated newsfeed, which InterBBS is protected by Common Carrier status from liability for the contents of. A nifty piece of software, recently added to InterBBS, which runs something called "newspix", a web-based interface to Usenet binaries pictures groups, pre-decoded and cross-referenced for your instant point-and-clicking pleasure. A guy named "Dave", a customer of InterBBS, who is reselling the services of InterBBS through a pay boy pictures site, including web access to a number of boy-related erotica newsgroups, whose content neither Dave nor InterBBS controls. Dave is very careful to tell us that it is imperative that we not download anything which would be illegal according to our community standards, and that if we "unknowingly" do so, we should delete it immediately. InterBBS, and its lawyers, maintain that their decoded neatly indexed web-accessible Usenet pictures service enjoys the same immunity for its content due to their Common Carrier status as the raw newsfeed does, and of course, they wouldn't think of keeping records on which customers read which Usenet articles. The owner of InterBBS is Marlin Schwanke, who also runs *CENSORED*.com, and is well known for giving bandwidth to persecuted causes. The net effect of all of these things coming together is that there now exists convenient pseudoanonymous web access to all boy-related child porn pictures posted to Usenet, for a small fee you may bill monthly to the credit card of your choice. This new service has caused a huge rift amongst Net Boylovers, who believe that even if this operation is technically legal, and protects the confidentiality of its customers, that such conspicuous promotion of locations on Usenet where illegal material is very likely to be found, and facilitating its easy access to the non-technically minded for profit, is not in anyones best interests. For Further Reading: http://boypics.com/newspix.html (Dave's Naughty Pix) http://www.ivan.net/bc/messages/38850.htm (Marlin Answers His Critics) http://www.interbbs.com/ (InterBBS home page) Surely the Feds are not going to take this lying down. :) Will Marlin and Dave be dragged to Tennessee or Utah to face trial in front of a bunch of inbred jurors? Will yokels from the cast of "Deliverance" in the courtroom audience squeal like pigs when the words "10 year old erect penis" are mentioned? Will Dave get a cell next to Robert Thomas of AA BBS fame? Will Reno and Freeh engage in unnatural sex and have a deformed cow? Is this the technology that will finally drive Officer Mike "Sewer Site" Paladino to take his own life? Stay tuned for the next episode of "Boy Pics from Dave." --BoySexMonger

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FUTUREWEAR (fashion, clothing and clubwear)
by daniel＠relaxed.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FUTUREWEAR (fashion, clothing and clubwear) by Daniel Eder FUTUREWEAR T-SHIRTS NOW AVAILABLE: http://www.futurewear.com/ -------- wholesalers, resalers and promoters: contact me at daniel(a)futurewear.com

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Flag ban in Mississippi [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > FLAG BAN TUGS ON OLE MISS TRADITIONS > > Students wave Confederate flags > > Confederate banner impedes athletic recruiting > > October 25, 1997 > Web posted at: 10:44 p.m. EDT (0244 GMT) > > From Correspondent Brian Cabell > > OXFORD, Mississippi (CNN) -- On any given football Saturday, when > the Ole Miss Rebels find the end zone and the crowd explodes, you > can see Confederate flags being waved. > > But there are not nearly as many rebel flags as in years past -- and > there will soon be even fewer if the University of Mississippi's > chancellor has his way. > > This week, chancellor Robert Khayat ordered a ban on all sticks at > athletic events, starting next week. It's ostensibly for safety > reasons, but no one is fooled -- it is clearly an attempt to keep > out the Confederate flags attached to those sticks. CNN's Brian > Cabell reports > icon 2 min., 1 sec. VXtreme streaming video > > At Ole Miss, tradition is grudgingly giving way to the political and > social reality that the rebel flag is perceived by some people, > particularly African Americans, as a racist symbol. > > "We're tired of the attention, the negative publicity that we're > getting," said athletic director Pete Boone. "I mean, we've got a > great university here, a great academic program, and we're being > held back from a national perspective because of this Confederate > flag." > > Saturday's football game against Alabama was the first since Khayat > ordered the ban. And while the student senate this week also > recommended that the rebel flags be left home, they were > particularly visible in the student section. > > "Other people can do things and wave things and it's fine, but if we > do it, it seems like it's racist," complained one student. "But it's > not racist. We're proud of our Southern heritage." > > Ironically, many of those who have forsaken the flag are older Ole > Miss fans, who express fears about what the Confederate flag in the > stands does to the quality of the team on the field. > > Indeed, Ole Miss football coach Tommy Tuberville has told fans that > the university is losing black recruits because of the flag. He says > he's gratified that flags are disappearing. > > "I'm proud of our students and our fans, and I think they understand > the situation," he said. "Hopefully, we can continue to make > progress."

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Choices
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Both Monty Cantsin and WHGIII have commented upon current personal conditions being the result of one's past choices (leading up to it). While I agree from a mere causal viewpoint, on a personal level I would like to point out a few things nevertheless: We can take as given, that everybody's life is a stream of decisions or choices. We make 'em to the best of our ability as we go along in life. However, having a choice in matters does not imply the guarantee of making the _right_ choices. In fact, even society acknowledges that fact by making certain choices available only after a certain point in life, such as voting, marriage, driving, drinking etc.etc on the ground, that making such decisions requires a certain level of insight and maturity. But there's _still_ no guarantee for making right choices even after the "magical" age of 18 (or 21). The only thing one can do is to gather enough information in order to make the best choice based on available information and conditions _known_ to you _at that time_. And here's also the catch. By making a certain choice, one does usually _not_ choose the consequences of his/her actions consciously! In fact, the possible consequences may not even be foreseeable, predictable or expected in any way! One does not drive a car with the previous conscious knowledge of crashing it and living in a wheelchair ever after. One does not climb Mt. Everest with the expectation of perishing in a snow-storm. One does not start using PGP based on the prediction, that your key will be GAK'ed at some point. Let's take the example of Janice one more time (violins for Monty:)) : certainly her decision to get married and have 4 kids was her personal and free choice at that time. But it was not foreseeable nor expectable for her, that her husband would take off after a while for another chick, leaving her with the kids and a bunch of bills to pay! Thus she married him and later did what every wife would do: supporting him while he went to school instead of keeping the money for herself as a backup-cushion in case he leaves. Is that really so out of the ordinary a choice?? But even if one is able to make fairly good decisions overall in life: you may not have previous conditions necessary to make certain choices. If you're born into a poor family, who just can't afford to send you to College, how much of a choice to study will you have in that event? More likely is, that you'll have to work and aid in the support of the family instead of going to College. But are you to be held responsible for the conditions that you are born into or grow up under? Clearly not. As you go along in life, one's personal ability to influence your surroundings, conditions and overall life increase (with right effort). But to expect everybody to be able to make certain choices in a certain (right) way, or even expecting those choices being available, is not based on the realities of life but a mere projection from _your_ reality onto "theirs". So is the statement of "screw 'em all" (if they weren't able to make certain choices for reasons we don't know about). Not only does it lack basic notions of humanity, such as caring for other people, but also devalues the human ability to learn and change. Just because you were young and careless (out of lack of understanding at that time) or you were born in a slum in Rio de Janeiro (or NYC) shouldn't mean, that you should still get "screwed" for it when you're fifty or you now deserve the dis-respect of society and no chances anymore. You may have never had them... While technically it is probably correct to say, that current conditions are caused by previous actions (different people have different expressions for that: karma, choices, fate etc.), there's no justification for suffering and certainly none for watching it passively and saying "they deserve it", IMHO. But then this is also a valid choice one can freely make. You just have to live with the consequences of it :) Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ ... "Of course I care about other people...I watch CNN!" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBNFOmJjltEBIEF0MBAQHsKwf/Sh6IWC0UCvSiWAQsTcmDqyw4k6v7AuIg z0IlsrcSbpkBA0c3q2ghaq2TfqFIfOgSIIFr8FKK2Za3erIp6yPfcvc8V+7Lwg70 r7tnBM0janv/3j9asehV4PxiXtghQIZOxqL+14yzKgCHGzYkDglIzMmOBOcz2xrQ lziiPMirHzOii06PJ0daBwhxhqva4zw2m6fWnqdkMfr2/mNZ8/39Y8juCqG6AeSs /WP4D4cpXP581ldHskRMkTvYZEEN6IjnRU9PwWbYvSikU61Y7LXTaD4H39N4Xr2V LYx0AdvAmaOC4H3f/8tU29AkAMFgsVGn3moKzG2FE6frFlbG3L1HPg== =XB87 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Choices
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You are What you do When it counts The Masao ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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