December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: The Natives Are Getting Restless (was Wine Politics Again!)
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Paul Bradley wrote: >I can see why you might say this, but I must ask why we need imaginative >ideas? - The old ones, involving guns and other weapons sound OK to me. >If you really want imaginative ideas go ask Jim Bell, his carbon fibres >idea was sure one I`d never heard of before. [and] >Your style of discourse in your post suggests you believe that the most >effective way to go about achieving a better society and a better form of >government is the reform the present system. ................................................................ We need imaginative ideas because of being the New, Improved, Techno-Elite. Why use crude, primitive, outdated methods, when you can use new, educated, modern ones. heh. Perhaps because of all the history I've read, coupled with (admittedly limited) economic studies, I'm not inclined towards simple violence as the best solution. But this is only because it is, indeed, quite difficult to deliver justice precisely; it is easy to make mistakes about who is the real enemy and instead extinguish the wrong target, thus complicating further the attempts at reestablishing normality (I have read of instances like this, where the wrong person or group was destroyed by mistake, creating havoc without solving the real problem). What I think would be an effective way to achieve a better society & government is to abandon both of them. As in the financial markets, one's attention should be removed from failing, troublesome political elements and placed instead on things/systems which *are* rewarding. The available energies and resources which are being wasted would provide better returns if applied/invested in real "growth" enterprises. Of course, most people aren't ready to do this just immediately, and do wish to promote the existence of both, as they fear the consequences of living without these comforting concepts. There are presently many cities in the U.S. and even, surprisingly, sectors of foreign governments which are privatizing many of their services. This is a teeny step for mankind, yet the end result is that it takes away the excuse of the main governing agencies for the "need" to extract more & more tax moneys for services which aren't working anyway. As soon as everyone has "seen" what has been accomplished by contracting services out & disbanding the entrenched government departments, everyone realizes that yes, there are alternatives to government-run services, and no, society won't die tomorrow from the distance created between the new arrangements and the central command structure. You couldn't have argued most people into this perception, however; they could not have imagined it. It is also a fact that many corporations are providing more and more "benefits" to their employees (some as 'required by law' of course), taking on such responsibilities in regard of the welfare of their employees as resembles a small government. This has the effect of shifting the attention of many people away from what governments can do for them, to what employment in certain companies can deliver. As more individuals begin to look to their employment/employers for these additional benefits, their expectations are shifted accordingly away from a large central body administering to their welfare. This is not a clean weaning away, and it is not without its own inherent errors in the reasons for its existence or in the ways in which these services are conducted/administered (at least,not by libertarian/anarchic standards). But the result is that it takes away from governments another area of responsibility, even while the government positions itself as the commander of what companies will be forced to do for their employees. As a matter of fact, what has been happening is that large companies are coming into competition with governments as "providers". Many people in general, as well as on this list, sometimes wonder who is the more powerful or evil: governments or corporations. Regardless, as corporations take responsibilities away from central bodies, these powers are distributed out to the smaller financial organizations. These little clones then begin to take on a life of their own and begin to challenge the large parent (this makes me think of Sun, which is now in effect challenging the export laws without asking for permission and the U.S.gov has to determine what the right thing is to do about it). These are tug&pull operations; there are many large barks and much gnashing of teeth. But the ones with the money have clout and bargaining power, as without them the U.S. cannot be a "world leader" (a term the meaning of which is slowly dissolving away as well). One day it will transpire that employees will look to their employers for benefits, rather than to a large central Bureau of Disorganization. Business organizations will be the means by which individuals arrange to get their life's provisions (strange that this should presently be the exception, rather than the norm). Individual contractors will continue to make their own short-term arrangements, negotiating for the kind of remuneration which they will accept in exchange for their work. One can extrapolate from that any further developments towards individual leverage in such arrangements. Some people fear that this will only change the face of the Master and not improve the situation at all. But they forget that as long as they can change employers, as long as they are not coerced into working for any particular company, they can not only go where they find it best for themselves, but they can of course create their own business organzation. (duh) This isn't really an idea for an alternative to violence; more of a presentation of an existing trend which could obviate the need for armed confrontation and explosive plans of action. It does not take away the need to always be prepared for self-defense (but there are many ways to defend oneself); it does not take away from the need to let PowerMongers know that individuals are willing & able to use destructive means to prevent totalitarians from assimilating everyone into an amorphous mass of subservient bodies. But it does require perspective into the future, of imagining practical developments from current trends, of researching the possibilities for positive outcomes. It requires that one think in terms of practicality more than in terms of "sticking it to them". But then some people are looking for a good fight, too (on both sides). I just personally wouldn't want to be there when they clash. .. Blanc

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Re: FCPUNX:The USA is the world's biggest terrorist state
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:56 PM 5/21/97 -0700, Steve Schear wrote: > The US is in very real danger of reaping the same sort of maelstrom that > vanquished the Romans. They were also very powerful, with tentacles > reaching almost to the limits of their known world, before a combination of > internal decay and dissention and reprisal from those vanquished put them > asunder. Regrettably, this depiction of the fall of the Roman Empire is incorrect. During the last period of the Roman empire in the west, the empire was both very weak, and extraordinarily brutal to its subjects, torturing to death huge numbers of people on a scale no seen again until the twentieth century. Despite this they never encountered any resistance from their terrorized subjects. Only free people , and people who recently were comparatively free, rebel. A world government would not fall until it had tortured to death such a large proportion of the population that there was enough wilderness to protect runaways, or until its technological level fell so low that its communications stopped working. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: Crypto use to foil law enforcement?
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:36 AM 5/19/97 -0700, Greg Broiles wrote: >I ran across this entry in the Congressional Record which discusses several >examples where encryption was discovered in the course of a law enforcement >investigation. > >[Congressional Record: September 18, 1996 (Senate)][Page S10882-S10886] > >[...] > >Mr. GRASSLEY. Mr. President, I'm pleased that the Senate has passed >the eonomic espionage bill. This is an important measure that I believe [...] > The third case, however, especially illustrates the seriousness of >decryption problems--determining the unique key or in this case, >password from a large number of possibilities. According to Agent >Davis, a mere 4 character password has 1.9 million possibilities due to >the number of keyboard characters. Can you imagine how difficult it >must be to figure a short, 4 character password. What if the password >were 10 characters or 20 or more? It's easy to see why criminals are >moving toward password protection for their records. With the congress so woefully uninformed that they confuse password protection with cryptography and naive enough to believe that 1.9E6 possibilities represents a serious roadblock to entry, it looks like we have a major education effort to perform. It is interesting that there were no examples in this summary of crypto used for communications -- but that's completely consistent with what we've been hearing all along. - Carl +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme(a)cybercash.com http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | |CyberCash, Inc. http://www.cybercash.com/ | |207 Grindall Street PGP 2.6.2: 61E2DE7FCB9D7984E9C8048BA63221A2 | |Baltimore MD 21230-4103 T:(410) 727-4288 F:(410)727-4293 | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: LSE UK crypto politics conference
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:03 PM 5/20/97 +0100, Adam Back wrote: >Panel: Carl Ellison, legal advisor to GLIC (forget name), Nigel >Hickson DTI, someone from TIS (?) who spoke too quitely. Chair was >Caspar Bowden, Scientists for Labour. The person from TIS was Brian Gladman. BTW, he wrote an open letter response to the DTI proposal which is on the web from one of the standard Privacy sites. - Carl +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme(a)cybercash.com http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | |CyberCash, Inc. http://www.cybercash.com/ | |207 Grindall Street PGP 2.6.2: 61E2DE7FCB9D7984E9C8048BA63221A2 | |Baltimore MD 21230-4103 T:(410) 727-4288 F:(410)727-4293 | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

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reporting standards and Jim Bell
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I noticed an example of the sort of reporting standards which the news media is sinking to in reporting on Jim Bell's case... observe these two quotes: The Oregonian, May 20, 1997, Metro Section P-1: : Daly described his friend of 15 years as a "bit of an odd unit" but never : dangerous and never serious about attacking the 9-1-1 systems or the : Bull Run watershed. : : "I'd rat him out in a heartbeat for that," Daly said. So... Daly considered Jim to be merely discussing technical feasibility of attacks, something we do every day on cpunks. Daly says if he had ever considered Jim was thinking of carrying out any of the hypothetical attacks, that he would have reported him instantly. OK... now this other quote from another news story (forwarded by Dimitri to the list from a post in or.politics quoting some newspaper). : And during the interview Daly appeared to crack and turn state's : evidence when Daly offered to "rat (Bell) out in a heartbeat." Sounds like a quote of the same comment by Daly. Sounds like the newspaper(s) in question are having fun, creatively misquoting, and fabricating to work up a story. Not knowing the truth behind any of this stuff, it makes one wonder how much truth there is in the other details of the story as reported by the gutter press. I noticed someone called "the Oregonian" the local fishwrap... presumably implying it is one of those sensationalist news-fiction newspapers, which are continually being sued for liable for printing fictitious garbage about media personalities. Perhaps similar to the UK "the Sun", etc. (a combination of titilating fictional "gossip" and nude pin ups, populist news for the masses). Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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Re: Not that I'm a troublemaker, but...
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I was watching the national news broadcast a picture of the key to the Ryder truck that was purportedly found near where McVeigh's car was allegedly parked. I thought it would be an interesting project for someone with the proper technological tools to take the picture and add a graphic of the "bloody glove" beside it. Key Asscrole

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Quotation for 5/23/97
by Rick Osborne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

________________________ R i c k O s b o r n e ________________________ Today's quote of the day seems only *slightly* appropriate for this list. :) >Before all else, be armed. >Machiavelli (1469-1527) _________ o s b o r n e @ g a t e w a y . g r u m m a n . c o m _________ If it weren't for doctrine, a lot of the world's religions would get along a lot better, because the core roots of their beliefs aren't that dissimilar, it's the interpretation and the rules that grew up around them that seem to cause all the trouble. J Michael Straczynski -- Creator of _Babylon_5_

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by Service＠iBase.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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No Subject
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's naieve to assume that Bell was even the target. World gov't/military machines learned their PR lessons in vietnam. As a part of a greater plan, it makes sense. If the stinkbomb allegations are fact, then they have enough to convict him on something minor like assault, possibly with intent or with a weapon. That would help, but wouldn't be required. They most definitely have posts with his name on them and people who would testify to his being of the libertatian/radical bent. Neither of those will likely hold up in court, but that's ok. The US is still reeling from OK City. Tried as it might, the US gov't couldn't find an outside enemy to pin it to. Whether Timmy did it or not is again irrelevant, they needed to find someone to blame and did. Now that it's the defenses turn, it would be useful to remind people of the scar--get someone for "conspiring" to do it again. Bring up that hatred again--can't hurt the prosecutions case. Markoff's and Littman's versions of the Mitnick saga are indeed most interesting. Shimomura's machine gets broken into and there was _something_ on there that _someone_ wanted back pretty badly. Does it matter if he did it? _Someone_ did, and that alone is usable. BTW, we get to wash the egg off the FBI. Sommi the "cyberstalker" goes unfound for months. Come on, we all know that no one could be that stupid. Ultimately, these add up in the mind of Joe public online. He's scared of hackers and organizations that promote libertarianism. "We can protect you from them if you let us." At this point the collective conscious doesn't care about losing what it percieves as a tiny amount of freedom to keep itself and it's offspring safe. And that's the game. The more a gov't oppresses, the more paranoid it needs to be. Becoming a police state is simple, becoming a welcomed police state takes careful planning. Prior planning prevents piss poor performance -- sparky

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Re: Spam laws threaten remailers?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Two possibilities: First, the law might not apply to remailer operators. It only applies to originators of messages. It might make it illegal to use remailers to send commercial messages, but that would apply to the users, not to the remailer operators. Even if it does apply to remailers, they can comply with it. Put "Advertisement" at the front of each subject line, and put the remailer operator's contact info in the message. Remailer operators are not generally hidden, so this does not hurt them any.

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