December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news > >propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are not > >at all uncommon. > > News propagation in seconds to your _local server_, or to _distant_ > servers? To some (perhaps many, certainly not all) distant servers, provided all the news servers in the path run appropriate software (designed for low latency propagation) and have reasonably high bandwidth Internet links. Disk to disk delays smaller than 1 second have been measured between news servers that use software such as nntplink or innfeed to send outgoing articles immediately. > The Usenet is thousands of news servers, maybe tens of thousands, and > news feeds take a while...small articles are mixed in with hundreds of > megabytes a day of binaries. A percolation process, as opposed to a > point-to-point process for e-mail. Right. And some of those news links are fast, while others are slow. If two sites happen to be connected by fast news links, it's quite possible for news between those sites to be faster than mail. --apb (Alan Barrett)

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Alan Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: >> obviously the message will flood the majordomo net before it floods >> the real usenet unless something is seriously broken). I replied: > Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news > propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are > not at all uncommon. Sorry, I misunderstood the earlier message. I thought that it referred to news propagation between a small set of hosts versus mail propagation between the same small set of mail/news hosts, and I did not see why it was obvious that mail would be faster than news. But actually the earlier message refered to news propagation over the whole planet versus mail propagation between a small set of hosts, in which case of course news will be slower. --apb (Alan Barrett)

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alt.cypherpunks.ebonics
by Alec 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Igor, A friend, who, in the CP tradition requested to remain anonymous, and I were doing an informal analysis of those subjects/topics which over the past year generated the most discussion and, by implication, interest on the CP list. Since the list at that time was reportedly unmoderated, we felt some weight should be given to members' interests/desires as measured by their posts, regardless of the applicability to the list topic. With the exceptions of AP (oh so clearly way off-topic), list censorship (too tedious), and remarks either questioning or affirming the sexuality/virility/femininity (or lack thereof ) of almost every CP subscriber, the topic which claimed the most bandwidth was Ebonics. It seemed to touch on several layers of CP interest: freedom of speech, obfuscation, tolerance, intolerance, phonetics, linguistics, race warfare, etc. You name it; just about every well-known c'punk jumped in to make some urbane statement on this, sadly, now dead and ignored issue. Nevertheless, the bandwidth was there! Note; any messages followed by Punctuation Art were excluded if they seemed to lack "dignity," for want of a better word. Based on the above stats (available from my friend on request), my anonymous friend and I request that you add Ebonics as an area of interest to Cypherpunks in your List Intro. Please judge this request on its merit and not on what you may think of me or my anonymous (asexual) friend personally, thereby, by that very action, initiating a New Order of Cypherpunks! Thanks for you consideration. More importantly, thank you for helping to keep this vibrant list alive. Alec (and friend) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 Comment: Message PGP 2.6.2. signed/encrypted. Public key available on request or from keyservers. iQCVAgUBMwnVrSKJGkNBIH7lAQEl9gP/XIujtLKrVf2l7MaR50rM/BO9wCkYQeHy 7UoISphHlxs8PScnxkw6PQsVHerd+FnxPJQ2xAnCa1gUujxuif8OrsYpInVcfEap 99KkC39DzAe+/zHrOR2Kt7MK+X8267oCIWl4Yt1VBkCSt8ruktCnIXF41ghyuHUt 3N7reRPx6Hs= =EMeF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:35 PM +0200 2/18/97, Alan Barrett wrote: >On 18 Feb 1997, Bryan Reece wrote: >> Filtering out other gateways' messages will reduce load at >> the possible expense of delay (assuming a smallish network of news >> servers that feed each other the list; obviously the message will >> flood the majordomo net before it floods the real usenet unless >> something is seriously broken). > >Why is it obvious that mail propagation will be faster than news >propagation? News propagation times of small numbers of seconds are not >at all uncommon. News propagation in seconds to your _local server_, or to _distant_ servers? Articles I post do indeed appear "immediately" on my local site, but certainly not so immediately on distant sites. The Usenet is thousands of news servers, maybe tens of thousands, and news feeds take a while...small articles are mixed in with hundreds of megabytes a day of binaries. A percolation process, as opposed to a point-to-point process for e-mail. And I know that my site sometimes does not see articles for tens of hours, even days, after the initial act of distribution. (Sometimes articles appear more than a week late...presumably they've been lost to mu site on some railroad siding someplace.) This is why people say "News is slower than mail." --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Military/Intelligence URL
by eickfarm＠alpha.shianet.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com> >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 03:22:32 -0500 >From: harka(a)nycmetro.com >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: Military/Intelligence URL >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Precedence: bulk >X-UIDL: b0eef8d389443636415db00da7508d3f > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Here an page, that deals with various intelligence and military >institutions... > > > In> Subject: GOVT> AJAX, Government and Military Intelligence > > In> http://204.180.198.56:80/ajax/ajax.htm > > In> United States and International Government Military and Intelligence > In> Agency Access > > In> Certain Locations Or Sections Thereof May Be Closed To > In> Unauthorized Use. > In> PLEASE READ ACCESS WARNINGS, IF ANY, AND ABIDE BY THEM. > In> (If You Prefer A Frameless Environment, Click HERE.) > In> Last update: 7 FEBRUARY 1997. All accesses verified at > In> time of inclusion. > > In> CIA Central Intelligence Agency > In> DIA Defense Intelligence Agency > In> NRO National Reconnaissance Office > In> NSA National Security Agency > In> SS Secret Service > In> USCSOI U.S. Customs Service Office of Investigation > > In> ATF Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms > In> BOP Federal Bureau of Prisons > In> CID U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command > In> COURTS U.S. Federal Courts > In> FBI Federal Bureau of Investigation > In> FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network > In> FLETC Federal Law Enforcement Training Center > In> MARSHALS U.S. Marshals Service > In> NIJ National Institute of Justice > In> ACC Air Combat Command > In> AFSPC Air Force Space Command > In> BMDO Ballistic Missile Defense Organization > In> DEFENSE Defense Department > In> DISA Defense Information Systems Agency > In> DRMS Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service > In> DTIC Defense Technical Information Center > In> JCS Joint Chiefs of Staff > In> NAVWAN Naval Aviation Systems Team Wide Area Network > In> NAWCWPNS Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division > In> NSWC Naval Surface Warfare Center > In> USAFA United States Air Force Academy > > In> AHPCRC Army High Performance Computing Research Center > In> ARPA Advanced Research Projects Agency > In> LABLINK U.S. Department of Defense Laboratory System > In> NRL The Naval Research Laboratory RL > In> USAF Rome Laboratory for C41 Technology > In> USACIL U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory > > In> NATGUARD Army and Air National Guards > In> USA United States Army > In> USAF United States Air Force > In> USCG United States Coast Guard > In> USMC United States Marine Corps > In> USN United States Navy > > In> EPA U.S. Environmental Protection Agency > In> FAA Federal Aviation Administration Technical Center > In> FCC Federal Communications Commission > In> FTC Federal Trade Commission > In> NMFS National Marine Fisheries Service > In> NRC Nuclear Regulatory Commission > In> SEC Securities and Exchange Commission > In> CDC Centers for Disease Control and Prevention > In> CENSUS U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of the Census > In> CONGRESS U.S. House of Representatives > In> CUSTOMS U.S. Customs Service > In> DOE U.S. Department of Energy National Laboratories > In> & Programs > In> EXECUTIVE The White House > In> FDIC Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation > In> FEMA Federal Emergency Management Agency > In> FMS Financial Management Service > In> GPO U.S. Government Printing Office > In> GSA U.S. General Services Administration > In> HHS U.S. Department of Health and Human Services > In> HPCC NOAA High Performance Computing and > In> Communications IRS Internal Revenue Service > In> JUSTICE Justice Department > In> NARA National Archives and Records Administration > In> NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration > In> NCDC National Climatic Data Center > In> NIMH National Institute of Mental Health > In> NOAA National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration > In> NSF National Science Foundation > In> NTIS National Technical Information Service > In> SBA Small Business Administration > In> SEL Space Environment Laboratory > In> STATE State Department > In> TREASURY Treasury Department > In> USCODE U.S. House of Representatives > In> Internet Law Library U.S. Code > > In> CANADA > In> CSE Communications Security Establishment > In> CISC Criminal Intelligence Service Canada > In> CSIS Canadian Security Intelligence Service > In> SIRC Security Intelligence Review Committee > In> UNITED KINGDOM CIM Central Intelligence Machinery > > In> CANADA > In> DJC Department of Justice of Canada > In> FORENSIC The Forensic Web > In> RCMP Royal Canadian Mounted Police > In> SGC Solicitor General of Canada > > In> UNITED NATIONS UNCPCJ United Nations Crime Prevention & > In> Criminal Justice > > In> CANADA > In> CFC Canadian Forces College > In> DREO Defense Research Establishment, Ottawa > > In> UNITED KINGDOM > In> ARMY The British Army > In> CDA Centre for Defence Analysis > In> DRA Defence Research Agency > > In> NATO North Atlantic Treaty Organization > In> SACLANT Supreme Allied Commander, Atlantic > In> SHAPE Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe > > In> BECCA Business Espionage Controls & Countermeasures > In> Association > In> CRYPTOLOG Internet Guide to Cryptography > In> DCJFTF Washington, D.C. Joint Fugitive Task Force > In> WANTED "The World's Most Wanted" (Fugitives and > In> Unsolved Crimes) > > >Ciao > >Harka > >/*************************************************************/ >/* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ >/* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ >/* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ >/* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ >/* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ >/*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ >/* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ >/* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ >/*************************************************************/ > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQEVAgUBMv7aGjltEBIEF0MBAQF1CAf+MyLUa3sBKCAuxhzCZ0tQqP3jxAjQpIuV >WdsTCW9L3jPwLdZ9BmqeqAuaIU4JQzCpEx5bgKdzGThF5mG2U4XaeOcD4gBpWZyz >sYOZzcoYNe6CX6m55a9UqiEpZu4mK9TBkO7OXSfV3J3CygVAbo7zjC+lW2r7L9F8 >3vTqrxbOCb3SMEl4k3L5QVtKOGVSh7MMIesBtmQ2SNhhvSfrdFYBnCcvtmnvYi8j >6YpI5wrkiNzueuFwoD9YoRR7UugE5kcCyJ3FFHym7RzQUL8XsHRhsk1XoTBHvXni >2Tfno7DH5+T4FuVZTWeaAVhD7OTfK2n0lBCf0x2I5F1iEUurbdddig== >=s4om >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption... > > > > >------------------------------ **********WHY AM I RECEIVING 346 MESSAGES THAT ORIGINATED WITH CYPHERPUNKS(a)TOAD.COM? I AM UNABLE TO USE MY E=MAIL BECAUSE OF THE MESSAGES THAT HAVE ACCUMULATED. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MESSAGES REFERENCES YOUR ORGANIZATION. I HAVE NEVER ACCESSED ANYTHING THAT HAD TO DO WITH YOUR GROUP. PLEASE ASSIST ME IN REMOVING THE ROUTING OF THESE MESSAGES TO MY E-MAIL. OTHERWISE, I WILL BE FORCED TO CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO THE INTERNET. THANK YOU. EICKFARM(a)SHIANET.ORG

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Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

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Re: Address -- Invalid (was Re: message to USSA Senate) (fwd)
by Lynne L. Harrison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alexandr(a)win.tue.nl, cypherpunks(a)toad.com, home(a)collegehill.com Date: Tue Feb 18 13:49:43 1997 I checked with the people at College Hill Internet by forwarding your msg to them to which they replied. **N.B. - College Hill did my page so I know them to be reputable. Long story short, they worked on a web page for a particular political campaign and, during the process of doing the web consulting, they briefly set up an e-mail account for them on their server. Since then, they have been treated to a regular supply of spam from various persons who think that is still the Senator's address. They've received threatening spam (about 200 hundred copies of it) which was bounced from them back to senders who in this case weren't even the senders, etc. etc. etc. The headers reflect that they've been forged. Understandably, College Hill is concerned that, those people who might not understand the headers that well, will conclude College Hill as being the spammers - which could damage their reputation. Hope this answers (at least part of) your question. Lynne -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMwn5yD5A4+Z4Wnt9AQG5GQP+Nlf5REseGJ3Nij3Xq76A7Lkcv38vbkS8 iE0XUyJIzZ+B9sixuBHRYCeTHiX8hFRUUMgOCZWFqoXYjN3JWvIbz8W3hFV0LZtf oz7NBE3WEeM6jzDPZlRN/KDiNoMgsPDLgcP0+3P9PbOFln39jc+vvWDjK0uKl3om YBQ7DhCyccs= =PtAp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Stop sending me your shit
by Robert Nadra 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Get me off your list or else ..... . Get me out your fuckin list assholes.

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Interesting question: how to safely keep passwords online
by Ed.Falk＠Eng.Sun.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's a question that's been on my mind lately: Often, you like to keep external passwords stored on your personal computer. As a quick example, Eudora will remember your POP password for you so you don't have to enter it every time. Obviously, Eudora keeps this on disk somewhere. The question is: is there any (relatively) safe way to do this? Obviously, Eudora encrypt the saved password with some secret key, but this key could probably be found by examining the code. A slight improvement would be for Eudora to generate an encryption key on the fly based on some external system state, but this is also susceptible to reverse-engineering. -ed falk

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Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Vin McLellan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Marshall Clow wrote: >Let's not start this.... <snip> >If we are going to discuss privacy, that's fine. >It we are going to discuss abortion, there are better fora. Right, Marshall. I was attempting to respond directly to Tim's comment, but I too have no desire to let the end of C'punks be yet another sinkhole Abortion Debate. Foil at guard. I'll subside and let any riptide response roll over me;-). (Jeeze! Anyone else feel like these are the Final Days, like when a company goes bankrupt, or graduation day or the like?? I hope one of these C'punkish alternatives will provide an opportunity for some of the same thoughtful and stimulating engagements that toad.com hosted.) Respect to all, pro-choice and pro-life, _Vin

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