December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

hacking
by Marc Lawrence 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

i'm a new minor hacker so do you think you could teach me a few things so i could get started on some small-time hacking?

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Re: RRE: Cybersitter
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 07:15 PM 2/14/97 EDT, E. Allen Smith wrote: >From: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" 14-FEB-1997 05:21:41.54 >To: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" >CC: >Subj: Cybersitter > >[Forwarded with permission.] > [snip] >Wallace says Solid Oak responded by adding his Webzine to its block >list. Learning of this, Wallace wrote Milburn and Solid Oak tech >support. > >"I pointed out that _The Spectacle_ does not fit any of their published >criteria for blocking a site," he says. "I received mail in return >demanding that I cease writing to them and calling my mail 'harassment' >-- with a copy to the postmaster at my ISP." > >Kanter acknowledges this. "He spoke to us more than once or twice -- he >continued to send mail -- mail like that is considered 'not wanted' and >is automatically sent back." Kanter has sent mail like this on a first message. I friend of mine who writes for a local computer magazine (Computer Bits) wrote to Solid Oak with a critical letter and got the same treatment. Nothing addressing any of the criticisms about the software or the company, just a nasty-gram to him and his postmaster. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAwUBMwYhcOQCP3v30CeZAQE0zwf/QH6PaErjf7osoEvTd2rbRMFkO//tacAi iBGvBvVFfmmOjOulX+pc78BziT2wAlENRY2qDoMzf8GWAx6OBesgG+2QhpTqIuXb AxFzoVLuQBqWMRGxc+xeS8z1r7jBGcs9RSpw4al1dMecVze5WCMIsOX1MMA1CsaC ZQ3ph8kYGEhz69BagmEY94nL1ERbpCnPmeY4YaNAi+7obTJe88ypwyqE86eRbBBh hMc1H+4OKzs9ZU7Wi5bTcYLgjwEC+YAnK19NE9ZRNKSqq2CCFi3nv6o6IX9iUtLZ Ptie4DMvz2MSymBYWDPap0rwTLxPK+SOw31I5rUzPdpyA0gjaj/7/Q== =kkJ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Here I can agree, I personally discriminate on the basis of sex, not > > in that I believe women inferior to men but rather that I believe > > each sex better suited to different tasks and vocations. > > That is not, however, to say that I believe women should be prevented > > from taking up lines of work that men traditionally hold. > > They are free to do so, but as in the example you give later > > I would feel uncomfortable having my car serviced by a woman. > > <flame-retardant suit on> > > Normally I would ignore this sort of comment (which probably belongs in > some soc. newsgroup), but I feel obliged to point out that: > > - The female <mechanic / scientist / engineer>, in addition to passing the > same exams as her male classmates, has probably had to put up with a fair > load of B.S. questioning her right and ability to be there. The ones that > keep at it long enough to graduate are the ones that *really* want to do > whatever it is, and IMHO are more likely to try harder. Not my point, I didn`t say I would refuse, as in my example, to have my car serviced by a woman, rather, that I would not feel comfortable doing so. This is not prejudice, it is a statistical judgement based on the fact that, as a percentage, I know few women who are competent car mechanics but I know a number of men who, by the same criteria, I would call competent. > Chicken and Egg: How much of "each sex [is] better suited to different > tasks" is due to little girls being pulled away from the Lego and toy > trucks, and encouraged to play with Barbies? Being told that they are > *pretty* not *smart* as a form of approval? Very much so, I did not intend, even though my post may have appeared that way, for one minute to suggest that women were *unable* to carry out certain tasks, just that they seem less suited to certain vocations that others. For example, I know a number of good female History or English students but very few good female mathematics or computer science students. This is not, I believe, because women are not "suited" to computer science rather that they have never been encouraged at high school etc. to learn about such subjects which are seen as male preserves. I wholeheartedly believe this should not be the case, and my original post may have been misleading, I just believe that in the current system very few women do become good at science/technical subjects. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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cypherpunks@toad.com
by sheldon＠sdsu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm a very long term lurker writing to thank you for hosting the mailing list. It was surprising that the list, if not the community, was as vulnerable to twits like Vulis as it appears. It's a valuable lesson. When cypherpunks rise from these ashes I hope that designers of alternatives will remember the Alamo so to speak. -- sheldon glass | Plauger's Dogma sglass(a)mail.sdsu.edu | No program may leave its sanity #include <std.disclaimer> | at the mercy of its input.

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Re: Welcome
by codehead＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:39:28 GMT > From: List-Owner <nobody(a)diacenter.org> > Subject: Welcome > Reply-to: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Welcome to Dia's Press Releases mailing list. > > You will be sent press releases about Dia's exhibitions and other programs. > > If you have questions or would like to request more press information, please > contact Jennie Prebor at jennie(a)diacenter.org or (212) 989-5566 x 118. > > If you would like to stop receiving mailings, please send an email to list-owner(a)diacenter.org with the subject line "Remove me from Dia News." > > PLEASE NOTE: You may receive more than one message indicating a succesful subscription. If you joined more than one of Dia's mailing lists, you will receive one message for each list you joined. > > Thank you for your interest in Dia Center for the Arts. > > Dia Center for the Arts > 548 West 22nd Street > New York, NY 10011 > http://www.diacenter.org > > Here it is: Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com> Received: from sirius.infonex.com (majordom(a)sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) by ixmail5.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id HAA28799; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA02528 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rigel.infonex.com (root(a)rigel.infonex.com [206.170.114.3]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA02516 for <cypherpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com>; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by rigel.infonex.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06934 for <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net>; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA23217; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from diacenter.org (diacenter.org [204.168.147.10]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23200; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by diacenter.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA03924 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:39:28 GMT Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:39:28 GMT From: List-Owner <nobody(a)diacenter.org> Message-Id: <199702151039.KAA03924(a)diacenter.org> Subject: Welcome Apparently-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com X-List: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net X-PMFLAGS: 34603136 0 Welcome to Dia's Press Releases mailing list. You will be sent press releases about Dia's exhibitions and other programs. If you have questions or would like to request more press information, please contact Jennie Prebor at jennie(a)diacenter.org or (212) 989-5566 x 118. If you would like to stop receiving mailings, please send an email to list-owner(a)diacenter.org with the subject line "Remove me from Dia News." PLEASE NOTE: You may receive more than one message indicating a succesful subscription. If you joined more than one of Dia's mailing lists, you will receive one message for each list you joined. Thank you for your interest in Dia Center for the Arts. Dia Center for the Arts 548 West 22nd Street New York, NY 10011 http://www.diacenter.org

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Re: More on digital postage
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:33 PM 2/15/97 -0600, snow wrote: >Mr. May wrote: >> At 11:40 AM -0600 2/15/97, snow wrote: >> > That is a ridiculous argument. The door to my home is connected >> >to the street,m and I know full well that that makes it easy for anyone >> >to come wandering in to my home. Is it legal, just because I have my >> >home hooked to the street, for someone to come in and help themselves to >> >a beer out of my fridge? >> >> The proper parallel is to _knocking on the door_. Talking about "unwanted >> phone calls" or "unwanted faxes" as being equivalent to entering a house >> and wandering around is incorrect. > > With phone calls, yes. With unwanted faxes no. With Phone Calls, >and knocks on the door I have the option of simply not answering. Faxes >(in certain enviroments) you can't do that with. That's a technlogical problem, and deserves a technological solution. > >> Our society fairly reasonably allows tort relief for, say, having one's >> doorbell rung frequently or at odd hours. On the fax issue, similar tort >> relief could be obtained if a person or business was truly "under attack." >> (Purists, like me, would probably prefer technological solutions even in >> these cases. Leave a phone on answering machine mode, only switch on the >> fax mode when a fax is expected, etc.) > > Or simply a societal acceptance of retaliation(sp?) Someone who >constantly wakes you up in the middle of the night, well you just arrange >it so they get no sleep. Well, I've proposed such a system before... >> These tort actions are a far cry from proposals that anyone whose knock on >> the door, or phonecall, or e-mail, or fax is subject to criminal >> prosecution under proposed new laws. >> (I think the courts are already clogged enough, and I have faith that no >> court in the land will accept a case where no real harm was done. A friend >> of mine got mailbombed with 25,000 e-mail messages in one day, shutting >> down his account until the mess could be cleaned up, and it's not even >> likely he'll ever get any relief.) > > I (I think like you) feel that almost no one will get convicted >of these "crimes" unless the attacker simply goes too far. Which is why my first choice is, uh, and alternative method of "justice." Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn wrote: > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Dale Thorn wrote: > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Dave Hayes wrote: > > > > > Ok. I'll "put up". > > > If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have > > > tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited) > > > was more ideal than a newsgroup. If this is what Dave is offering, > > > I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it. Then again, they > > > took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited. > > > > I think that the ideas of a distributed list and the idea of > > alt.cypherpunks are both good and these two mediums complement > > each other. > > I can certainly accept this, but it would be nice if someone summarizes > these feeds every now and then, as time to check them all out is very > limited. > I agree entirely. - Igor.

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by ISP_Ratings 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Against Moderation wrote: > > dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) writes: > >I believe homophobia is a great way to bring out the censors in >people. However, inducing censorship is only part of fighting it. >You also need respectable people to some in, argue cogently against >the dangers of censorship, perhaps even get some extremely reasonable >articles suppressed, and then spread the word about it. I find the >freedom-knights tactics' extremely lacking in this second, "clean up >and analyze the mess" phase. > Yes but the process is a very long term one--you seemed focused on this specific instance. I'm especially interested in the demise of plug pulling sys admins for example--they should be hung by their balls from the highest pole--the kind of net.slime EFF protects. As for analysis and cleanup that's a bit easier to contain on a list as opposed to the usenet at large. >As a recent example illustrates well, Vulis did a nice job of inducing >censorship on cypherpunks. However, I think most peoples' opinions >didn't really turn, or at least people didn't realize how serious >things were and didn't really care, until Tim May [someone the many >freedom-knights hate] started criticizing this censorship in extremely >reasonable messages that were suppressed from both the -edited and >-flames mailing list. And for that to happen vivid examples of such censorship had to occur and a snake was exposed as being a snake. Seems like it worked extremely well to me. It also appears that the cleanup you rightly refer to is happening as a natural progression--same will be true hopefully on a broader scale on usenet when others personally get a taste of the censorship that is lurking behind every corner. And for those who jumped on the bandwagon because Mr. May was being censored as oppossed to Dr. Vulis--they are sad people indeed. Steve

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Re: anonymity and e-cash
by Mark Grant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, Hal Finney wrote: > A simple idea we have discussed for full anonymity uses the idea of > exchanging coins at the bank. You make an anonymous connection to > the bank, supply some ecash you have received along with some blinded > new ecash. The bank verifies that the ecash is good and signs your > blinded ecash, sending it back to you. You unblind it and have good, > fresh smelling ecash which you can keep, spend, or later deposit in > your account. Isn't this the way that 'Magic Money' works? You don't have to open an account at the bank, you simply exchange the cash you receive for new cash which you can then spend. Mark |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| |Mark Grant M.A., U.L.C. EMAIL: mark(a)unicorn.com | |WWW: http://www.unicorn.com/ MAILBOT: bot(a)unicorn.com | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn allegedly said: > [...] > > If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have > tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited) > was more ideal than a newsgroup. If this is what Dave is offering, > I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it. Then again, they > took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited. Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is a great person, still represents a single point of control and a single point of failure. A distributed mailing list has a potential for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of viewpoints. Furthermore a distributed mailing list is an interesting minor technical problem, and a good solution could have wide applicability. So I think that people would like to get the distributed list going... -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com,kc@llnl.gov the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: 5A 16 DA 04 31 33 40 1E 87 DA 29 02 97 A3 46 2F

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