December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Fighting the cybercensor
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell wrote: > At 08:02 PM 2/1/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > > I also think that the other list members involved in this thread are > >'nobodies', but I was too polite to say anything. > > It's odd that you would say this. I get that impression ("nobodies") about > practically EVERY subject discussed here. Why name this particular one, as > if it were somehow special? Jim, "You're 'nobody', till 'somebody' loves you..." Everybody has their own prediliction as to what interests them, and what is 'frivilous' on the list. Someone, in private email, mentioned that they felt that 60% of the posts were 'uninteresting'. I replied that this seemed to be a close approximation of many list members' beliefs, but that, if we all moderated/censored out 'our' 60% of 'uninteresting' posts before the list was sent out, that there would be precious little left. I don't know if you recognized my comment as humor, since I have an aversion to using 'happy faces' (the result of a childhood trauma), but I just love to poke fun at the plethora of personas on the list who seem to believe that anything outside of their immediate scope of interest is somehow 'unworthy' of being posted the list. By the way, in order to prevent this post from going to the 'flames' list, I will NOT say that you are a low-life, scum-sucking Nazi piece of shit. I will likewise refrain from suggesting that your mother wears army boots, you are a child-pornographer, an imbecile, and a pervert, or that you beat your wife and children regularly. By golly, I think I'm 'getting the hang of' this new, improved, Politically Correct, nicey-nice list format. Toto

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Re: Cyphernomicon by Tim May
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

That question is one for Tim to answer, but I should point out that philosophical anarchists are not necessarily opposed to rules, just government rules -- which this moderation policy clearly is not. -Declan On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Dale Thorn wrote: > Toto wrote: > > 3.5.1 Contrary to what people sometimes claim, there is no ruling > > clique of Cypherpunks. Anybody is free to do nearly anything, > > just not free to commit others to course of action, or claim > > to speak for the "Cypherpunks" as a group (and this last > > point is unenforceable except through reputation and social > > repercussions). > > 3.6.3 "Why isn't the list moderated?" > > ...hardly consistent with many of our anarchist leanings, is it? > > - "No, please, let's not become a 'moderated' newsgroup. This > > would be the end of freedom! > > Is this why T.C. May hasn't posted in quite a while? > > >

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Re: GSM technology
by Murray Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:37:38 -0800, Lucky Green wrote: >At 09:43 AM 1/20/97 -0500, Nurdane Oksas wrote: >> Does anyone use ADSL lines? or are they still very expensive? > >I just had a very interesting talk with somebody from Northern Telecom (Canada's Phone Company). NorTel has apparently skipped ISDN and is now deploying ADSL. Some areas already have access to ADSL at, can you believe this, $60/month. > I'm not sure about Nortel but ADSL is availible in Calgary from CadVision. http://www.cadvision.ca It's not cheap. BCTel is yapping about offering it by the end of the year.

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NOISE.SYS Home Page
by Rob 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I now have an under-construction home page for NOISE.SYS, in case you're interested: http://www.asb.com/usr/wlkngowl/software.htm#noise (NOISE.SYS is a crypto-RNG device for DOS boxes.) Rob ----- "The word to kill ain't dirty | Robert Rothenburg (WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com) I used it in the last line | http://www.asb.com/usr/wlkngowl/ but use a short word for lovin' | Se habla PGP: Reply with the subject and dad you wind up doin' time." | 'send pgp-key' for my public key.

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RE: Libel, Times v. Sullivan
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Greg Broiles Since we've now got Jim Bell arguing that it's obvious that a free and open society must tolerate anything which might be defamatory, and Jim Choate arguing that it's obvious that a free and open society cannot tolerate anything which might be defamatory, I think I'm going to wander away from this discussion confident that the answer is, at least, nonobvious. :) .................................................................. Heh - Jim B. and Jim C.: the Yin & Yang of Society At Large. What could a discussion between them produce. .. Blanc

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Re: "Secret" Postal Device stolen
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David Lesher <wb8foz(a)nrk.com> writes: > USPS uses key locks seemingly designed by Ben Franklin himself. > Look at them someday. FedEx boxes used to have Simplex 926 > 5 pushbutton ""locks"" if you stretch the point. Don't let the old-fashioned look deceive you. Most mail storage boxes use lever tumbler locks (similar to what's used in safe deposit vaults, though obviously the mailbox locks have a flimsier plug). Lever tumbler locks are in general much harder to pick than pin tumbler locks (the kind on most doors).

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Re: If guilty of a lesser crime, you can be sentenced for a greater
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, rex wrote: > Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> wrote: > > >If you want to look at it a different way, if you are involved with a drug > >offense and are not using a weapon, you'll get a lower sentence than a > >full fledged drug crime. It's a step in the right direction - i.e. away > >from manadatory sentencing of a flat time period for a crime regardless of > >circumstances. > > But Putra got the same sentence she would have gotten had she been > convicted on both charges. The fact that she was acquitted meant nothing. That this is true once, does not make it so in all cases. You also lose sight of the general scheme of things. That the sentence imposed may have the same maximum sentence with sentencing enhancements and a lesser included offense as with conviction of a "great offense" means nothing with regard to the validity of sentencing enhancements. That theft and low level bank fraud have the same penality when theft is enhanced with a "victim was infirm or helpless" or a "firearm was used in furtherance of the crime" could as easily reflect a lack of vigor and spite in the prosecution of bank fraud as it could reflect severe vigor and spite in the prosecution of theft. Please note that the difference between: "But he got the same sentence as he would have if he was convicted of carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." and "But he got the same sentence as he would have is he was not convicted of carrying a gun in furtherance of the crime." is subtle at best. Next time don't get caught stealing with a gun nearby. -- Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures Finger for Public Key Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern Vote Monarchist Switzerland

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Re: Free & Open Society & toleration
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate allegedly said: > > It has been asserted that I am claiming that a free and open society should [...] > > This is not my case at all. I hold that [...] > means do I hold [...] > I hold [...] > worthless. I DO hold [...] > all speech. I further hold [...] > I further hold [...] > I further hold [...] Whew! That's a lot of holding, my friend. I've heard that prunes help. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com,kc@llnl.gov the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: 5A 16 DA 04 31 33 40 1E 87 DA 29 02 97 A3 46 2F

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Re: How I Would Ban Strong Crypto in the U.S.
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:58 AM 7/15/96 -0400, about six months ago, when Clipper III was new, Raph Levien wrote: >1. The battle over whether applications can contain strong encryption >algorithms has basically been lost. For example, SSL-enabled >applications are widely available over the world, thanks in large part >to the work of Eric Young. The same will happen for any other encryption >protocol that catches on. Unfortunately, the Government hasn't given up on this one; Peter Gutman's recent articles on export policy in New Zealand and Australia suggest that Our Public Servants are trying an end-run by getting those countries to stop export and development by productive crypto authors, targeting the toolkits that are being widely used inside and outside the US. >2. The battle for key management has not yet been fought. Yeah. I haven't heard much from Clipper III recently, since they've been trumpeting Clipper IV "Key Recovery" recently, but that doesn't mean it's not going on. Unlike politican efforts such as Key Recovery, infrastructure attacks such as PKI may require long-term technical development - the Cooperative Research and Development Alliances (CRADAs) are not just to bribe otherwise-valuable companies to stay out of the way, they're to do things that may be sprung on us later; I'd predict this coming summer. For instance, back in July, John Young quoted a Business Wire article about = Toronto -- Certicom Corp. a leading information security = company, today announced that it will participate in an = initiative by the U.S. Commerce Department's National = Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) which will = lead to the development of the elements of a public key = infrastructure (PKI). Certicom are the folks who do Elliptic Curve Cryptosystems, which haven't been used much due to patent questions and RSA's dominance, but which allow much shorter public keys and may have some speed advantages, both of which are quite important for smartcard use. >3. Anybody can write an application that supports strong encryption >algorithms. Witness SSH, a very impressive and useful program, which was >basically done by one person, Tatu Ylonen. However, building a key >management infrastructure will take lots of money, hard work, and >cooperation. .... >4. Thus, the best leverage for the TLAs to win is to guide the >development of a key management infrastructure with the following >property: if you don't register your key, you can't play. I believe that >this is the true meaning of the word "voluntary:" you're free to make >the choice not to participate. .. >6. Export is a two player game. The other country has to allow import of >the stuff, too. If the Burns bill passes, the "administration" would >strong-arm other countries to prohibit import of strong crypto, still >leaving US developers with no market. It failed, and they've now got an Ambassador strong-arming other countries to prohibit export. >7. Building this stuff is too much of a task for the TLAs. They tried it >with Clipper, and it failed. They hoped that building the Tessera card >would be enough - that once they threw it over the wall, it would be >eagerly snapped up by industry. >8. Thus, they're going to cajole, bribe, and coerce software companies >to play along. This fact is quite nakedly exposed in the document (good >thing the injunction against the CDA is still in force :-). Yeah. Clipper IV is getting a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon to get export permission for their 56-bit software. Many of the people who are most vocal about it are the usual suspects anyway, but it's closer to commercial usability that industry's more cooperative this round, especially with more Internet money fever. >> Don't be fooled. >Who? Us cypherpunks? >Raph :-) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: Key Security Question
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> writes: > > On the other hand, if the "repairman" replaced your pgp executable > > with version 2.6.3kgb, which uses your hashed passphrase as the > > session key, you're hosed. Or if he installed a keystroke sniffer, > > or added a small radio transmitter to your keyboard, or whatever. > > Depends on your threat model. If you need to be paranoid, > > they've already gotten you.... > > If you're really paranoid, you can boot from a clean floppy and > reinstall everything from your backup tapes. You do have a > contingency plan in case your hard disk goes bad, or gets a > virus, don't you? Well, if you're in doubt, exercise it. And what if the repairman replaces BIOS ROM chips with KGBios? - Igor.

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