December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: unimbibing
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I have been trying to get off this list for nearly a week now. The instructions given in the welcome message don't work. > Get me off this list now.! > I joined to learn about cryptography, not listen to some socially retarded juveniles argue over who's got the biggest dick. I participate in this list to discuss cryptography and related issues. If you have been reading posts discussing large genitalia you are probably confusing list traffic with private email from your gay friends. Here are instructions telling you how to unsubscribe: To unsubscribe from the cypherpunks mailing list: Send a message to majordomo(a)toad.com with the *MESSAGE BODY* reading exactly as follows: unsubscribe cypherpunks you(a)your.domain.com Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: faulty moderation software: duplicate messages
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970207:1759 "Mark M." <markm(a)voicenet.com> said: +All messages with "Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com" are +received from the flames list. The difference between the unedited and +moderated lists is that the moderated list changes the message ID, +appending toad.com, and deletes all received headers before +"majordom(a)localhost.*by toad.com". None of the messages are being +doubled; this is just the result of buggy software if you receive both the unedited and the censored plus flames, each message should be doubled --unedited sends all messages, but fails to always mark them in sender -basically, you need to key on the fact the Message-ID is NOT ....(a)toad.com for the unedited file no, I dont have a problem with that, it is just stupid on toad's part (John?) to not correctly identify the pass through messages with 'Sender: owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com' --a few are, but the vast majority are still shipped out as 'Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com' (and the 'Received' chain as I pointed out in my original post). to me that is piss poor list management. unfortunately, I can not use procmail at this point on my mail reader platform, but the internal filters are multilevel and do allow enough flexibility. I use procmail extensively on my host for autobots, spam filtering, objectional posters filtering, etc. I think you probably have an error in your procmail script as to sending 'unedited' to flames. the theory stated is: mainline (censored) + flames == unedited but I will not test it since I prefer to read/respond off line with MR/2 than Pine online. I will request Nick Knight for the construction of his folders (except he has no lock mechanism) and I might write a PPP POP3 mail recovery program, pass it through procmail which passes it to a function to write it to MR/2's folders. however you slice it, censorship on a freedom of speech list just does not make it and we make fools of ourselves if we think otherwise. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMvxHR704kQrCC2kFAQFQyAP+LXpWz1bFoGAs2tu+stR4YD8OBbRPv8cO /vLuf/oB6auYCI3I4mx1raPEFmg0Ul7dKf7Z9hINukkLbjMQtK4exCSlXeDK7kyz 2N6IbUYviauCHr2CM5w/kZ6GBKiajCfa+QysoKLIfrHGr35WUrSY+as/5cJ4XtYQ c+yw9WLbIuk= =B67K -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: censorship and headers
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- the "message" example which follows is obviously a message which should have been destinated for owner-cypherpunks-flame. there is absolutely no indication of the differentation and the header shows: Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com when it should have shown: Sender: owner-cypherpunks-edited(a)toad.com let's put it this way, if cp is to be censored, might as well do the job correctly as this message was dumped into the main list. regardless, censoring what is supposed to be the free speech defenders of the online world is a poor example of our toleration for differing viewpoints, regardless of their alledged stupidity or off-topic value, or lack of value. So far, cypherpunks is showing less tolerance for freedom of speech that the United State Supreme Court. You all know something I dont? or do I need to start cleaning and oiling real soon? --attila +Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) + by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10780 + for <attila(a)primenet.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:23:55 -0700 (MST) +Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id +EAA21727; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from +sirius.infonex.com (root(a)sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) by +toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA21718; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 +04:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.infonex.net +(dfbfl4-37.gate.net [199.227.103.228]) by sirius.infonex.com +(8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26850 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Fri, 7 +Feb 1997 04:19:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: +<199702071219.EAA26850(a)sirius.infonex.com> Date: Friday, 07 Feb 97 +07:19:25 EST +To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com +From: winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net (WinSock Remailer) +X-Mailer: WinSock Remailer Version ALPHA1.3 +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: This message is NOT from winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net. It +was X-Comments: remailed by an automated anonymous remailer. +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: SEND ALL COMPLAINTS AND BLOCKING REQUESTS DIRECTLY TO: +X-Comments: REOP-L(a)cornell.edu <Remailer Operator's Network> +X-Comments: - +X-Comments: WinSock Remailer (winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net) +X-Comments: http://www.cyberpass.net/~winsock/ X-Comments: - +X-Remailer-Setup: Maximum Message Size -- None +X-Remailer-Setup: Reordering is ON, Mail Poolsize is 3 +X-Remailer-Setup: News Posting DISABLED +X-Remailer-Setup: Subject Header KILLED +X-Remailer-Setup: Logging OFF +X-Remailer-Setup: All messages must be PGP encrypted +Subject: Re: Sphere packings +Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com +Precedence: bulk +X-UIDL: e2bae6a70f8b97f156939d711ba124ba -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMvxVZr04kQrCC2kFAQG7TwP/XI3wSXvMUgYdIqyjrXUN5CT5W/XVONqF jOfGDNxeTj+UbvIGuMzfcdxZB0X2lMCm8IptXncDfQgULIt6Fex9xfBmrlr1F12G xdnZKwoU9QUga27UX1Lyfw3V8uJYgx10h1o1/54CPAoFJVBhWwA5aI6RL/7hvoeI E/l3Tx9iIyE= =djYo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Successfully Routing Around Censorship In Italy
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In Cu Digest, #9.07 -- see Cu Digest Homepage: http://www.soci.niu.edu/~cudigest/ * is a nice article on how an Italian mailing list was blocked by the University bureaucracy. LISA (Lista Italiana Sull'Accesso a Internet) is "an unmoderated area devoted to discussion about social, cultural and economic aspects related to the development of the Internet in Italy." Two days later they were up and running on a machine in Utah. > Choosing censorship instead of an open debate is > something we will never be willing to silently accept. > Laura Caponi > Owner of LISA > Lista Italiana Sull'Accesso a Internet * This issue isn't on the web page quite yet.... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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WANTED: Tolerant, anonymity-friendly news admins 1.03
by aga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 7 Feb 1997, lcs Remailer Administrator wrote: > aga <aga(a)dhp.com> writes: > > > Who attacked the network and for what reason? > > Well, as best I can tell I've gotten caught in the crossfire of a > spam/"anti-spam" spam war. People are forging articles through > anonymous remailers to solicit spam to non-spamming customers of > "spam-friendly" ISPs, in the hopes of driving those customers away. > In other words, a lot of articles are being posted to groups like > alt.make.money.fast with headers like: > > From: customer(a)isp.under.attack (My^ISP^spams^I^should^switch) > > Then the spam bots collect the addresses, and send lots of mail like > > To: customer(a)isp.under.attack (My^ISP^spams^I^should^switch) > Subject: Great opportunity!!! > > My^ISP^spams^I^should^switch, > > I saw your post the other day, and have an oportunity for you that's > so good you can't miss it... > > It would be amusing if it weren't causing me hassles. Ultimately, > however, the person doing this is clearly trying to get ISPs to set > more restrictive policies about what mail/news customers can send, Well, that is bullshit, and that person needs to be stopped. Anyone trying to get more restrictive policies needs weeded out and identified, and then dealt with. > while knocking off a few anonymous remailers and mail2news gateways in > the process. > > > Well, just who is cutting you off and for what reason? > > And what is their telephone number? > > At issue here are a number of complicated high-level administrative > issues. It's not just that someone is trying to pull the plug on me. > I've been asked by someone who is not the one getting the phone calls > or exerting anti-mail2news pressure if I would stop using MIT news > servers. The reason is that that person needs to maintain good > relations with the people who are being harassed over the fogery. > Just who is getting harassed over this. All you need to do is get me the names and phone numbers, and we will eliminate this problem immediately. > I don't really want to go into details. No, do not do it in this list, but respond by a private response to this address. This is a place you can trust. The point is that this > situation is a lot more subtle than whether the pro-mail2news people > can "out-harrass" the people complaining about forgeries. Therefore, > I would sincerely appreciate it if you did not try to make any phone > calls or do anything to use up any more of these people's time. Well, it sounds like you are being a chicken shit now. The whole world runs on the telephone, and it all runs by voice, and not by text. I > fully intend to keep mail2news running, and am just trying to get more > news servers (after having lost one) to maintain reliability and > strengthen my position. > > > Just what is your definition of "abuse?" > > This got answered in a separate message. > yes it did. But why the fuck do you not want to find out who did this to you? I mean, Jesus fucking CHRIST! Let's get some fucking balls here. You can not let that mothetfucker get away with that! All you need is telephone numbers for some VERY nice phone calls. Learn to use your voice and not just your keyboard.

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No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks-unedited 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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hello
by James Sears 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unscribe

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

??? wrote: [some text deleted] > > Before I explain what has happened, I want to make one thing > > absolutely clear. Though I've thought the moderation of cypherpunks > > was a terrible idea from the start and am even more convinced of it > > now, I don't assign any blame to Sandy. I believe he offered to > > moderate the list with the best of intentions, and I sincerely > > appreciate his efforts to try to revive what was once a fantastic > > mailing list, even if in my opinion those efforts have backfired. This is the fatal mistake, assuming it's really a mistake. I've worked under several corporations where, at a certain point in time, things just "went crazy", and the owners/ managers were scrambling desperately to plug as many holes in the dike as they possibly could, to no avail. People don't understand why things just "go crazy" at a particular point, and so they accept the coincidence theory ruse, lacking any other evidence. Use your head, folks. This is not a list made up of sewing-circle nannies, these are security people, NSA, CIA, and all the ugly things you shut out of your conversations because you don't want to admit the truth. "Paranoia is a way of knowing". Today I saw an old picture of Albert Einstein in full Indian regalia, smoking a peace pipe with some Hopi people. I thought of the Capone mob and the "kiss of death", or Judas and Jesus, you get the picture. So Einstein puts his name and reputation and personal seal of approval on the creation of the Doomsday Device, the atom bomb, knowing full well that it will be used to murder millions of people. What does he do for an encore? Plants the "kiss of death" on the Hopis, whose environment is co-opted by the mad bombers and their Nazi-infested thug "scientist" cohorts, for the experimentation and storage of nuclear and other hazardous materials. You know, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, all those "useless, desert lands" occupied by the Indians.

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META: Censorship is Going Way too Far
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Fellow Cypherpunks (of the virtual community, even if not part of any particular version of the list(s)), I am about to drive over the Santa Cruz mountains for today's physical meeting at Stanford, and made my last check of the Singapore archive site to see if my last several messages to the CP list have appeared. (The Singapore site archives the main list every four hours; the latest update is 08:15 PST, local time.) They have _not_ appeared, on either of the two lists, the main list and filtered list. I don't know if they have appeared on the "unfiltered" list, as I don't have access to an archive site for that, and don't subscribe to it. Some of these articles are now more than 18 hours old. (I scanned the archive site carefully and did not see any of my articles. If I somehow missed them (all four?!), I apologize to the Moderator and will make an appointment with my eye doctor.) Further, messages dated _much_ later in time are now on the Singapore site, meaning they were "approved." (The latest such message I see is from J. Blatz, and is dated 2/8/97, 02:58 a.m., EST, which is fully 10 hours after the first of my messages which never appeared on either the main list or the flames list.) My articles are dated: * 2/7/97, 1:46 p.m. PST * 2/7/97, 1:59 p.m., PST * 2/7/97, 3:03 p.m., PST * 2/7/97, 9:46 p.m., PST I would normally give the message names here, but I suspect that even mention of the message titles would cause _this_ message to be filtered into the black hole list. So, by avoiding even mention of the message titles, I should be safe. Nothing in this message can be considered flamish (beyond normal criticism) or libelous. (Many articles with dates later than these have already appeared on the main list, and some have already appeared on the Flames list. Why have none of my articles gone through as of this morning?) The subjects of my articles deal with the claims made by "Against Moderation" and Vulis that certain articles were filtered from the stream of articles without appearing on either the main list or the flames list, and with no mention by the Moderator of this significant change to the moderation policies. I surmise that my articles are similarly vanishing into a black hole, presumably because I have questioned the policies here. (Possibly my articles have been side-tracked for further review, or for review by a certain company's legal staff, or whatever. If so, this should be explained to the main list. And the implications of this, if it is happening, should be discussed on the main list.) By the way, I will deliberately make no mention of the details of my articles, or of those by Against Moderation, as I also surmise that any articles dealing with a certain product by a certain company will be filtered out completely. (I carefully did not repeat the claims made against one of these products in my articles, so there is no way under the sun I can be charged in any court with "libel.") To paraphrase the Detweiler of a couple of years ago, "I am quite shocked by this situation." It is one thing to filter out posts which contain infantile, barnyard taunts and insults, it is quite another to filter out _content_. And it is even worse to not pass on these filtered comments to the "flames" list, which was putatively set up to contain such comments. Worse still that the list as a whole is not being told of this policy, and that posts which mention it are not going out. (There has been some discussion of articles not going out, such as in Igor Chudov's recent articles, but I surmise from his article that Igor is unaware of the filtering I'm talking about here. I am copying Igor on this message, to ensure he knows at least part of what is going on here.) There is no justification in any of the stated moderation goals for blocking articles such as mine, or this one. As my posts yesterday did not contain flames or insults (beyond normal minor turns of phrase some might not like, just as _this_ post contains mildly flamish comments if one is so inclined to see _any_ criticism as flamish), they should have appeared on the main list. They have not, so far, even though articles generated many hours later have already appeared on the main list. And, as of minutes ago, they have not appeared on the Flames list, even if the Moderator decided they were flamish. (Even if _one_ was, arguably, not all of them were.) So, we are increasingly in a situation where: a. the moderation policies appear to be changing on a daily basis b. articles which are not even flamish are being dumped c. some of these dumped articles are not even appearing on the "Flames" list d. the appearance of a conflict of interest is increasing e. discussion is being squelched I am cc:ing this message to a handful of Cypherpunks to ensure that it gets some propagation before today's meeting. I find it very sad that things have come to this. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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List censorship
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I notice several posts to the list discussing the incident when a message was sent to the list and was only at toad.com for 3 seconds before being forwarded. This incident, as the other posts observed, seems to suggest some kind of keyword filtering based on content or poster identity is in place. Sandy, can you explain this incident along with the fact that the post Dimitri sent about stronghold was sent to neither of the "filtered" lists. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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