December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:29 PM 11/15/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >At 4:46 PM -0800 11/14/96, I wrote: >>>On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Mark M. wrote: > >>To which, at 08:42 AM 11/14/96 -0500, aga wrote: >> >>>Why? Are you a criminal? >>>What are you hiding behind your PGP? >> >>Okay, I'll bite. Where is it said that a person who wants h[is,er] privacy >>is a criminal? Charlie McCarthy might have said that. > >You mean in his book "Crypto by Dummies"? > >Or were you perhaps thinking of Joe? > I was probably thinking of Joe. I keyed on McCarthy and Charlie was the first christian name to mind. I intended to give the name of the former Senator. I apologize for not checking the historical accuracy of the name I did use.

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Re: Remailer Abuse Solutions
by ph＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:38 PM 11/15/1996, Adam Back wrote: >Peter Hendrickson <ph(a)netcom.com> writes: >> However, if you restrict postings to an approved group of people, perhaps >> everybody on the mailing list, you can eliminate spam. How, then, do we >> allow anonymous postings to come through? Individual people on the list >> can receive the proposed post and forward it to the list if it is >> appropriate. They could even charge a fee for doing it. That's easy to >> do if there is a "paying" remailer which will handle the money for them. > Not necessarily a good idea. The post may be a hot potatoe, and the > forwarder may find themselves in legal trouble. (Say RC4 & RC2 source > code, NSA handbook, the results of the Mykotronic's dumpster diving > spree, etc). Exercising `editorial control' has landed some ISPs in > trouble, to the extent that some are specifically avoiding it for that > legal reason alone. Being _paid_ for forwarding the message may make > that even worse. > Often the posts which would get the anonymous poster (or the true name > forwarder) into the most troublle, are the ones which are most > interesting, and also very on topic. (In case you get this out of order, this is my second response.) Another way to have anonymous posting but not be subjected to spam and the like is to dispense tokens every week to the subscribers. They can be signed blindly so that anonymity is preserved, just like e-cash. Peter Hendrickson ph(a)netcom.com

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Crypto Chango
by P. J. Ponder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Steps to changing US encryption policies: (Note, you must be logged in as US President for this to work.) 1. Try to bug everyone's phone and computer with special chips. 2. Get your butt kicked at and missed by technical weenies, and eventually stomped on by your own national research council. 3. Wait for Congress to show leadership. (Lose two turns if you actually thought they would do something.) (Return) 4. Try to tap everything without using any special chips. (Goto 2) 5. See if any other governments want you to be able to tap their stuff, too. 6. Try to tap everything with half the key tied behind your back when you start. (Goto 2) 7. Issue the new policies. Play Again [Y/N]? Michael Foomkin and John Young have links to the edict. You may try: <A HREF="http://www.jya.com/" <John Young (look under Crypto)</A> <A HREF="http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/" <Prof. Froomkin's Page[?]</A> please excuse the handmade-from-memory URLs above if they don't work. . . . a little snippet from the Internet Scout Report . . . New from Net Scout ------------------ 1. The Scout Toolkit Version 2.0 http://www.cs.wisc.edu/scout/toolkit/ http://wwwscout.cs.wisc.edu/scout/toolkit/ http://rs.internic.net/scout/toolkit/ The most trusted source for information on how to make the Internet work better for you is now available in extra strength. Version 2.0 of the Scout Toolkit debuts today, with a completely new interface, many new sections, and a focus on the future. In addition to the current awareness you've come to expect from Net Scout, we've added an increased emphasis on analysis and insight. Sections include: Searching the Internet, Latest Tools and Technologies, End User's Corner, Net Scout Sidekicks, a Selective Guide to Publications on the Internet, and Future Internet Directions. The new Toolkit is mirrored on three sites to allow Internauts unhindered access. . . . Copyright Susan Calcari, 1996. Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies of the Scout Report provided the copyright notice and this paragraph is preserved on all copies. The InterNIC provides information about the Internet to the US research and education community under a cooperative agreement with the National Science Foundation: NCR-9218742. The Government has certain rights in this material. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this publication are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Wisconsin - Madison, the National Science Foundation, AT&T, or Network Solutions, Inc. . . .

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Re: The TRILATERAL COMMISSION -was: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on...
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:01 ðì 16/11/1996 -0600, snow wrote: >> As regards the "gullibility", it's plainly dangerous; And cultivated >> by the Media, apparently stronger in the U.S. than in many other places. >> (written by E. Francis, on the "Trilateral Commission", and distributed >> to all members of his own -private- mailing list, of which I'm a part). >> >THE LAND OF SHADOWS >> > >> > Early this month is the last presidential=20 >> >"election" before the year 2000. As of this writing and=20 >> >long before, the election was decided in favor of Bill=20 >> >Clinton. It works out astrologically, but the real=20 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I think this just about says it all. A ha ha ha!!! ROTFL. You forget that Astrology is... unsuitable for gullible children. :-) > Go talk to Don Wood. Don't know who the hell Don Wood is. However, I bet you _also_ don't know who Mr. Stringas is. Well, he is the author of several books about his experience as a prominent C.I.A. official working for the Trilateral Commission, a former NATO official who acted as a "link" between the Athens government and Washington, and he also (at the age of 70+) doesn't give a damn about anyone putting a bullet in his head (or so he says) which is unlikely anyway since it would be too "obvious". Mr. Stringas is not the only one who wrote thousands of pages about the Trilateral Commission's activities and members (e.g. Clinton). However, you seem to dismiss well-known facts for the simple reason that they were originally posted by an astrologer (E. Francis) and apparently you believe astrologers are by nature non-credible. That's fine with me. As a highly analytical Virgo with Venus in Libra, I understand you very well. :-) I will reply with a real life JOKE, in this case: Two days ago I had a rather official meeting with some nice people with whom we negotiated a contract (of details irrelevant here). Carrying my notebook computer (as I always do) with several astrology programs inside it, I actually took it out and made a horoscope for my... lawyer, who ALSO happens to be a Virgo with Venus in Libra, and this was hilarious, since we _now_ understood our... similarities. Then a gentleman came into the room who remarked that Astrology is only suitable for loonies and gullible morons. He added that for these people, the Greek word "zodion" applies except without the 'd' and the 'i' in the 3rd and 4rth places inside the word 'zodion' ('Zodion' means 'Zodiac sign'). (If you delete those characters, you are left with the word 'Zoon' which means 'animal'). An astrologer friend of mine, also in the same room, immediately replied: Aha! But the way you phrased it, Sir, makes you surely a virgo, too; probably with a Virgo ascendant, I would say. The guy stared at us in terror. He WAS a Virgo, and had a Virgo ascendant, as he himself said. He promptly stopped talking and looked rather thoughtful... Perhaps a... coincidence? :-) Have fun (with astrology). George

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Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 ðì 16/11/1996 -0500, Tim Scanlon wrote: >Between >the 2 lists & various people I see represented here, with all due & >serious respect, you folks have GOT to have better, more important, >and far more deserving issues to devote your time to. I would hope >that you would take a few moments and think about those things, and >consider acting appropriatly in light of those thoughts. [...] >And it's >gotten way, way out of hand. I suggest that it might be better not >to spam cypherpunks with this stuff, and to give it a rest. >Tim Scanlon I think the expulsion of Dimitri Vulis is HIGHLY on-topic inside the Freedom Knights List. As it happens, it is ALSO on topic in the cypherpunks list, no matter how HARD you try to forget this. After censoring Dimitri, you will also NATURALLY try to censor others too, such as myself (receiving notices that I stop "cross-posting" to the cypherpunks list). However, you are a HYPOCRITICAL ASSHOLE, becayse you ALSO cross-post to your own (cypherpynks) list. What you CLEARLY want is to HAVE THE "LAST WORD" ABOUT THIS ISSUE. This is typical of all censorship. If your request was SINCERE, you would be the FIRST to NOT CROSS-POST IT to the cypherpunks list. Oh Gods of Olympus! :-) >Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives: >[lots of worthless crap snipped out] You mean whatever you disagree with, or perhaps don't bother to read, you dismiss as 'worthless crap'. It's funny, this attitude. I find it philosophically inexcusable. I never dismiss the opinions of others as "worthless crap" when they are expressed eloquently. What I said instead is that "VERY important ideas have been expressed from all sides". Perhaps you didn't notice. >> When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered >> a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum. The whole problem >> here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore. >> >It's not an abuse of power. It was an effort to curtail inappropriate >SPAM. Much like this entire topic has become non-crypto SPAM on the >cypherpunks list. You have begun REDEFINING "SPAM" according to your personal feelings and opinions. "SPAM" as EVERYONE ELSE understands it, implies some kind of _gain_ (e.g. from advertising) inside a posting. Redefining "SPAM" is consistent with attempts to redefine other known words as well. Like the word "Censorship", which has been redefined to mean "ONLY official censorship". The tendency of closed-minded internet communities to REDEFINE common words as they deem fit, is RATHER WELL KNOWN, where I come from. I am a dictionary maker by profession, BTW. (I write some of the software for it, and run the business. OK, I also do spelling mistakes. It's not my job to know everything, ya know! :-) :-) ) However, if you take my own opinions for instance, they are expressed without ANY thought of gain (by definition impossible, since I don't advertise anything. I write these texts at the intervals of a very real life, involving a lot of swimming, and a lot of Research. When my friends and I meet, we laugh a lot with the situation thousands of miles across the ocean, where... EVEN a "cypherpunks" mailing list has evicted someone forcibly. Rather typical, as it happens. Gives you people a bad name you know... >> The first time is the time when you lose all credibility, and there >> is never any forgiveness for a plug-puller. > >All bullshit aside, this whole thing has NOTHING to do with crypto. >And it has very VERY little to do with censorship either. Which means you probably didn't read much of what was said anyway. Typical... George

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Output of your job "cypherpunks"
by L-Soft list server at CCI (1.8b) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> ok Confirming: > SIGNOFF NEWSLETTER You have been removed from the NEWSLETTER list. Summary of resource utilization ------------------------------- CPU time: 0.200 sec Device I/O: 0 Overhead CPU: 0.000 sec Paging I/O: 0 CPU model: Pentium 90/100 (30M)

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Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 ðì 16/11/1996 -0500, Tim Scanlon wrote: >Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives: >[lots of worthless crap snipped out] As an aside, some of this "worthless crap" written by Stephen Boursy and "others with no lives", happens to contain jewels of wisdom and humility such as the following: (cut and pasted from another posting): >> P.S. I never understood the (American?) preoccupation about... "putting >> out flames". If I find flame-messages boring, I don't read them! >> If anyone insults me, I reply; If anyone speaks nicely, I also do. >> The (American?) preoccupation about flames conceals a deep _fear_ >> of freedom, freedom of the other person's freedom. > > > This is very true. I'm worried about the US--our lack of respect >for free speech--our extremely poor social services for the poor, etc. >It is not a country I'm proud of at the moment. Much of what is >praised about the US--our stability of government--is our downfall--we >should be able to toss a government like we have out on its ass and >string up the leaders on telephone polls. Are you aware... tiny Tim, that Stephen Boursy's comment should make Americans feel PROUD, and that his response to my rant made me think a LOT? Perhaps learning from the humility and wisdom of others has also been banned inside your... tiny-Tim brain cells. Happy Recovery Geirge

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Re: More Euro Key Escrow
by Bryondp＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

take me off this list

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Re: Giving Kill Files a Workout...
by cvhd＠indyweb.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:52 AM 11/16/96 -0800, you wrote: >What a week! What is this? "Net Loon pig-pile on Cypherpunks day?" >So far i have killfiled three people in the past two days. (That is the >total number I filtered to trash before that date.) >For those of you who are sick of wading through this mess, I am willing to >show you what it will take to filter those of your choice to /dev/null or >its local equivelent. (procmail can be your friend!) >Maybe after some creative filtering, the list will settle back to the usual >noise, instead of the net-loon noise. As the smoke from the first rounds of cyber-gunfire of the Gilmore vs Vulius shootout were wafting thru C-space several of us were bemoaning the fact that the entire issue hadn't been handled thru creative filtering on the part of list members as opposed to the heavy-handed "Big-Bro'ish" plug pulling by Mr. Gilmore. The "net-loon noise" level increase was predictable. Like you I will continue to perform creative filtering in order to extract the 4 out of 240 messages worth reading in any given 48 hour period. cvhd

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MSIE 128 Bit
by Steve Shelby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sat Nov 16 11:56:26 1996 "WorkHorse's interface is pretty ugly and the rendition is buggy, but the SSL connection does work: I got through mbanx's "Sign in" link at http://www.mbanx.com/banxing/5welcome.html , whereas MSIE and NS3 were kicked out due to their 40-bit RC4 limit." - ---- Microsoft has a 128 bit version of their Explorer available. You have to jump through a few hoops, but they have it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMo3yP0F1dOf86f8dAQHs1QQAwYuTk5Lqvb2vBgvOVef1ToFIUtG5JN70 dBmD8JM23N0ZROsF03+wFGUT71pMAuu3BjuJQBOm0r9idPBwdcq6CaVf8QoU5+/Q tbj6b9PFx9EbpE4bZqoGPf3ePRFg6ImMSdyKDeM5vIMKJO8BwQZugqP2CgblkzlG yvEgPyiUlek= =ZlSn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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