December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

TRY THIS FOR FUN - $$payt~1.doc (0/1)
by markets＠mindspring.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

$$$EARN MONEY FAST AND LEGITIMATE!!!! Not a Chain Letter; No Implied Threats: That's what I like about it. OK, OK so here I am trying one of these programs, well I figured, why not, for the exposure of $5.00 what do I really have to lose. Heck, I've lost a great deal more than that just on a night's entertainment, not to mention what I spend on unnecessary snacks and beverages at work each day. So, the lists I have read really do speak about the great benefits of developing mailing lists. Why not give it a try as a hobby yourself and see where it gets you. The comments are quite clear and believable: Ryan Gaskins says: Not only does it work for me, it works for other folds as well. Markus Valppu says he made $57,883 in four weeks. Dave Manning claims he made $53,664 in the same amount of time. Dan Shepstone says it was only $17,000 for him. Do I know these folks? No, but when I read how they say they did it, it made sense to me. Enough sense that I'm taking a similar chance with $5 of my own money. Not a big chance, I admit -- but one with incredible potential, because $5 is all anyone ever invests in this system. Period. That's all Markus, Dave, or Dan invested, yet their $5 netted them tens of thousands of dollars each, in a safe, legal completely legitimate way. Here's how it works in 3 easy steps: Step 1 Invest your $5 by writing your name and address on five seperate pieces of paper along with the words: "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST." (In this way, you're not just sending a dollar to someone; you're paying for a legitimate service). Fold a $1 bill, money order, or bank note inside each paper, and mail them by standard local mail/post to the following five addresses: 1. P.R. Corswandt Hubertusallee 6-8 D-14193 GERMANY 2. Stig Eriksen Stolshaugv. 24 N-5460 HUSNES NORWAY 3. T. Lavigne 19 Whisper Lane Milton, VT 05468 USA 4. R. Gaskins 1272 Great Neck Rd #220 Virginia Beach, VA 23454 USA 5. JUD 47 West Polk Street Suite #100-212 Chicago, IL 60605 USA Step 2 Now using any word processor program, open this document (or re-type it yourself) remove the top name from the list, and re-number. This way #2 becomes #1, #5 becomes #4 and so on. Put your name and address in as the fifth (#5) on the list. Step 3 Post the article to at least 250 newsgroups. There are at least 19000 newsgroups at any given moment in time. Try posting to as many newsgroups as you can. Remember the more groups you post to, the more people will see your article and send you cash! Step 4 you are now in business for yourself, and should start seeing returns within 7 to 14 days! Remember, the Internet is new and huge. It is hard to imagine not benefiting from this friendly exercise in this incredle rapidly growing market. Now here is how and why this system works: Out of every block of 250 posts made, expect 5 responses. Yes that right, only 5. You make $5.00 in cash, not checks or money orders, but real cash with your name at #5. Each additional person who sent you $1.00 now also makes 250 additional postings with your name at #4, 1000 postings. On average then, 50 people will send you $1.00 with your name at #4k,.... $50.00 in your pocket! Now these 50 new people will make 250 postings each with your name at #3 or 10,000 postings. Average return, 500 people = $500.00 they make 250 postings each with your name at #2 = 100,000 postings = 5,000 returns at $1.00 each $5,000.00 in cash! Finally, 5,000 people make 250 postings each with your name at #1 and you get a return of $60,000 before your name drops off the list. And that's only if everyone down the line makes only 250 postings each! Your total income for this one cycle is $55,000. >From time to time when you see your name is no longer on the list, you take the latest posting you can find and start all over again. The end result depends on you. You must follow through and re-post this article everywhere you can think of. The more postings you make the more cash ends up in your mailbox. It's too easy and too cheap to passup!!!! So thats it. Pretty simple sounding stuff, huh? But believe me, it works. there are millions of people surfing the net every day, all day, all over the world. And 100,000 new people get on the net every day. You know that, you've seen the stories in the paper. So, my friend, read and follow the simple instructions and play fair. That's the key. And that's all there is to it. print this out right now so you can refer back to this article easily. Try to keep an eye on all the postings you made to make sure everyone is playing fairly. You know where your name should be. If you're really not sure or still think this can't be for real, then don't do it. But please print this article and pass it along to someone you know who really needs the bucks, and see what happens. REMEBER.HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. YOU DON'T NEED TO CHEAT THE BASIC IDEA TO MAKE THE BUCKS! gOOD LUCK TO ALL, AND PLEASE PLAY FAIR AND YOU WILL MAKE SOME REAL INSTANT FREE CASH! ***By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the bucks to people already included, you will nnot get much. Another fellow did this and only got about $150.00 (and that's after two months). Then he sent the 5 bills, people added him to thier lists, and in 4-5 weeks he dad over $10,000! TRY IT AND YOU'LL BE HAPPY111 WARNING: IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE THIS IDEA WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT DO YOU WANT TO SPEND 4-7 YEARS IN JAIL FOR MAIL FRAUD!!!????

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TRY THIS FOR FUN - $$payt~1.doc (1/1)
by markets＠mindspring.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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1 0

Mailing list liability
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note: Parts of the following are taken verbatim from (1) with some rewording on my part to make the material flow better. Cubby v Compuserve (1991) The court reasoned, "in essence an electronic, for profit library that carried a vast number of publications and collected usage and membership fees from its subscribers in return for access to the publications." The court further ruled that Compuserve had no more editorial control over Rumorville than "does a public library, book store, or newsstand, and it would be no more feasible for Compuserve to examine every publication it carries for potentialy defamatory statements than it would be for any other distributor to do so." The court also found, "A computerized database is the functional equivalent of a more traditional news vendor, and the inconsistent application of a lower standard of liability to an electronic news distributor such as Compuserve than that which is applied to a public library, a book store, or a newsstand would impose an undue burden on the free flow of information. Given the relevant First Amendment considerations, the appropriate standard of liability is whether it knew or had reason to know of the allegedly defamatory Rumorville statements." The court held that Compuserve was not liable because Compuserve was a "distributor" and not a "publisher." The court concluded that because Compuserve did not actively monitor the postings of the forum, it was a distributor. In summary, the court compared Compuserve to a bookstore selling the book rather than the publisher of the book. Cianci v New Times Publishing Co. (1980) "one who repeats or othewise republishes defamatory matter is subject to the liability as if he had originaly published it." Lerman v Chuckleberry Publishing, Inc. (1981) The court held that with respect to news vendors, book stores, and libraries are not liable if "vendors and distributors of defamatory publications are not liable if they neither know nor have reason to know of the defamation." Stratton Oakmont v Prodigy (1995) The critical issue in Prodigy was whether Prodigy exercised sufficient editorial control over its computer bulletin boards to render it a publisher with the same responsibilities as a newspaper or magazine. The court reasoned that there were two distinctions in this case sufficient to qualify Prodigy as a publisher. First, it held itself out to the public and its members as controlling the content of its computer bulletin boards. Second, Prodigy implimented this control through its automated software and established guidelines that board leaders were required to enforce. Prodigy was clearly making decisions as to content. Such decisions constitute editorial control. (1) ;login:, Oct. 1996, V21N5 pp27.

2 1

Re: RICO - (Was: Group order for Secret Power)
by Matthew J. Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> At 03:13 AM 11/8/96 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote: > >On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, jim bell wrote: > > >> But the odd thing is, the one entity we can't seem to attack using RICO is > >> the Federal government, and probably most other governments levels. Looked > >> at purely objectively, it should be easy to demonstrate that the Federal > >> government (and its representatives) have engaged in plenty of crime as a > >> pattern of activity, and certainly enough to rise to the level of the > >> standards of RICO. (It takes only a few instances of such crime satisfy the > >> standards of RICO.) > > > >Incorrect. Employees of the Federal Government can be, and have been, > >prosecuted under RICO. Many political corruption cases involve some RICO > >aspects. This should make Mr. Bell a big fan of the statute, unless he > >just likes the flash of murdering officials instead. > > No, I meant the ENTIRE government Not just individual government officials. > Remember, RICO is _supposed_ to apply to any organization with a pattern of > criminal activity, and has been used (in fact, probably mostly used) against > organizations where many of the members are "merely" employees, quite > analogous to the Federal government. If RICO applies to anything, it should > apply to the Feds, and that means conviction of the entire organization if > it or its employees have a pattern of illegal activity. Since RICO only > requires a relatively tiny number of criminal acts to meet its standards, it > should not be difficult to show enough criminality. Jim, If it seems this easy to you, please draft the pleadings. I would strongly suggest at least a basic civil procedure book. Non-specific pleadings? That couldn't be a problem. And upon Peter's recommendation, thank you Jim for doing this brave service for the cpunks cause. "Canary in a coal mine, going on down, down..." Matt > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDq+FoAAAEEANM9+JcJmUp4aCSGpdOG4Y1b6m4630XA8H41Utbvr7Tr6wEH CD6tlxZ+k+Pycj4w/f8WQa8fC50skoLjUNeP4lYsR7NYaMGRp6WkqCLMI/3Nohvk pfLDqnzZZdwVL2liB7mfTURoF6doQaVehHmMBjSaVTfD12tzNGm6VvyEc77JAAUR tClNYXR0aGV3IEouIE1pc3pld3NraSA8bWptaXNraUBleGVjcGMuY29tPg== =lkx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: No More
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sat Nov 09 19:21:54 1996 > I want take off mail list Oooh. Gotta be a few good stego bits in that one. - ----- David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO USA 63702 dsmith(a)prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/~dsmith send mail with subject of "send pgp-key" for my PGP public key "Better living through chemicals" - unattributed -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMoUuNTVTwUKWHSsJAQHdYgf+OKNAADSBz+qpjD+u+qqZWPUmAuyQhUGd jsn/TQG/1gXctoAin5S3VYha1uzt2Pd5xNqUZfpjzP99qDalbtElaROfSo1MoWqj lL1oencAMW9lIfNNQVzRj2B+eHfpBUo33/Fq25xRktPCAgwhrU6Q1Bc2q4p8nxbG d65iexqo8CYwMzwnGarl+D7OKXaLZtsZt1JIHcc70KyTB5OaRaVK7pGcu6YTdAS4 0jLfxHJZuDt6p0AcWm+ie2yqRkwEKryB8AFQ6r9wFoCFp0VNuh6dxmY2qn15A9BD D/BjreSvQcFCcctHOuTHZDTuMPAZZTWCaR/ImlLLy3iCMcICjCRMJQ== =wrw5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Information [for new PGP user]
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 07 Nov 1996 07:08:52 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote: >> >> > I'm a new Cyberpunk! >> Probably wearing a set of Ono-Sendai eyeballs.... >> >> > Last, I would like to know once and for all, is PGP compromised, is >> >> > there a back door, and have we been fooled by NSA to believe it's secure? >> You can read and compile the source code yourself. >Really? All 60,000 or so lines, including all 'includes' or attachments? >I'll bet you can't find 10 out of 1,000 users who have read the total source, >let alone comprehended and validated it. That's not necessary - it's the fact that it's possible that matters; most of us are content to trust the various people who actually have. However, I'd probably be inclined to look into it seriously if I was going to use it on anything incriminating or potentially linked to my checkbook... # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Why is cryptoanarchy irreversible?
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:43:23 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >* "Legitimate needs." The whole notion Peter raises of banning cryptography >is fraught with problems. Are businesses to be told that all communications >are to be in the clear? Or is Peter's point that some form of GAK will be >used? I'd love to see the government try to tell big business that they can't protect, say, electronic transactions. That'd get a lot of rented senators in action... >(If the latter, then of course we are back to an even better form of >"stego" than stego itself: superencrypt before using GAK. Unless the >government samples packets randomly and does what they say they will do to >open a GAKked packet--e.g., get a court order, go to the escrow key >holders, etc.--then how will they know if a message is superencrypted? And >what if a GAKked message contains conventional _codes_? Are shorthand codes >such as business have long used--"The rain in Rome is warm this month"--to >be illegal?) Also: "Am I being investigated for any crime?" "Then how do you know it's been superencrypted - I thought you could only get access with a warrant?" # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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a retort + a comment + a question = [RANT]
by SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP＠smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------------------------------------------------------------------- tim may wrote: >"...and that discussions of other topics bother you should be a clear >indication you're probably on the wrong list." uh, that's _why_ i am on this list... >"Having a "navy.mil" domain probably is another reason, unless you >are only hear to monitor our discussions of using cryptography to >undermine the state, to liberate military secrets with BlackNet and >the Information Liberation Front, and to punish the millions of >those in the military-industrial complex who have so richly earned >their eventual punishments. military secrets, eh? tell me something mr may, what secrets have you uncovered in your undaunting quest to expose those corrupt little guys in uniform? mr may - i serve in the US Navy so you don't have to, and as much as i sometimes _don't_ like it, i will always, _always_ love the navy for what she gave me. one of the reasons you sit at your terminal drinking your coffe and ranting on and on, is because men and women like myself happen to think that what the military does for the US is a good thing. i skipped collage (don't ask why) after graduating early from HS to enlist in the navy. keeping you free to bitch is why i am here. never forget that the freedom you enjoy comes with a price, mr may. the schools that you send your kids to (forgive me if you're celibate or childless) are run by the govt. am i saying they do a good job? not necessarily, but what i _am_ saying is that your kids _still_ go. i am almost positive, despite attempts to the contrary, that you make use of the US postal system. the phone lines that you connect that computer to were installed by - guess who? - there are a hundred other things you and i and everyone use that wouldn't be there if it weren't for the USG (or state/county/municipal govt's). tell me mr may, how much of this are you willing to give up in your quest for what (i am supposing) you mean in your little blurb at the end of your mail - "collapse of governments"? the writer supposes that mr may would still be against, determined to oppose, and dedicated to the elimination of [pick something, pick anything] if govt's didn't exist. what's the quote? "i may not agree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it." something like that. >Smash the State. aye, aye captain! --------------------------------------------------------------------- mark m wrote: >In order for anonymous remailers to be completely anonymous, only one >remailer in the chain has to be trustworthy. If a message is chained >through N remailers and N-1 of those remailers are run by spooks, the >anonymity of the message depends on the remaining remailer. well, actually, the first remailer has to be the trustworthy one. you send a msg to the first with your "real" address, and if the spook is there, voila! so... i understand your point, but still, it has to be the first one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dale thorn(?) wrote: >I'm amused to think that, in a nation armed with 20,000 or so nukes, >the paranoid of paranoid nation-states as it were, some of the >erstwhile intelligent citizens think that the U.S. military are just >sitting around wringing their hands over the "fact" that the citizens >have "unbreakable" crypto. >Bear in mind the Scientific American articles on Public Key crypto >back in the 1970's. The military knew the score back then, and if >you think they just sat back and allowed all this to happen, well, >sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. one question (sarcastic and rhetorical): how long did it take for the USG to actually acknowledge that the NSA.NRO.DIA.etc existed? hmmm.... has a segment of the populace gone stark raving paraniod? >Second, any truly secret messaging taking place represents a serious >threat to the military, and contrary to some naive popular opinion, >those guys are not going to lay down for this... what does the military have to do wiht private citizens conversing in secret? are _you_ one of the naive that think men actually in uniform controll the military? hello - the SecDef is a civillian. the president is a democrat. the military does what the white house/ congress tell it (the writer realizes this is a vastly over- simplified response to a vastly broad statement). ---------------------- SUCRUM22(a)cv62.navy.mil ----------------------- a calculated risk based on the possible consequence of an action is better than a haphazard one based on poor judgment or ignorance --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't confuse my views with those of the DoD or the United States Navy

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Re: Mailing list liability (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From markm@gak Sat Nov 9 21:03:24 1996 > > Note that none of these say anything about any commercial service being held > liable for defamatory statements because the service cancelled a user's > account or prevented a user from posting in certain areas. I really don't > see why you consider unsubscribing someone from a mailing list the equivalent > of monitoring posts and exercising editorial control. It is exactly editorial control because it prevents, a priori, submissions by Vulis under that account. He is FORCED to resort to other means. That is what the courts will see, it is what the jury will see, and it is what will eventualy sink the list, and place its operator under financial burden for years. I joined this list under my own volition, I agreed to no review by the list operator at any time. I did not agree to not hurt his feelings with my comments or views. I did not agree to agree with the operator of the list. I did not agree to make him feel warm and fuzzy inside. I agreed to NOTHING other than my permission for him to put your submissions in my email box. The only way I can be removed from this list and not open the operator up to legal consequences is by my own volition or the total cessation of this list. This applies to every member subscribed so long as their is no proviso posted at subscription time. They were held liable for the comments of their users BECAUSE they demonstrated editorial control. In removing Vulis from the list he has demonstrated editorial control. Prior to this act he was immune from rantings and ravings of the various idiots on this list. Now he is not. The fact that it was a commercial service was irrelevant and not an issue in the court cases. What was involved was the responsibility of the service operators, the agreement between service and users, and who had editorial control (users v service). And finaly, if your contention is that if you set up a press and start cranking out flyers (digital or otherwise), which defame or otherwise liable, you are immune from prosecution unless you are a business then you are in for a very rude surprise. Sooner or later somebody is going to submit a posting which will go through. That posting will be pointed at a particular personality. That personality will take exception and sue the list operator, and because of this action will have a very high chance of winning. Not only does the list operator loose but we all loose because it is going to set a precedence that will take many years more to recover from. I seldom get personal but there are a few of you folks that have your heads up your collective crypto-anarchy asses. Here is a simple process whereby you can protect yourself from legal reprisals and you don't take it. God help you because the courts shure as hell won't. In case you people don't get it, the whole point is to REDUCE the influence and control of the government (local, state, and federal). NOT to give even more fodder to shoot. For a list operator a primary if not the primary goal is to avoid any legal involvement at all costs. Throwing people off lists with no subscription limitations is not the way to do that. To be a succesful list operator your scruples and the way you treat your subscribers MUST be beyond any reproach. The bottem line is that the act was not professional and impacts the image of mailing lists, Cypherpunks, its operator, and its members in a negative light. I have operated BBS'es and mailing lists since '76 and find such actions on the part of a fellow service operator to be insulting to the profession that I have enjoyed for 20 years. Those of you who contend that because there is no explicit contract between operator and subscriber this is sufficient to allow the operator to enact any policies they wish with no warning or other consideration are in for a nasty surprise. You will find that this will in fact prevent a list operator from doing anything other than upgrading software, buying more disk space, and paying the bills because that is the ONLY way they will be able to retain commen carrier style protections. Without that protection a list operator is faced with reviewing every submission to a list prior to redistribution or face the legal and financial consequences. I do not wish to see the Cypherpunks mailing list to become that litmus test. Consider this, the Cypherpunks mailing list is a very public list in many ways it is the vanguard of what tomorrows net will be like. Is this the sort of environment that can survive? With this as the current list policy I think we are all taking part in a dinosaur. Jim Choate

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Apartment complex burnt down... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:53:02 -0800 > From: nobody(a)cypherpunks.ca (John Anonymous MacDonald) > > Suppose Bob lives in an apartment complex. By accident the whole building > burns down. > > Bob manages to escape, but all his papers, including passport, IDs, > credit cards, acount numbers, etc etc gets destroyed. > > What can Bob do? Would the government help him? > > It seems like he'd be in a really unfavorable position... I was there 2 years ago. The Red Cross is about the only group you can count on other than family, friends and a church (if you happen to belong to one). Getting another drivers license was a easy operation. Head down to the local DPS office and request a replacement card for a lost license. The titles and such for property and auto were tedious but not impossible. I didn't need to show anything other than my drivers license and pay the requisite fees to obtain new copies of the deeds. In general the governmental types of documents and such were easy to replace. I personaly had all the necessary copies of the documents I needed within a month or so. The personal items were impossible to replace and caused the most emotional turmoil. In many parts of the country the Red Cross is delepeted both in operating funds and volunteers. If you can, please consider giving them your support. I personaly didn't use them but both my roomies did. Jim Choate

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