December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

FW: Unsubtroll
by Butler, Scott 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FOR GOD'S SAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >---------- >From: piotrk@opnt.optimus.wroc.pl[SMTP:piotrk@opnt.optimus.wroc.pl] >Sent: 19 November 1996 05:04 >Subject: Unsubtroll > >>unsubtroll >

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Re: Playing Cards - Caution!
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:01 PM 11/18/96 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote: >Here's why I now prefer dice: Dice are simple. Each die throw can be >made to be quite independent of all other die throws. Even loaded dice >may be used by throwing them repeatedly and adding the results mod the >number of sides to the die. Dice which are suspect may be studied by >repeated throwing. Non-independence can be more easily studied as >it can be assumed that a throw of the die is, at most, related only >to the previous throw and none before. I used dice to generate my ATM access code for my last bank account. (10-sided dice left over from my role-gaming days...) The looks I got from the bank personnel was pretty hillarious. They had little to know clue about guessable passwords or related issues. (You would be amazed as to how many people use birthday information and the like for ATM codes.) But then again, they though that the "bank at home" software was pretty secure too... --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: Extreme Left/Right
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:59 AM 11/19/96 -0400, amp wrote: >I first saw mention of a chart similar to this in the 60s. It was a way of >describing beliefs politically that was put forth by Jerry Pournelle. (Who >is available on the net btw.) That must be one hell of a download... ]:> >> When I used to listen to a certain "leftist" radio station broadcasting >> out of New York City, they would talk about "left-wing", communist >> dictatorships and "right-wing", fascist dictatorships. A dictatorship is >> a dictatorship!!! The "wing" that it comes from makes no difference!! > >Yup. You hit the nail on the head here. This is something that any thinking >person should recognise. The basic way we are taught to understand and >reference politics =makes=no=sense=. The question is whether you wish to be tortured by the Government forces or the Peoples Revolutionary army. (I guess is comes down to which side has had more practice this week...) Also, will this be deliberate torture or the accidental kind. ("Oops. Sorry. We were actually after a dully elected representative of the four horseman. You just got in the way. Maybe it will grow back...") >> The >> way the media defines these things makes no sense; you can't have a >> dictatorship on BOTH sides of a POLITICAL SPECTRUM no more than you can >> have YELLOW on both sides of the COLOR SPECTRUM. > >Take a gander at the libertarian's chart. I think it is a more accurqte way >of describing people, and in fact is similar in some ways to what you >describe. A philosophy is charted based on how one views personal and >property rights. This assumes that there are only two basic axises that rights are based opon. Some of those can get pretty fuzzy. To properly describe how the system works would require an n-dimensional hyperpolygon of indeterminate size. (Kind of like describing the black budget. You know it is there, but looking at it is difficult, and if they catch you looking the hounds of tindalos will be coming at you out of every corner of the woodwork.) Personally, I am a political non-euclidean. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: Extreme Left/Right
by amp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Nov 19 04:35:41 1996 =snip= >I first saw mention of a chart similar to this in the 60s. It was a way of >describing beliefs politically that was put forth by Jerry Pournelle. (Who >is available on the net btw.) ao> That must be one hell of a download... ]:> I must be getting a bit dense. It took me a while for your comment to sink in... >Take a gander at the libertarian's chart. I think it is a more accurqte way >of describing people, and in fact is similar in some ways to what you >describe. A philosophy is charted based on how one views personal and >property rights. ao> This assumes that there are only two basic axises that rights are ao> based opon. Some of those can get pretty fuzzy. To properly ao> describe how the system works would require an n-dimensional ao> hyperpolygon of indeterminate size. (Kind of like describing the ao> black budget. You know it is there, but looking at it is difficult, ao> and if they catch you looking the hounds of tindalos will be coming ao> at you out of every corner of the woodwork.) Agreed. The problem is, how complicated do you want it to be? If we are going to be classifying people by their political philosophy, the sustem we use should at least be usable. An n-dimensional model would probably be a highly accurate representation if properly constructed, but who would sit through the grilling it requires? (perhaps someone might be willing to =force= you to be grilled, but it wouldn't be pleasant imo.) A third axis would probably pinpoint things a bit better than a 2-dimensional model, but I must admit, I'm at a loss as to exactly what this third line would be. I think 'personal' and 'economic' liberty are a pretty good barometer of someone's thinking. It's not, by any means, perfect, but it is easily understandable even by most people today. amp ao> Personally, I am a political non-euclidean. Indeed. Thank God the universe is non-euclidean and non-newtonian as well. === amp(a)pobox.com Earth First! We'll strip mine the other planets later! === -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMpGNflUbR1RWr40pAQEtyAf8DdM8I8wKHftp+wnm6McMPbCRWada8NNC cfvVMMmcowCEXbzXRli/+BU30YUan3Qr/Uf3nvqsT+yasfHJPEJIaIaUy7J+NC6w IX+FQqpuDi3Hrh2B805qeq6erc0KWEkJkxZuV1WU1Akt+qk7DWPdVbwSmBF6Ae3z 1K8KxH1Z53NZ8HtWAfPzD6OV+cvCo66a+JwFxrEt02IGoZ6L53p9oQeDY81siGtl xGmA+1xJ0cZtnqnUY6CuhG6As4iqr254ZdVSnszaI/lPrJCKG/w1aj9+5/UDoU1J VcJfrTsdYaWDyuhxqeIkPbRNkFNr47KVnnPw7Ebemqmz2RjVdo18xQ== =AlLl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: The Utility of Privacy
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:54 PM 11/18/96 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote: >> Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant >> in Cambodia. Prior to that, a degree was considered a good thing >> there. People saw no reason to hid the fact that they had been >> in school. Trouble is, things changed. > >Oh, come on. That could never happen here. Where have I heard that line before? Sandy was giving an actual example of a general problem. Educated people were executed in Cambodia. That may not happen here but it is very common for innocent legal activities or characteristics to later become very illegal and subject to punishment. Examples: Judaism in Germany in 1900 vs 1940 Smoking in America in 1950 vs 1996 Spanking children in Sweden 1950 vs 1996 Owning gold in America in 1930 vs 1933 Publishing and distributing "Discovery of the Orgone" in the 1940s vs the 1950s The problem is that you can't always guess in advance which of your behaviors or characteristics will get you in trouble later. The fewer people who know your affairs the less trouble you will be in when things change. DCF "When I was born, smoking was a virtue and sodomy a vice."

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Re: NO commo to "Faggot" cypherpunk list
by Stephen Boursy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

George A. Stathis wrote: > > Black Unicorn wrote: > >>> Any list run by an admitted Faggot is no place >>> where I will allow an audience. That certainly is your right alough I'd personally differ. >> >>Oh, this guy is for free speech. Sure. I saw nothing to the contrary--did you? >>Freedom Knights? Try Knights of the KKK. Oh my. > I think you ought to realize by now, Mr. "Black Unicorn", that > aga (like everyone of us) has a right to his own likes and dislikes. > They may alienate some people, offend others, but I sincerily believe > that equating his "dislike of faggots" to the "KKK" is seriously > misleading. > One of Dr. Grubor's cosmic purposes in life is to bring the vermin out of the woodwork--we have yet another. Steve

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Re: Securing Electronic Mail Within HMG
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ben Laurie wrote: >This document is available on the Web, at: > >http://www.xopen.org/public/tech/security/pki/casm/casm.htm > >see also my "addendum" to Anderson & Roe's paper (which is actually a critique >of the above proposal, rather than RH itself) at: > >http://www.algroup.co.uk/crypto/rh.html Ben rightly points to a complete and handsome forebear of our gap-toothed descendant. We withdraw ours. Thanks Ben. And thanks for your "addendum" to A&R.

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Re: REQUESTING INFORMATION :-)
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:53 AM 11/19/96 -0200, George A. Stathis wrote (in part): >I REQUEST INFORMATION on those people who compile "Unemployability >Lists" in the USA, as well as ANY other information on this issue. You can add me to your list. I keep an "unemployability list" - although I don't write it down or put it on a computer. >We Greeks would like ALL the names of the people who act as "Informers" >of companies denouncing those unfortunate Americans who are doomed >to unemployment. We plan to give these names to all our friends, so >as to warn them WHO to avoid during our summer holidays in Greek >Islands. Why don't you come back to reality. I have hired and fired people. Those that I fired I would not hire again. There are others I have worked with that I would never hire (and would strongly recommend against anyone else hiring). That is life. I have little sympathy for the "unfortunate" people that I may hurt by not recommending their employment. Generally it is because they are lazy, stupid, or dishonest. This is a judgement call on my part, and others are free to take or discard my recommendations based on my reputation. Here is my recommendation for you. Take my "unemployables" list. Hire everyone on it. Try to run a business without going broke. Hiring people based on reputation is a system that works. I'm sorry if this impinges on your sensibilities. Reality has a tendency to do that though. Clay ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

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Re: Crypto Bounties
by Ian Grigg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

azur(a)netcom.com wrote: > Why not the free market rate the programmers. Have a software > distribution/payment collection system which requires that the programmer > get a completion bond from a 3rd-part insurance company. If the programmer > fails to deliver as promised and/or on-time the donding company pays the > 'investors' back in full. Since the bonding company's money would be at > risk, if the programmer failed to deliver, they have every incentive to > conservatively rate the programmers/companies offering ot build SW to spec. What you are essentially doing is buying reputation I guess, although I am not familiar with completion bonds, so I the following is mostly conjecture on their nature. There are two major feature/bugs with the completion bond. Firstly, it requires the bonding company to make a judgement, and this adds a weak point into the link. That judgement will then result in a lot of emphasis on the fine print of the contract, and fundamentally, software doesn't work very well when fine print gets involved. The notion of "completion" especially sits oddly with the scenario described, where freeware of mostly source form gets distributed to a wide group of programmers who can adjust minor problems fairly easily. I would guess that when EDS delivers a product, there are completion ("penalty") clauses, but when the Internet was "delivered" there was no such clause. Secondly, the existance of an intermediary points to a major inefficiency in the market. Whilst your joy at paying intermediaries may vary, historically, intermediaries follow a pattern of building barriers to entry, raising charges, and slowing innovation. This is theory that is generally applicable in practice, and it is for this reason that the emphasis in my post was on removing the single point of guaruntee. In the context, I would also question the nature of a financial entity that was willing to sell its reputation to cryptoanarchists. > >[slash] However, I like this viewpoint because it > >eliminates the need for judges. History shows that a good market > >microstructure will beat an authority approach in the long run. By aiming for no single point of judgement, the only solution that we found was to rely on a multi-shot game, with past reputation leading to up-front payment leading to confirmation of reputation. As it happens, the bonding companies will rely heavily on reputation as well, in its varying forms, anyway. snow(a)smoke.suba.com originally asked: > >> Has anything like this been proposed before? > > Yes, Eric Hughes proposed a broad and structured proposal primarily > addressing this manner of market funding for software development (and > possibly suitable for other intellectual property creation) at DEFCON IV. > My previous comments on completion bonds were taken from his presentation. Yes, I saw that earlier post, and did a quick search for it but no luck. If any one can point us at the paper, that would be useful. On a slightly related note - is there any interest in setting up a mailgroup for programmers and designers of markets? There's plenty of cash stuff out there but I know of no forums for trading of fungible items. -- iang iang(a)systemics.com

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Re: [NOISE] U.S. CIA employee caught spying
by trei＠process.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim Scanlon <tfs(a)adsl-122.cais.com> writes: > This is on the local DC news; > Harold Nicholson age 46, a CIA employee was arrested for spying today > at Dulles airport. He allegedly has been working for the Russians > for the past 2 years. > He was caught after he failed a series of polys, and bank account > irregularities had been noticed, as well as suspcious travel. > They got him on hidden video apperently photocopying documents > that he intended to pass along. > Tim If he's found guilty, I hope that they throw the book at the traitor. He apparently was a trainer of agents, and as such was in a positiona to identify many to the Russians. I wonder how many died so he could earn his $140,000? Peter Trei trei(a)porcess.com

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