December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: AP Protocol Failures [NOISE]
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:37 PM 9/26/96 -0500, snow wrote: >> >> Troops are in Northern Ireland for a very simple and depressing >> >> reason. People like Jim want to impose their will on others by force. >> But AP is great - adding more violence to Ireland is just the thing >> they need........ > > It wouldn't ADD more violence. I had intended to respond to Bill Stewart's comment before this. I was surprised that he would suggest that AP would (necessarily?) cause "more violence." To me, it's obvious that it will cause _different_ violence, and I strongly suspect it'll actually reduce the total violence level, and certainly will do so in the long term. But far more than reducing violence, it'll reduce coercion that doesn't rise to the level of violence as well. When people AREN'T put in jail or prison for a victimless crime, I consider that a drastic reduction in coercion, and that's progress. Put fewer people in jail, and you anger fewer people, and you rob fewer people by taxation to pay for that jail, etc. >> One of the strong negatives of AP is that it leads to reverse AP - >> if you don't know _which_ Hatfield killed the latest McCoy, >> you might as well just shoot one or two Hatfield Boys at random. >> If you kill off GrandDaddy Hatfield, there's nobody to say >> "OK, let's stop shooting each other"; instead there's a bunch of >> angry grandkids, and uncles, _all_ of whom have the >> authority to say "Let's go kill the McCoy bastards who did this!" >> The protocols may work when there's one hierarchical target - >> they don't work with two. Hammurabi's law about "An eye for an eye >> and a tooth for a tooth" was a _limitation_ on the amount of vengeance >> you were allowed to take, not a minimum required vengeance. > > Putting AP into place doesn't make murder legal. You could still >be arrested, tried (depending on the jurisdiction) and punished for it. Not only that, you could use AP to kill somebody who killed SOMEBODY ELSE with AP! (which is, to me, a rather obvious fact, but one that escapes an unusually large number of people. 'course, you'd have to figure out who did it... a non-trivial task under the circumstances.) Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Hallam-Baker demands more repudiations or he'll write!
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 26 Sep 96 at 16:51, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Anonymity and nonescrowed crypto are the linchpins of AP and its > more general case, Maysian crypto anarchy. The withering of the > nation-state. Whatever you want to call it. > > To prevent it, governments will ban both. A criminal law, passed in > the wake of say a bombing this fall in Washington, DC, banning > nonescrowed crypto. (Freeh will assert he has evidence the > terrorists used PGPhone.) And another law banning online anonymity. I agree with the prediction but the cause will probably not be AP. AP could probably be run from BBS and direct link over a very informal and loose network made out of individual modem connections. I think it is very unlikely it would get succesfully stopped. It could even be run from physically exchanged diskettes. It would run slowly, but still, it would run. OTOH, the "Maysian" crypto anarchy will be a much more immediate problem to govts. "L'argent est le nerf de la guerre",or, loosely translated: "money is war's fuel" as we say... When they start getting financially starved, they'll have to increase taxation but the population already have them in very low esteem... AP, with a properly structured media campaing, will make govts heroes, Maysian anarchy will make them seen as looters. Did I put my foot in my mouth again? > What then, Mr. Bell? > > -Declan > // declan(a)eff.org // I do not represent the EFF // declan(a)well.com Jean-Francois Avon, Montreal QC Canada DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee Finest Limoges porcelain and crystal JFA Technologies, R&D consultant physicists and engineers, LabView programming PGP keys at: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon ID# C58ADD0D : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891

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Re: Hallam-Baker demands more repudiations or he'll write!
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 27 Sep 96 at 0:21, Simon Spero wrote: > On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > Anonymity and nonescrowed crypto are the linchpins of AP and its > > more general case, Maysian crypto anarchy. The withering of the > > nation-state. > > If I might dare a crypto-related comment as well; it also requires > an absolutely trusted third-party to manage the funds and issue the > ecash used to pay the murderer, (sorry, fortunate gambler). The > reason why the third party must be trusted by both the payers and > the gambler, and thus cannot be anonymous (only at 'best' > pseduonymous) should be obvious. For the payer, the ammount involved is so small that he might thing it is worth a shot to put the price of two bottles of beer "just in case" it works. As the system gets known, it'll gain reputation. For the hitman, this is another story, but there is a way. AP, a sensationalistically choosen name (No, Jim, I know... you intended it only as a joke) very badly describes what the server does. It could accept donations for all sorts of things, many of them being legally unconsequential. So, a potential hitman group could make donations for anybody who would predict any kind of event and see if they would pay. The server could not even know if these would be integrity tests or legitimate donations. IMO, there is only one way to prevent AP: it is by preventing the advent of e-cash. Making it illegal to issue such currency, and seize and prosecute heavily if any of it is found. This would includes, of course, gold (or other material value) e-tokens, etc. It will come from a total control of money. Can it be done? I doubt it very stronly. jfa Did you give away a copy of PGP to a friend today? Please Cc me any reply, I am not on Cypherpunks anymore. Thanks.

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Re: Weaknesses in Smart Cards? (Re: FLA_wed)
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Its worse than that. The Bellcore piece was presented as being about a possible weakness in MONDEX. In fact MONDEX does not use the cryptographic technique investigated. Its a symmetric key (DES) based system. I would immagine they would keep a symmetric component even if they go for a public key system. BTW if you think carefully about MONDEX you will note that a public key system does not improve security. The system depends on private keys embedded in the devices. There is no value in having the devices use public key signatures over symetric ones. Phill PS whats the betting that anyone at a high profile site who happens to be offline for a few hours to (say) change service providers will be reported as having been "hacked"?

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Re: Tamper-Resistant Software from INTEL
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:57 PM 9/26/96 -0500, snow wrote: >Mr. Guthery >> Has anybody heard of tamper-resistant software in general or a method >> for tamper-resistant software from Intel in particular? > > What do you mean by "tamper resistant"? It means that if you do *ANYTHING* to try and adjust, modify, and/or configure the software, it no longer functions. Sadly, Microsoft has beat them to the punch on this technology. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Call for Papers
by Enzo Michelangeli 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FYI... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 09:49:03 EDT From: Nick Maxemchuk <nfm(a)research.bell-labs.com> To: apc(a)ee.nthu.edu.tw, apc_members(a)hornbill.ee.nus.sg, commsoft(a)cc.bellcore.com, enternet(a)bbn.com, ietf(a)CNRI.Reston.VA.US, itc(a)fokus.gmd.de, multicomm(a)cc.bellcore.com, tccc(a)cs.umass.edu Subject: Call for Papers CALL FOR PAPERS IEEE Journal on Selected Areas in Communications COPYRIGHT AND PRIVACY PROTECTION Significant investments are now being made worldwide to develop an infrastructure for on-line services and electronic commerce. A major impediment is the lack of effective protection of copyright for content owners and of privacy for users. Digital data can be easily copied and redistributed widely without any loss of fidelity. One promising idea is to discourage illicit distribution by watermarking digital objects with hidden copyright messages to proclaim ownership and unique identifiers to help trace pirates. The techniques of information hiding are in many ways related to mechanisms that can be used to protect the anonymity of system users by concealing address, location and routing information. The problem becomes even more interesting when privacy protection and copyright protection must be combined in the same system. We seek fundamental papers on watermarking of digital data, on techniques for anonymous communications, and design and analysis of systems that protect copyright and/or privacy. A partial list of topics is as follows: + watermarking of digital data + anonymous communications + steganography + covert and subliminal channels in networks protocols + combining copyright and privacy protection + experiments and attacks + tradeoffs between performance and security Prospective authors should email their manuscripts (PostScript format only) or send six hard copies to one of the Guest Editors listed below, according to the following schedule. Please direct all email enquiries to slow(a)ee.mu.oz.au. Manuscript Due: March 1, 1997 Acceptance Notification: August 1, 1997 Final Manuscript Due: November 1, 1997 Publication Date: 2nd Quarter 1998 Ross Anderson Ingemar Cox Cambridge University Computer Lab NEC Research Pembroke Street 4 Independence Way Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. Princeton NJ 08540, USA Tel: +44 1223 33 47 33 Tel: +1 609 951 2722 Fax: +44 1223 33 46 78 Fax: +1 609 951 2482 Email: ross.anderson(a)cl.cam.ac.uk Email: ingemar(a)research.nj.nec.com Steven Low Nicholas Maxemchuk Dept. of Electrical Electronic Engr. ATT Laborataries University of Melbourne 600 Mountain Ave. Parkville, Vic 3052, Australia Murray Hill NJ 07974, USA Tel: +6 13 9287 9205 Tel: +1 908 582 6240 Fax: +6 13 9287 9188 Fax: +1 908 582 5807 Email: slow(a)ee.mu.oz.au Email: nfm(a)research.att.com

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radikal-mirror list as of 27-9-1996
by tank 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Receive Radikal 154 by email: Send a empty message to radikal(a)xs4all.nl and you receive issue 154 by mail. http: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bslash/radikal/radikal.tar.gz Radikal-site unix http://www.xs4all.nl/~bslash/radikal/radi.zip Radikal-site dos-zip ftp: ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/incoming Radikal 154 in plaintext ASCII http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal/radi154.tgz Radikal 154 unix archive http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal/radi154.zip Radikal 154 dos-zip archive If you got your mirror up and running let us know <tank(a)xs4all.nl> Special mirror: de.soc.zensur de.org.politik.spd Radikal-sites: 1.BACK ONLINE http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal 2.BACK ONLINE http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/radikal 3.http://huizen.dds.nl/~tank/radikal 4.http://burn.ucsd.edu/%7Eats/RADIKAL/ 5.http://www.jca.or.jp/~taratta/mirror/radikal/ 6.http://www.serve.com/~spg/ 7.http://huizen.dds.nl/~radikal 8.http://www.canucksoup.net/radikal/index.html 9.http://www.ecn.org/radikal 10.http://www.well.com/~declan/mirrors/ 11.http://www.connix.com/~harry/radikal/index.htm 12.http://www.ganesa.com/radikal/ 13.http://www.denhaag.org/~radikal 14.http://www.knooppunt.be/~daniel/radikal 15.http://emma.unm.edu/radikal 16.http://www.tacacs.com/radikal/" 17.http://www.dsvenlo.nl/~vvd/radikal/ 18.http://www.why.net/home/static/radi 19.http://users.abcs.com/dockmstr/mirror/radikal/index.htm 20.http://home.ipr.nl/~radikal/ 21.http://www.dreamy.demon.co.uk/occam/ 22.http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~irdial/live_free/ 23.http://zero.tolerance.org/radi/index.htm 24.http://www.meaning.com/library/radikal/ 25.http://www.walli.uwasa.fi/~tviemero/radikal 26.http://www.sko.it/~sfede/radi/index.htm 27.http://www.bart.nl/~sz/index.html 28.http://bellp.med.yale.edu/index.htm 29.http://www.euronet.nl/users/funest/radi/index.htm 30.http://fine.com/~rsr/radikal 31.http://www.lab.net/radikal 32.http://www.charm.net/~gbarren/radikal 33.http://login.datashopper.dk/~pethern/radikal/ 34.http://www.interlaw.com 35.http://hyperreal.com/~rich/radikal/index.html 36.http://www.citinv.it/iniziative/info/radikal/ 37.http://radikal.autono.net./rad 38.http://www.digiforest.com/~richards/radikal/ 39.http://brazil.nbn.com/radikal/ 40.http://pitel-lnx.ibk.fnt.hvu.nl/~madcat 41.http://www.hongo.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~ss56012/radikal/ 42.http://web.inter.nl.net/users/E.P.van.der.Vlis/radikal/ 43.http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~fubuki71/mirror/radikal/ 44.http://mars.let.uva.nl/~bram/radikal/ 45.http://www.design.nl/~bram/radikal/ 46.http://www.eskimo.com/~quawk/radikal/ 47.http://www.luc.ac.be/~2sbs0 a passtrue page to xs4all and the radikal pages. 48.http://www.calyx.com/~refuse/radikal/ 49.http://www.altair.it/xxv 50.http://www.c2.net/radikal 51.http://www.grfn.org/~rtwo 52.http://www.grfn.org:4380 xs4all port mirror 53.http://www.cyberpass.net/radikal 54.http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeroenw/radikal/ 55.http://catalog.com/jamesd/radikal/ 56.http://www.islandnet.com/~hendrik/RADIKAL.html

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Re: ssh - How widely used?
by Chris Wedgwood 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:From: martin hamilton <M.T.Hamilton(a)lboro.ac.uk> :To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com :cc: ssh(a)clinet.fi :Subject: Re: ssh - How widely used? : :On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Adam Shostack wrote: : :> Theres a windows version, mac is under vauge development. SSH :> is pretty cool, but the code base is somewhat messy, and its shows :> signs of its origins in things like systems calls not having their :> return values checked. : :Shame it costs $$$, though I appreciate that Tatu needs to eat... ;-) : :Perhaps Cedomir Igaly could be persuaded to release the source code to the :Windows port he did ? Anyone else interested in getting a little group :together to hack on this ? (under GPL or BSD style copyright) : :Martin I have a hackery botch job that I have done to make ssh run in a Windows NT console session (untested under '95, but should work). The trouble is it contains a mix of commercial code (which I do not own and cannot distribute) and GNU code. Thus, I can use it myself - but not distribute it. I was speaking to someone yesterday about this, as I was at one stage thinking I may get the code cleaned up as much as possible (ie. only contain GNU code) and release it to the masses to play with. Eventually it might turn out to be something of use... Doing this would, perhaps, undermine Datafellows and Tatu somewhat. As someone who writes code to put food on the table, I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing this. Tatu has spent a whole heap of time on this, doing so wouldn't be fair this early. A freely available, albeit with no guarantee or support and fewer features version of ssh would surely effect sales to a reasonable extent? I would recommend people buy the product. If you fell it too expensive, then complain to datafellows about this. Eventually the make take some notice of these complaints, or have alternate pricing structures that make the product more attractive for your needs. IMO its not terribly expensive. Chris P.S. (Any replies to this please cc to me of ssh(a)clinet.fi as I don't read CP very often)

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Public Schools
by ronsimpson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I hate to burst any bubbles but, the school with the highest number of National Merit Finalists and highest number of 1600 SATs is a Public High School (Jefferson High in Fairfax, VA)

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