December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

[Rant]Re: Shell buys key escrow system from TIS
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Will Rodger,<rodger(a)interramp.com> Washington Bureau Chief of Inter@ctive Week, wrote: <snips> >Administration officials didn't return calls for comment, but it's clear >that the Clinton-Gore team have their first "testbed" for trying out key >recovery, or key escrow, proposals. Hmmm. A new meme, "key recovery" is lots better than "key escrow," but I still wonder if I'm ever gonna see a journalist say, "'GAK,' or Govt. Access to Keys for cryptography." >...The multinational company will self-escrow, that is handle >all encryption keys itself, in cooperation with the British government, >sources close to the deal said. I'm left wondering about a few cooperation-with-the-corporation issues here regarding the Brit.govt, but I suppose time will tell how much of Orwell is coming true in his own homeland. >Walker declined to name the company, but several Washington-based sources >confirmed the buyer is Royal Dutch Shell. Largest corporation in the world, if I'm not mistaken. >The deal represent the first time that a foreign buyer has purchased a US >key escrow product without escrowing keys in the US. ... [I can hear Gore/Gorelick now, "Well, as long as it goes to SOME big government (with a road-to-serfdom track record in economic freedom) it's OK by me!"] >Walker, widely credited with devising the controversial commerical key >escrow system now being promoted by the current administration, claimed >"there really is an important issue here in finding a balance between the >interest of government and those of industry. ... I suppose we will hear after the election of the balance between the interests of government and those of indIVIDUALS. I always see this image of me, sitting on one end of a see-saw, with former congressman Rostenkowski on the other end. JMR PS Anyone who has had the pleasure of meeting my pal Joey Grasty would NEVER question his cypherpunk (or U.S.) patriotism. Regards, Jim Ray -- DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy "It is long past time to end the laughable presumption that voters who can easily cope with the choices offered at Burger King are somehow 'confused' by more than two choices at the voting booth." -- me, in the Miami Herald, June 24, 1996, p. 10A. Defeat the Duopoly! Vote "NOTA," not Slick/Dull in November. Harry Browne for President. Jo Jorgensen for Vice-president. http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/ ___________________________________________________________________ PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 <mailto:liberty@gate.net> http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray Coming soon, the "Pennies For Perot" page. Keep billionaires off welfare! ___________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQCVAwUBMfdJNm1lp8bpvW01AQGLOAQAkHzibmIw8OKsbUqFjRXy/MrkVhszA+8l z+RmUoLy52D85ZpTsSivwyPGybeAyTs/V3IGiZx8WX8tBIIdyiFHNWlesjsShiro sTVx+a8qXZ1NSS8KMIScfqh3piXjnDJWeDqbFsZAM+JvHIREzASSrky2Xhb0/fIv ITuwCG7P22A= =2+iV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Parsing John Youn (Re: OPS_nuk)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim asked for a translation. I thought it was one of John's more declarative summaries. It this case, it's reality that's skewed. Voila: >At 3:30 PM 7/24/96, John Young wrote: >> The WSJ Page Ones a loser's game There is an article on the first page of the Wall Street Journal about financial losses... >> about the CIA's role in >> promoting Japanese pachinko cards to halt the surreptitious >> funneling of betting cash to the construction of a North >> Korean nuclear plant. The Central Intelligence Agency told the Japanese government that Pachinko parlors (many run by ethnic Koreans) were sending hard currency to North Korea which was assisting it in building a plant to produce fissionable materials. The Japanese decided to strong arm Pachinko parlors into using magnetic cards instead of cash to discourage money laundering. >> And the op's nuking by the Kobe quake >> looting of card-reading mechanisms, cracking encryption >> codes, and counterfeiting not-so-smart cards for counter- >> tipping the house fix. Mondex, watcher bleedin arse. During the Kobe earthquake recovery, a number of Pachinko machines were stolen, reverse engineered, and fake cards produced. They were then cashed in -- causing massive losses to the issuers. The encryption technology was very weak. Mondex watch out that the same thing doesn't happen to you. DCF "I've been translating engineers into English for years. John's no problem."

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Re: A Global Village; an open letter to Bill & Hill and also Mr. & Mrs. Dole, from Asim at Molecule One. Cypherpunks, please excuse this note.
by pjb＠ny.ubs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

really relevent to this list, way to go asim. what if we all choose to clutter this list with our own little hot buttons? -paul > From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Wed Jul 24 18:20:55 1996 > X-Sender: molecul1(a)molecule1.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3b4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:48:32 -0700 > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > From: molecul1(a)molecule1.com (Molecule One Scientific Research Institute) > Subject: A Global Village; an open letter to Bill & Hill and also Mr. & Mrs. Dole, from Asim at Molecule One. Cypherpunks, please excuse this note. > Cc: molecul1(a)molecule1.com > Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Content-Length: 4562 > > Honourable wishes, > > I write about Mrs. Clinton's concept of Global Village and wholeheartedly, > pledge my support to such an important concept. > > The world is everchanging and Mrs. Clinton is correct in that the > industrialized > countries have lost, most, of their extended families. This makes children > vulnerable to danger. If in need of help, such children are commonly abused > due to their vulnerability. > > I want to take this moment to express some understandings. Firstly, it > was never in my plan to locate where I have been over the last while. > Probably, if it hadn't been for many malicious encounters, I probably > would of gone to a remote island, as I hold so dear to my heart. A > close friend was severly violated and I had to witness a war being > fought against civillians. When an insurance policy becomes more > valuable than the human life, something must be wrong with social > ethics. > > To live through many of the experiences I had to, while living here, > made me realize high technology is dangerous in many peoples > lives. To manipulate peoples decisions using brute force seemed > terribly wrong to me. Many of the people controlling the situations > are also stressed out. Abuse results from stress. > > Concerning the old man. I knew of this man since childhood. I > always considered him one of the greatest neuroscientists > on the planet earth. Even his friends hold him with a greatest > respect. What he accomplished, very few could match his > accomplishments. > > I send much thanks to Point Communications for allowing me > a long interview about my social concerns. I wanted to personally > thank all the K12 students that partook in my interview. I was > never able to attend the requests of some of those students, > that asked me to review some of their essays, as my time > was occupied with endless other obstacles. I want those > students to understand that I just couldn't. > > I want to thank all those cool students that let me participate > at their, private, dance parties. They know I attended endless > dance parties, researching technological requirements, > so they are happy and socially satisfied. I also got to > know what kind of social threats they are faced with, both, > underground and official. Stress does tend to corrupt some > people. > > I want you to understand that I came up with Molecule One > as a means to address the needs of a culture. Even though > many plots were directed at me for proposing this project, > I always knew I spoke the truth and my intentions were > pure. Neurosciences has always been a lifelong inspiration > to me. Standards, to improve the quality of life in society, > seemed a noble goal. > > I want the students to know that Molecule One was > created for their benefit first. They are the future. When > a child remains innocent, that innocence should be > protected. Far too often, children loose their innocence > to hardend people, who's primary motive is malicious > intent. Naivete and innocence is purity and lack of > ethical standard is rampent. > > I knew that acceptance of truth is difficult for > some people, especially those ignorant and those > conditioned to believe otherwise. I always chose > positive as an outcome for motive. > > I want to thank all of you, Republican, Democrat, > and families, friends and which other political > inspiration. I respect all life and those standards that > can increase the health standard of all people. There > are many important factors that must be considered > to insure a safe and healthy society, of the > future. To work together, to attain this standard, > is important for all people, irregardless of color. > Care and courtesy, toward our fellow people, > is another social characteristic that is becoming > lost, with the loss of the extended family. > > I also want to thank all those cool computer folk > that let me play upon the info highway, as it was > being developed. I want to thank all those > cyberfolk that recognised the import of all > topics covered. Understand well, visions of > tropical islands have floated through my mind, > probably, everyday I've been here. It was > my concern for the youth and for the elderly > that made me stay and attempt to create > a project that could bring happiness and > harmony, to the society, for a long time to > come. It is a challenge. > > Thanks for the cyber inspiration, acknowledgement > and being allowed the opportunity to create a > work of art that can benefit so many. > > To the 1'st family & 2 Mr.& Mrs. Dole, all friends and families. > > Peace and best wishes, > Sincerely, > > Asim > molecul1(a)molecule1.com > >

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RPK Public Key Cryptography
by Stephen Cobb 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

New algorithm from outside US, new crypto challenge? My apologies to the list if this subject is old hat but someone just pointed me to the RPK Public Key Cryptography site and I was wondering what people thought of this particular technology. The RPK Public Key Cryptography site at http://crypto.swdev.co.nz/ says: Have a look at this new approach to information privacy, designed and developed in New Zealand. The RPK public key cryptosystem provides industrial-strength public key cryptography that's available worldwide. You'll find full technical information, free evaluation software and development tools, and details of our SafeCracker Challenge program where you can earn a $$$ REWARD $$$ while trying to put us out of business! The inventor and developer of the RPK system is aparently Dr. William M.Raike who holds a US patent as co-inventor of scrambler which NSA banned in the US. The Nicolai/Raike case attracted some media attention and, after the NSA rescinded the order, it was one of the first instances in which an NSA director commented publicly on patent secrecy issues. That invention had its roots in spread spectrum technology. Note sure if that has any bearing on the public key offering. Note that I have no connection with this person, software or site, just natural curiousity about what cypherpunks think about it. Stephen Cobb, CISSP

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Schelling Points, Rights, and Game Theory--Part II
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)got.net wrote: >I believe the game-theoretic and evolutionary approaches, mixed in with >economics, offer the most solid grounding for the discussion of rights. I'll try keep my response brief, because I seem to swerve between didactic and sarcastic without being able to stop in between. As others have said, look where I'm pointing, not at what I'm pointing with. So here goes... Basically, in this view of rights and raising of children it would seem that a relativistic pragmatism prevails. Personally, I think that the two choices are either this relative pragmatism or an absolute morality. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Some implications of Tim's view is that all our rights are basically a transitory agreement between individuals. If at any time the "cost" of a right becomes too high for too many (e.g. free speech leading to X for some X), then it is quite possible that this "right" will be removed. The "losers" have no higher appeal process in this matter than that of trying to gain a different consensus. This may work while there is not a large power gap between any two individuals or groups, but as power shifts to fewer people and groups (economic, social, political, etc...) the "losers" may find that the lowest cost path is into some form of economic serfdom or slavery (e.g. McJobs). Ask Phil for other examples ;-). Unlike Rawls, we are not in a position of developing our laws in advance of determining our social standing. I personally believe that our ability to develop reasonable laws and social structures will persist only as long as the majority of us have the ability to "put ourselves in someone else's shoes" and do in practical terms what Rawls suggests in theoretical ones. As soon as those with power are not able to see a situation where they could become like those without power, there will cease to be motivation to maintain a "safety net" of rights or economic means to protect the "losers" of our society. James

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Re: Digital Watermarks (long, getting off-topic)
by Alex F 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >>Isn't it odd that when music is sold, CD's are MORE expensive than cassette > >>tapes, even though you _know_ that the manufacturing cost of CD's is less? > > > >CDs sell for more because buyers decided that they wanted a wider range of > >titles with shallower sales (hence higher unit costs) rather than a narrower > I'm afraid that quantitatively, this is utter nonsense. > > A relevant data point is the fact that for about $1000, anybody can have > 1000 copies of a custom CDROM manufactured. That, by music industry The real; answer to all of these points is too simple. "Because they can" A lot has to do with percieved value. If consumers would have thought that the prices were way too high, then the market would have dictated a lower cost eventually. I think that the price of CDs vs tapes is more a marketing issue than a technical one.... Alex F =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alex F alexf(a)iss.net Marketing Specialist Internet Security Systems =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Re: Digital Watermarks for copy protection in recent Billbo
by Alex F 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >> To go to trial, an indictment would be needed. How likely is this? > > > >The likelyness is irrelevant to the point. Possibility is relevant. > >Probability is not. > > "Likeliness" is _always_ relevent when discussing law. I disagree. The CDA is not likely to ever get enforced. Does this mean that we should just ignore it because likeliness is zero to none? > Thus, the guy who buys a bicycle that later turns out to have been stolen, > will usually lose the bicycle, but is not knowingly receiving stolen > property and hence is guilty of no crime. And no DA will charge him; the > courts and jails are already clogged up enough. Uhh, if the DA has a personal vendetta against the guy w/ the bike he *COULD* charge him, if he wanted to, and it would be 100% legal. What we are talking about here are laws that allow for harrassment under the guise of the legal system. Granted, laws are not necedssarily bad, people are, but still.... This stuff CAN and DOES (there goes the "likeliness" theory) happen all the time. Your point of view strikes as one from a text book where people are not crooked (nothing wrong w/ that), but the sad fact is that there are people out there who can and will take advantage of any legal loophole in order to get done what they want done. Alex F > I maintain that this "wiggle factor" in the law is not something to get > worried about ("But they _could_ arrest me for buying a book stolen 10 > years ago! We've got to do something!) and is, in fact, essential in any > justice system. There just is no "automated" or "formal" system, and > probably/hopefully never will be. > > --Tim May > > > > Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! > We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alex F alexf(a)iss.net Marketing Specialist Internet Security Systems =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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One of the biggest problems with freedom
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What our biggest problem is, is that people want the government to protect them from the oh so evil terrorists, and they will willingingly have shackles put on them, and rejoice when it is done. I know people who WANT the government to take away their rights for security, and its a lot of people, and its far too many people. Example: "I don't care if the government has my keys for encryption. I don't do anything wrong, and if it helps FBI enforce our just laws, I am all for it. Since anyone who tries to get keys without legal means will end up in Leavenworth for the rest of their life, there is no problems with people getting access to those things." When I try to refute the logic: "I don't care about the bill of rights... I don't want to have to split my family up on separate flights so there is a chance of some of them arriving without dying. I want the security of knowing I can fly okay without being blown up, thank you very much. Signapore has little or no crime since the people give up their rights for a common good." Problem with freedom is people don't use it... and like a limb, will wither and fall off if not used. Our basic item should be trying to get the masses to figure out that freedom is important and should not be construed as a gift from the government.

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Benchin' Registration
by benchmaster＠benchin.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Random! Thank you for registering as a Benchin' member! You have the privilege of reviewing software, participating in discussion groups, and winning prizes! Take this opportunity to help your fellow software seekers by reviewing your share of software products. Do 25 and get your beanie! At any Benchin' log-in screen type: User Name: rjnerd Password: 43095 You may want to change your password to one which is easier to remember. Click on the "Members" menu item, then the "Log-In" link, and enter your log-in. Then click the "Change Password" link. And if you ever forget it, we can e-mail it to you! (Just click the "Members" menu item and then "You forgot Your Log-In?") Thank You! - The Benchin' Team (Have you earned your beanie yet?) Benchin' Software Review - http://www.benchin.com/

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Re: Twenty Bank Robbers -- Game theory:)
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:09 AM 7/25/96 -0500, Igor Chudov wrote: >Here's a puzzle for our game theorists. > >Twenty cypherpunks robbed a bank. They took 20 million bucks. Here's >how they plan to split the money: they stay in line, and the first guy >suggests how to split the money. Then they vote on his suggestion. If >50% or more vote for his proposal, his suggestion is adopted. > >Otherwise they kill the first robber and now it is the turn of guy #2 >to make another splitting proposal. Same voting rules apply. > >The question is, what will be the outcome? How will they split the >money, how many robbers will be dead, and so on? My guess? They all agree to kill whoever made that suicidal rule. Otherwise, all but two would end up dead. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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