December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Simulations
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:05 PM 8/28/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: >To me, the most obvious one is GIGO: Simulations, especially >political/social ones, might depend heavily on assumptions that are >programmed into them. A trivial, yet interesting example is the computer >game "Sim City" which allowed you to adjust the "tax rate" but problems >always cropped up the further away you were from 7%. The libertarians were >frustrated that we were unable to drop the tax rate and still get a >well-functioning, happy society. I was taking economics back in the Armonk Iron days and we played around with an economic simulation program written in Fortran. One was supposed to adjust government spending and taxes to find an optimum level. I set both taxes and spending to zero. We got a lot of economic growth and a lot of inflation (this was not a monetarist simulation). But we were happier. DCF

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MSIE cryptography
by John Hemming - CEO MarketNet 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just downloaded the most recent English Version 2.1 for Windows 3.1. This does appear to do the same in terms of no encryption at all after the server hello. To be fair to Microsoft the number of cycles performed for the private key echange is quite high. Therefore, not having any key and not doing the RSA calculations makes the access quite a bit faster. The older versions (and some Win95 versions) that we have found around seem to just crash our server. I am not really feeling like debugging that.

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Re: Thoughts on CyberTerrorism {per request}
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: whgiii(a)amaranth.com, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Aug 29 15:45:06 1996 > The issue of cyberterrorism can be divided into 3 main parts: > Catastrophic Terrorist Attack > Major Criminal Attack > Minor Hacker Attacks > The CyberTerrorist > The CyberTerrorist/Mad Scientist > The Computer Criminal > The Hacker It seems that you have a very broad view as to what constitutes terrorism. According to you, somebody who hacks into a system is a cyberterrorist. It seems, that would make a burglar a real life terrorist, too. So, to state my point: you use the word cyberterrorism in conjunction with ALL possible attacks on a system. Did I get that definition right? If not, why not? Greetings, Remo Pini - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMiWe5BFhy5sz+bTpAQGf5gf+L6Mkx4rqvdvsWe84j2TzLYaeOpbO7VCe S1Ia3EC9rByfXK71zmDCWRd7bTdmRULq297dD/Aqr7KWSEEtsBpQCLs8tGiPCV3I S+M613ud6Uy9QXtIyw14Ao7XILijWUDU2Hdwb5xfmJ/GIIQiZyDjMVLDXABM7rgb 4d+5AP+gh6VTRNqd2LmhwcvhUoupeJ40QxlRyOJ2A4ZNT7xaS7shUPnbS5kcuSrF z27nRmnaPkRmh3VD870OIoTRsWUOIQ9lwUkXrPdly9w8E23FyuXGPEMkW+KdUCNZ 6hI7YYsBnCJjM+aUzq3Ypt/N/iUcbPvKO4T+FtbKJHB15IbtDTUr4A== =pg+4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Realtime Keyserver update
by Osborne, Rick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First off, let me say thank you to all of those who responded to my first message, I gained alot of useful information. Mark Rogaski <wendigo(a)pobox.com> and I have decided to write up a RFC on it and are going through the initial stages of deciding on its functionality. We would appreciate any and all useful input on the subject. All ideas are welcome. You can email my autoresponder (at this same address) to get the latest information on what we've decided. Just make the subject GET KEYSERVER INFO for the response. Thank you for your interest and help. Rick Osborne

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List owner named in law suit (fwd)
by Damien Lucifer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:52:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Clay Irving <clay(a)panix.com> Subject: List owner named in law suit I can't believe this one! Peter Laws, a recent graduate of the University of Arkansas, maintains an electronic mailing list called "SCAN-L". The list is provided for radio scanning enthusiasts. There are a few hundred subscribers to the list. Recently, in a thread about scanning publications, an employee of publication "A" apparently wrote something to offend someone at publication "B". Lo and behold, next thing you know, Peter is named in a lawsuit because he is the maintainer of the list. Something seems very, very wrong with this. I've never heard of anything like this before. Can a Email list maintainer be held liable for something someone else writes? Peter *just* graduated, and he needs all the help he can get. Thanks, in advance. -- Clay Irving N2VKG clay(a)panix.com http://www.panix.com/~clay/

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Re: MSIE cryptography
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Hemming - CEO MarketNet" <johnhemming(a)mkn.co.uk> writes: > Just downloaded the most recent English Version 2.1 for Windows 3.1. > This does appear to do the same in terms of no encryption at all after > the server hello. > > To be fair to Microsoft the number of cycles performed for the private key > echange is quite high. Therefore, not having any key and not doing the > RSA calculations makes the access quite a bit faster. > > The older versions (and some Win95 versions) that we have found around > seem to just crash our server. I am not really feeling like debugging that. I understand that some versions of MSIE support SSL level 3. SSL3 includes a capability to switch 'cipher suites' in mid-session, or pick one at the start of the session. One of the standard cipher suites performs authentication, but not encryption. This is consistant with your description. Please ensure that the server you are connecting to is not configured for authenticate-only. It would be a pity to raise a big ruckus over what may be just a mis-configured server. Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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Small German bank claims first with online service
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> FRANKFURT, Aug 28 (Reuter) - German private bank Gries & >Heissel Bankiers on Wednesday launched an Internet banking >service -- the first comprehensive service of its kind in a >country where online bank options are gradually taking off. > The small Berlin-based bank linked up with U.S. computer >firm Hewlett Packard Co to develop the system, which Internet >users can access using a high-security personal code. > Clients will be able to view detailed balances on their >deposit, current and securities accounts and transact all normal >banking business on the World Wide Web. > Although online banking is a developing trend on the German >financial services market, larger banks with far broader >customer bases are working on more selective Internet packages. > Thomas Gries, one of Gries & Heissel's personally-liable >directors, said he regarded Internet banking as a logical >supplement to the bank's existing services. > ``We have had an Internet home page since October 1995. This >move from a pure information medium to an interactive one was a >logical one,'' Gries said. > Banking officials attending the CEBIT electronics conference >in Hanover this week said German online banking business was >poised to grow dramatically. > ``In the next six months, five to ten German banks will be on >the Internet,'' said Stefan Schoeller, board member at Bayerische >Vereinsbank AG unit Vereins- und West Bank. > Vereinsbank plans to launch Internet services within about >six months via its Advance Bank direct unit, pending a review of >security options. > Rival discount broker Direkt Anlage Bank, a unit of >Bayerische Hypotheken- und Wechsel Bank AG, on Tuesday launched >an Internet service for its securities account holders at half >the cost of its telephone banking service. > Meanwhile market leader Deutsche Bank AG is to test >electronic cash on the Internet this autumn in a joint >initiative with Dutch electronic payments group Digicash NV. > Vereinsbank officials at CEBIT said they planned a steady >expansion of the bank's online options over the coming years, >predicting 10 to 15 percent of its current account clients would >be online by the year 2000. Around 12 million Germans would rely >on home banking by that date, the bank predicted. > At the moment, around 3.7 percent of the bank's clients, or >45,000 individuals, handle their banking via PC alone, Stefan >Schoeller said. > Hewlett-Packard's German sales manager Michael Lindner said >his company, which last year helped set up the world's first >Internet bank, Security First Network Bank, had spoken to >several other German banks about some kind of Internet venture. > ``We certainly do not plan to limit our involvement to a >small exclusive bank,'' he said. > Lindner said there were about two million Internet users in >Germany and 35 million worldwide. He admitted that the amount of >bank business transacted on the Net -- about $200 million -- was >``very limited'' but predicted a dramatic rise in volume. > Vereinsbank's Schoeller said the cost advantage alone made >it worthwhile for customers to go online. A normal current >account incurred charges of 8.40 marks a month, while the same >account online would cost just 5.40 marks, he said. > All banks are stressing the security of the Internet. > > > _______________________ Regards, Boredom is the feeling that everything is a waste of time; serenity, that nothing is. -Thomas Szasz Joseph Reagle http://rpcp.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: MSIE cryptography
by John Hemming - CEO MarketNet 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Just downloaded the most recent English Version 2.1 for Windows 3.1. >> This does appear to do the same in terms of no encryption at all after >> the server hello. >I understand that some versions of MSIE support SSL level 3. SSL3 includes a >capability to switch 'cipher suites' in mid-session, or pick one at the start of the >session. One of the standard cipher suites performs authentication, but not >encryption. This is consistant with your description. >Please ensure that the server you are connecting to is not configured for >authenticate-only. It would be a pity to raise a big ruckus over what may be >just a mis-configured server. The server is one which interoperates correctly with Netscape and my own routines. It does strike me that this change is potentially the source of the bug. However, to have a "locked" symbol on the bottom right hand of the display would indicate to me as a user that a secure session has occurred. For SSL devotees the records sent are: 1. Client hello (from the client) 2. Server hello (from the server). 3. Plaintext data packaged up in SSL records from the client. 4. The client then accepts plaintext data packaged up in SSL records. SERVER_VERSION_MSB and SERVER_VERSION_LSB indicate version 2 of SSL. I have not changed the code in any way to deal with version 3 of SSL making I think the valid presumption that browsers using 3 and 2 should be able to cope with a server using 2. I shall reboot my system, trace a bit of a session and post that.

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Re: MSIE cryptography
by John Hemming - CEO MarketNet 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For the real SSL devotees here are the first three transmissions. Client Hello 16.8 1025->443 seq 00000001 ack 00000001 PSH ACK wind 4096 data 30 80 1C 01 00 02 00 03 00 00 00 10 02 00 80 69 AE 0E F0 FA 2E 01 63 BC 59 AF 0F 1C C1 B1 7B 16.8 443->1025 seq 00000001 ack 0000001F PSH ACK wind 5640 data 590 Server Hello 82 4C 04 00 01 00 02 02 2E 00 03 00 10 (cert starts) 30 82 02 2A 30 82 01 93 02 05 26 FB 85 54 3F 30 0D 06 09 big snip of server hello (of the certificate) CC 1F BC A8 9C D7 47 41 D2 33 27 (cert has ended) 02 00 80 4A E7 13 36 E4 4B F9 BF 79 D2 75 2E 23 48 18 A5 16.9 1025->443 seq 0000001F ack 0000024F PSH ACK wind 4096 data 333 Client Master Key should be here, but instead we get 81 4B 47 45 54 20 2F 20 48 54 54 50 2F 31 2E 30 G E T sp / sp H T T P / 1 . 0 0D 0A 41 63 63 65 70 74 3A 20 2A 2F 2A 2C 20 71 Server Hello 82 4C 04 00 01 00 02 02 2E 00 03 00 10 (cert starts) 30 82 02 82 4C - SSL RECORD 04 - Server Hello 00 - Session ID Hit (no prior session) 01 - Certificate Type 00 - Server Version MSB 02 - Server Verson LSB (ie server version of SSL is 2) 02 2E - Certificate length (mainly snipped) 00 03 - Cipher specs length 00 10 - Connection ID length I think the probability is that the unusual circumstance that causes what seems clear to me as an error is that the cert is signed by a CA other than Verisign. Essentially, however, I do not think it is right for a program to display a locked key regardless of any other issues if the data being transferred is not encrypted.

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Re: Stego Virus
by Robb＠SpeakOut.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For a virus (a program) embedded in a .gif file to affect you, it would have to unsteg and then run. Just dont run it it you unsteg it. Robb Hill National Association for Home Care 228 7th Street SE Washington DC 20003 202-547-7424 202-547-9312 fax robb(a)speakout.org

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