December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

cypher-list noise levels
by Jonathon Fletcher 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Can someone on the PGPdomo cypher-list tell me how good the signal to noise ratio currently is, and how good the content is. I've not signed up, but I'm tempted to try and get away from the noise on here recently. -Jon -- Jonathon Fletcher <jonathon(a)pobox.com>

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Re: RC2 Source Code - Legal Warning from RSADSI
by jrochkin＠cs.oberlin.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:06 PM 02/01/96, baldwin wrote: >WARNING NOTICE > > It has recently come to the attention of RSA Data >Security, Inc. that certain of its confidential and >proprietary source code has been misappropriated and >disclosed. Despite such unauthorized use and disclosure, >RSA Data Security reserves all intellectual property rights >in such source code under applicable law, including without >limitation trade secret and copyright protection. In Well, now we know it really was RC2. Is there a law-knowing type out there who can tell us what's going on legally? As I understand things, RSA is just bullshitting here. When something has 'trade secret' status, the only people with legal obligations toward it are those with contractual obligations to RSA--you can only enforce 'trade secrets' through contractual obligations, non-disclosure and confidentiality agreements, etc. Once something has been disclosed, as I understand it, people without contractual obligations in regards to it are free to do whatever they want to it--trade secret status of RC2 has nothing to do with me, who has no contractual obligations to RSA regarding RC2. (Unless the license agreement for RSAref could be stretched to apply somehow, but I don't think so). Now, copyright might be another matter. But you can't copyright an algorithm, only specific text in fixed form (ie, the source code). So this would mean you couldn't use the particular code posted to sci.crypt, but wouldn't stop anyone from using the algorithm, if they wrote their own code (to be safe, without having seen the RSA-copyrighted code, only having the algorithm described to them by someone else). You can _patent_ an algorithm, but as I understand it, something can't be patented and a trade secret--you have to disclose it in full to the patent office to get a patent, at which point it's no longer a trade secret. And the legalese from RSA doesn't even mention patents anyway (because they dont' have one, of course), only copyright and 'trade secret'. I'm not a lawyer of course. Information from someone more sure of their knowledge then I am would be appreciated. But, as I understand it, they're basically making stuff up, and there is nothing stopping any of us, who haven't signed any non-disclosure agreements with RSA, from using the RC2 algorithm.

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Re: Time codes for PCs (fromn German Banking)
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:42 PM 1/29/96 +0100, JR(a)ROCK.CNB.UAM.ES wrote: >From: SMTP%"jimbell(a)pacifier.com" 27-JAN-1996 03:43:05.83 > >>A peripheral I've long wanted to see, commonly available: ACCURATE time, >>broadcast to the millisecond/microsecond/nanosecond, available from sources >>as varied as TV VIR's, FM subcarriers, and other sources, available as an >>easy input (via a peripheral card) to a computer. >> > Yup! Do you think it is really possible? If I remember well >speed of light is 300.000 Km/s. That means that light takes around >1 ms. to cover 300 Km. If you use a satellite, antenna, whatever >to broadcast a timing signal, the accuracy will depend on when >do you receive it, and that in turn on your distance from the >source. <sigh!> I am well aware of the facts you indicate, and many more of which you aren't even aware. But one of the functions (in fact, the basic, intended one) of GPS is to locate, as precisely as possible, the exact location of the receiver. Thus, time delays can be compensated to the accuracy of the location fix, at the very least. If we assume 100 meters error, max, that's about 300 nsec error. (GPS receivers AUTOMATICALLY compensate for such delays!) >>I have a 12-year-old Heathkit "Most Accurate Clock" that I assembled myself, >>and had the foresight to install it with its computer interface option. >>(receives 5, 10, or 15 MHz signals broadcast from Boulder, Colorado, >>containing "exact" time.) >> > Just remember that the best you can get would be microseconds if >you're in a 300 meter radius, or milliseconds on a 300 Km. And possibly >nanoseconds at 0.3 m. Well, this clock doesn't pretend to be better than about 5-10 milliseconds even in signal-locked condition. However, there is a dipswitch on the bottom of the unit, settable in 500 mile increments, from Boulder, Colorado. 500 miles corresponds to 3 milliseconds. Clearly this was a good device when made, but has obviously been supplanted by at least a factor of 1000 by GPS. > Then remains the cypherpunk part on all this: how can you >trust the *signal* your receptor receives? How do you know no one is >interferring it or sending an inaccurate or false one? Simple answer: You don't. More complicated answer: Most such devices don't merely input the time signal, but they use an accurate internal clock to maintain good time when signals go away. In fact, the best units "discipline" the local oscillator, either actually changing its frequency or at least following its errors over time. The result is that sudden errors would be noticed. A good TCXO is stable to well better than 1 ppm. > And that on a broadcast system. A system owned by someone who >you may not trust (say a private TV channel, radio or satellite). So >you may want to have several sources, and to be able to verify that >the signals you receive all come from their respective sources. Well, since "everybody" in one locale can receive a particular (local) TV channel, one solution might be to compare time with respect to the beginning of a particular scan line.. You may not trust the signal, but you know its a signal that "everybody" receives. There may be no other provision for adding time to it, but a relatively low accuracy crystal oscillator could identify particular frames, etc. > Yum! a nice problem to think about. One factor is that you >wouldn't expect changes in public sources used by sensible systems >since those could not pass unnoticed and might raise big protests. >But you still have the MITM attack to consider...

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No Subject
by anon-remailer＠utopia.hacktic.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Are anon remailers the only way to send anon email without giving up the source eventhough an organization has a wealth of dough/technology and several class B addresses? Couldn't they just trick their mail servers or would a nslookup/whois defeat that? And are nym accounts the only way to receive email without giving up who the intended recipient of tha mail/news post actually is?

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Tim's paranoid rant about Declan appearing on "Europe's Most Wanted"
by Just Rich 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- OK, I didn't want to sow dissension in the ranks, but this is just too much, and Declan has not given a satisfactory response to direct email. On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Timothy C. May wrote: > At 7:27 AM 2/1/96, sameer wrote: > >> I guess Declan M. won't be visting France or any of the other EU > >> countries any time soon! > > > > That reminds me of a question-- > > > > If, for example, Germany decides that my company is in > >violation of their laws for mirroring the Zundelsite, will they send > >us a letter saying that, so we know not to go to Germany? > > The Nebraska-based neo-Nazi publisher who was picked up in Denmark and > extradited to Germany pretty much knew his actions were illegal in Germany, > but I doubt (sheer speculation on my part) he had ever been formally > notified that an arrest warrant had been issued by Germany and could be > exercised in Denmark. > > The situation with Declan, Sameer, Duncan, and others, is even less clear. I disagree. It is clear to me that there is absolutely no cloud hanging over us. If any German court tried to press charges against me for posting Zendel's materials, they'd be laughed across the Argonne. Most mainstream Jewish groups *love* me right now. I find it curious, and I am beginning to get a little annoyed, that my name is rarely mentioned, though I set up the first mirror, and Declan got the files from me. I am very annoyed that Declan has not responded to repeated requests to remove the cleartext "Stanford University" from the parts of his Web site that mention me. Of course the stanford.edu, or at least net 36.190, will remain in the URL, but there is no reason that the link text could not say "Rich Graves' mirror." First Declan sent me mail saying he would respect my wishes, but he didn't. Then a friend of mine reminded Declan of my request, and Declan responded with abuse. I do not object to the cleartext "Stanford University" because anyone is pressuring me to remove the page. Far from it; almost every personal response has been positive, and the student newspaper, at www-daily.stanford.edu, is going to run a positive story tomorrow or the next day. Rather, I object simply because I do not represent Stanford University, and it is an intellectually dishonest abuse of power to suggest in any way that I do. Declan wants me to believe that this disclaimer is enough: "Please note that the existence of a web site at any particular institution does not in any way imply endorsement. Universities and businesses do not take responsibility for what their community members or customers place online." This is clearly untrue when the person in question is a staff member, as I am. Were I still a student, then I could more legitimately say that I'm a student at Stanford, and that I have the academic freedom to post whatever I want; but as someone who now merely works for a living at Stanford, I do whatever I want by the (very) good graces of my (very good) employer. Should we have forced Marianne to state her affiliation for the TV cameras last Saturday? > Things are moving much faster now that the Net is the means of > distribution. Yes, far too fast. Otherwise good people aren't thinking about what they're doing in their glee to "fight censorship." > I was of course half-joking about Declan visiting Europe, but > surely France could decide to throw the book at him, and any EU country he > entered (such as Ireland, judging from his name) could hold him at their > entry point and ship him off to France to "set an example." Bullshit. > I suspect the U.S. never officially notified that Monterrey, Mexico alleged > drug dealer that he was wanted in the U.S., and as other kidnappings of > foreigners have shown, the U.S. feels it unnecessary to formally announce > to foreigners that they may be arrested in the U.S. (or kidnapped into the > U.S.). Thus, I strongly suspect that France will not bother to notify > Declan or Sameer or any of us that they face arrest in France (or > affiliated EU countries). > > In Declan's case, I suspect France wants him for the Mitterand book and France doesn't want anyone for the Mitterand book, which was not, in fact, criminally banned. It was censured, not censored, in a civil trial. Declan is distorting the facts to suit his ego as Mr. Anti-Censorship. I find this breast-beating hype embarrassing and dishonest, and I am seriously beginning to regret giving the Zundel files to Declan. Had I known what he was going to do with them, and how he was going to behave, I would have retained closer control. One mirror site was enough. The German providers would not have blocked stanford.edu had it remained the only mirror site. The President of Stanford, Gerhard Casper, is a recognized constitutional scholar from Germany. The Stanford Provost, Condoleezza Rice, was one of the two or three people most responsible for the Bush Administration's policy towards German Unification. Dozens of Stanford students have studied in Berlin. Had they blocked stanford.edu, or had they gotten through to Stanford and somehow gotten Stanford to force me to take down the pages, then we would have set up more mirrors. I would have started, and maybe stopped, by setting up mirrors on c2.org and netcom.com. Graduated response. Germany has in fact blocked no sites beyond webcom.com. I have the patience to wait a week for the German political authorities to wake up and smell the bratwurst. Declan is himself becoming a sort of revisionist, loose with the facts. > Germany wants him for the Zundelsite mirrors. The lesser European countries > will of course follow their leads. This is ludicrous. I expect better from you. > Seriously, Declan, I admire what you've done, but I hope you don't plan to > leave the U.S. for Europe anytime soon. This is paranoid bullshit. Most of the Jewish organizations I have talked to grudgingly applaud the Zundelsite mirrors. Some actively applaud them. The Wiesenthal Center, of course, is "different." They haven't answered email, and I haven't had time to call them. Censorship is dying, destroyed by truth. Please don't spoil the party with this paranoid bullshit. Ernst Zundel is a lying Nazi asshole who wants you to believe that there is a Global Jewish Conspiracy to censor him. Fuck him. Declan, if you don't fix up your page the way I want it by morning (please not that you have three more hours of morning than I do), I will post a modified (spell-checked) version of this note on my Web page, to alt.censorship, and to your "fight-censorship" mailing list. - -rich -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMRCMdY3DXUbM57SdAQGBVgP8DOOtrKoV5bBDEICmRSlokkn91KnKdXXS 231Qv5mEWrrin9Jf8Zj80Zl/gTX/8J08s40v0vQUHi9G8It1hpzAFKz5k8lFZdTW dbcSyRMDwXz8pHvNxiGyQShZOIs1m/rnO7Z0iiuA0Y9r1+nBqeu1rQSeIyriBFUw UfWqjk8iWdk= =cODd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Tivoli
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike, Is it fair to assume that it's your Tivoli that's in the NYT and WSJ today, bought by IBM? If so, congrats on never again having to sell your body for everlasting fame and glory. Envious

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Declan appearing on "Europe's Most Wanted"
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:27 AM 2/1/96, sameer wrote: >> I guess Declan M. won't be visting France or any of the other EU countries >> any time soon! > > That reminds me of a question-- > > If, for example, Germany decides that my company is in >violation of their laws for mirroring the Zundelsite, will they send >us a letter saying that, so we know not to go to Germany? The Nebraska-based neo-Nazi publisher who was picked up in Denmark and extradited to Germany pretty much knew his actions were illegal in Germany, but I doubt (sheer speculation on my part) he had ever been formally notified that an arrest warrant had been issued by Germany and could be exercised in Denmark. The situation with Declan, Sameer, Duncan, and others, is even less clear. Things are moving much faster now that the Net is the means of distribution. I was of course half-joking about Declan visiting Europe, but surely France could decide to throw the book at him, and any EU country he entered (such as Ireland, judging from his name) could hold him at their entry point and ship him off to France to "set an example." I suspect the U.S. never officially notified that Monterrey, Mexico alleged drug dealer that he was wanted in the U.S., and as other kidnappings of foreigners have shown, the U.S. feels it unnecessary to formally announce to foreigners that they may be arrested in the U.S. (or kidnapped into the U.S.). Thus, I strongly suspect that France will not bother to notify Declan or Sameer or any of us that they face arrest in France (or affiliated EU countries). In Declan's case, I suspect France wants him for the Mitterand book and Germany wants him for the Zundelsite mirrors. The lesser European countries will of course follow their leads. Seriously, Declan, I admire what you've done, but I hope you don't plan to leave the U.S. for Europe anytime soon. --Tim Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Let a Thousand Zundsites Bloom
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm sure that Rich vs Declan is exciting but I have to agree with Declan that the more Zundsites the merrier. It rarely pays to be subtle with nation states. They don't have good information processing capabilities. It helps to really hit them over the head with things. It also means more to the public if you can say "Sure the Germans banned this site but we put up a dozen copies within a few hours." It is this casual ability to defeat nation states that is the significance of the net and should be emphasized. DCF "Few Generals have ever lost a battle because they brought too many troops."

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Re: Tim's paranoid rant about Declan appearing on "Europe's Most
by Declan B. McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded from another mailing list. (Charles is a journalist/author...) ---------- Forwarded message begins here ---------- Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:11:19 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Platt <cp(a)panix.com> Subject: Out of Control Rich Graves' suggestion that Declan is "out of control" is interesting. Perhaps Rich merely meant that Declan made a mistake but the subtext suggests that Declan should be in some sense marching in step, following a consensus, obeying a policy. I don't like the smell of this. In my experience, having read MUCH literature from revisionists and from organizations such as Wiesenthal and ADL, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to adopt an independent or middle path without raising the wrath of those on both sides of Jewish issues. I also suggest that public statements, especially from ADL/Wiesenthal, cannot be taken at face value. For instance: > * The ADL is tracking racist sites, but the goal is to expose them and > educate the public. Anyone who believes that this is the totality of ADL activities and intentions is simply unaware of the history of the ADL. I have personally witnessed an ADL representative trying to recruit hackers to paralyze a BBS where white-supremacist materials were stored. And this I think is just the tip of the iceberg.

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Re:
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMQ+jNCoZzwIn1bdtAQEgAwF+LRiwIlumqj6P2/pft8804Cbbttz3R7yL Pwd44+uUTk1SxJZePCt7O1jReYfDohTB =Ii6p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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