December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Portland, OR, Key-Signing+
by Bruce Baugh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ANNOUNCING: THE SECOND QUASI-MONTHLY PORTLAND CYPHERPUNKS SOIREE AND KEY-SIGNING Yes, it's that time again. When: Saturday, February 26, 1996 come 4:30-5 pm to join those of us watching the new episode of MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000, or come 7:30-8 pm to avoid it Where: my apartment, in SE Portland e-mail me for directions This meeting is about to be announced in a bunch of local and regional newsgroups; I hope to get a crop of novices as well as the more experienced folks. A keysigning will take place, with instructions for it mailed out later in the week. I have a PC running Windows 95, and it'll be available for use in key verification and the like. If anyone has a portable computer with another OS to bring, please do. Proposed topics: 1) Alan Olsen is working on an e-mail client with PGP integration. Let's talk interface. 2) I'm working on a guide for crypto newbies. Come and tell me what works or doesn't. 3) So, just how lame is the Communications Decency Act, anyway? :-) 4) Whatever of crypto relevance is on your mind. Since there was confusion last time about expectations, let me spell out of a few things up. 1) Since some participants have expressed the desire not to be photographed, no cameras. 2) Insofar as others have other concerns, e-mail me. No guarantees on what we can do or not, but I'd like as many people as possible to be as comfortable as possible. 3) What's discussed during the soiree _will_ be fair game for comment later. Interesting insights, dramatic news, stunning rhetoric, the whole deal, may all be continued on the net later. There are, alas, some restrictions on partying tools, imposed by my chronic immune problems. If you smoke, a) please hold off if possible or b) take it outside and away from my door. (I have a nice back patio suitable for this purpose, since I never use it for anything.) I will have quite a variety of drinks on hand, but please, leave the alcohol at home. Ditto for any scents or perfumes you might usually wear. This way I get to have fun, too. :-) I really hate to add this particular paragraph (and it isn't in the version that'll get posted to newsgroups), but...one person won't be welcome. Jim Bell's conduct at the last meeting and on the list are such as to make it quite clear that I don't want him in my home. I won't send him directions. I ask that nobody else do so. If he shows, he will not be allowed in. I have no interest in hosting a get-together dominated by the perpetuation of an increasingly dull flamewar. (And if he can stop grinding the usual axes in the next two weeks, I'd be delighted to drop this.) The time and energy I, and other participants, have are too valuable to waste that way. (And if he thinks I'm being unreasonable, he is of course free to organize his own gathering.) [Note: I will not pursue this matter further on Cypherpunks. I needed to announce it; I don't need to sustain the flame fest.] Regards, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEQAwUBMSAW8X3AXR8sjiylAQHECQfRAVlw1MzEpCceLzxM3LbwuLwmSpgacLFi 8eUNFGNHis1xwpOvYpY/u/6WQXScI00oq/44euY8N6bzUxV6djbhIPR1jX+J0KrQ 2Dl8gZgaRNdo69nBabIt3gBG4OZzWiqX2g7YLOcr4I7rcNvCPn0SbaIayb5trgjh AWSVnC1g8gy17XBpAZMrLurgQQx0ul5CS0RreO6/Tpqy3P2V2ly0+k3k9p29RJly Y/Ug7KSYxirXUt07eeI8HCXzEtJ8DvN133Nwbos7WZvXitR5fzf0eXbxGSe7WXay KB0olIiWEi/r0q7xP8GdE07WcBzbXCfH5Uf6VPr9F34rig8= =p6BW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Bruce Baugh bruce(a)aracnet.com http://www.aracnet.com/~bruce

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Give it a rest Perry
by jdoe-agamemnon＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cpunks, On Mon, 12 Feb 1996 Ray Arachelian wrote: >I personally like reviews of messages that are posted regarding other >people's posts, however I prefer to read them in email. Cypherpunks >isn't for "this doesn't belong here" messages. :) I personally agree with him.

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Cypherpunks vs. Coderpunks
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Much has been written by people about the "appropriate themes" of the Cypherpunks list. I'm sure I don't need to remind you all of this ongoing debate. Well, the "coders" have formed their own list, closed to non-coders, and known as "Coderpunks." More power to them. (Archives of this list may now be found at Todd Masco's site: http://www.hks.net/cpunks/index.html. Apparently the Cyphepunks list is thus being left to those of us who either don't want to code, or have no skills at coding, or who think the sociopolitical issues are more interesting. It may turn out that the "gated community" of Coderpunks is ultimately more influential, and that the "favela" of Cypherpunks is filled with the rants and raves about "Assasination Politics," who deserved to be nuked in WW II, whether Vince Foster was killed by the NSA or the Mossad, and so forth. Whatever, this ought to once and for all answer the question of whether only _coding_ topics alone belong on Cypherpunks: the answer is, clearly, that they _don't_. If you want to discuss coding, go over to Coderpunks and see if you have the magic password that gets you in. Otherwise, we have political rants over here to get back to. (ObPerry: "What does this have to do with crypto or coding?" ObAnswer: "Nothing, this is Cypherpunks, not Coderpunks.") --Tim May, an unelected spokesman of the Cypherpunk Ghetto (tm) Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Put the Protest where your money is.
by Ray Arachelian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Mark Allyn (206) 860-9454 wrote: > What do you mean by a speech bubble? > > "write in a speech bubble to the president dude" > > Does this mean a transparent plastic bubble over his head?? Like in comic books. i.e: __________________________________ /CDA is unconstitutional and sucks \ | Exon sucks rhino dick for lunch | ___ \ _________________________________/ / \ |/ |O O| \ ^ / -~- :-) ========================================================================== + ^ + | Ray Arachelian |Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness| _ |> \|/ |sunder(a)dorsai.org|is cleanliness and cleanliness is god-| \ | <--+-->| |liness and god is empty, just like me,| \| /|\ | Just Say |intoxicated with the maddness, I'm in| <|\ + v + | "No" to the NSA!|love with my sadness. (Pumpkins/Zero)| <| n ===================http://www.dorsai.org/~sunder/========================= [This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act] And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why don't you boys just come on in and do em right here in my house - I'll just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's getting old. I say we should do him." So the two daughters got him drunk and did him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got em pregnant....Onan really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while his brother got all the credit, so he whacked off first....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

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Re: V-chips, CC, and Motorcycle Helmets
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:36 AM 2/13/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: > >You mention the issue of Rushdie, as if it is some sort of refutation of my >idea. Quite the contrary; I think it actually supports me. > >How so?, you ask? Well, let's consider any potential assassin who might be >interested in this "contract." Aside from the obvious moral issues involved >here (Rushdie has, presumably, done nothing to warrant his death), the truth >is that such a potential assassin would see a number of problems that would >strongly dissuade him from attempting to kill Rushdie. > >1. There is no way he could be assured that he could collect the award >anonymously. His name would certainly "get out," and then he would be >subject not merely to "the law," but also anybody who wanted revenge for >Rushdie's death. > >2. There is no way he could be assured that he would actually receive the >award. (How would he prove HE did it?) > >3. That's because there is no way he would enforce this "contract" should >the offerer refuse to pay. These points would not affect a devout Iranian Muslem. To him the death warent has already been issued by legitimate authority. It is not even clear that money would be his princple motivator. I must respectifully disagree with Jim in this case. I believe that Rushdie has not been hit because the protection he enjoys is sufficent to repel the potential assassins. Note that he has an advantage over the US president (who probably has as many potential assassins) in that he does not need to make public appearences. Adding money to the pot will attract rational (and amoral) people who will then make a determination based on (1) profit, and (2) risk, which includes getting caught or killed. It seems to me that Secret Service levels of protection can protect a public figure against even Assassination Politics. Bill

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Re: Response to Perrygram
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:04 PM 2/14/96, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Perry and Tim, > >Why don't you two have sex already? The tension around here is getting >unbearable... And why don't you stop cluttering up the list with supposedly cute stuff like this? The couple of fairly short messages I've written in response to comments by Perry are *as nothing* compared to the tons of verbiage in the Jim Bell flame wars, the VZNUri/Detweiler flames, and even the Black Unicorn vs. Netscape battle. (If anyone can point to examples where I have engaged in protracted--more than a couple of short messages--flames, please send me pointers to these examples in private mail. I claim no especial morality, but I do think I've stayed out of ongoing flame wars. I haven't even commented on "assassination politics," even though it's just a watered-down and poorly-thought-out version of what I wrote about in 1988...easier to just delete the ramblings.) And yet people like Bob and Uni feel compelled to throw their two cents in about what a spectacle this is. Get real. --Tim May Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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An entity calling itself Kilroy was probably here (was: Web Page Authentication (was: Anti-Nazi Authentication) )
by Bryce 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This quotes some mail sent directly to me by (probably) an entity calling itself "Jiri Baum". I apologize in advance if said probable entity is offended at my broadcasting his words, but I thought it was a good contribution to cpunks. (Which, cosmos knows, could use some good contributions that aren't just rehashes of the eternal floating "libertarianism" Usenet flamewar/rantfest.) (Hereafter knowns as "the EFLUFR", pronounced "Effluffer".) +---+---- Bryce | | +---+------ Probably an entity calling itself Jiri | | | | v v v v > > > > An entity calling itself Jiri Baum > > > > <jirib(a)sweeney.cs.monash.edu.au> probably wrote: > > > ... > > > > > > Probably? Didn't I sign it? :-) > > > > > >Ah, grasshopper... If there was a good path between you and > >I in the Web of Trust, *then* I would take out the > >"probably". :-) > ... > > I guess it depends on whether we are talking about "Jiri Baum wrote" > (about which you'd be perfectly right) or "An entity calling itself > Jiri Baum wrote". Witness: > + there exists an entity which controls the PGP key in question > (*) > + that entity calls itself "Jiri Baum" (key signature) > + that entity wrote the text in question (text signature) > > Therefore, an entity calling itself Jiri Baum wrote the text in > question. No need for a web of trust - as they say on Star Trek, > simple logic will suffice :-) Well now let's say that an active attacker had supplanted your public key with his own. He is not, really, an entity who calls himself "Jiri". I mean, sure by using a public key which he controls and which has "Jiri" on it he is calling himself "Jiri", but he rarely if ever actually talks to people and says things which those people associate with the name "Jiri". More significantly, he never thinks of *himself* as "Jiri". So in this most fundamental sense he does not "call himself Jiri". *You* are the entity who calls yourself Jiri, and I can only say that you "probably" wrote the above because I'm not sure if you actually control the public key associated with your name. Tim May's solipsistic conflation of appearance and identity notwithstanding. I guess we are just using different semantics for "an entity calling itself". I didn't want to say "an entity whose One True Name is 'Jiri Baum'", because I don't believe in One True Names. I can see how my choice of words was confusing though, since Mitch (the Man In The CHannel) can be seen as "calling itself 'Jiri Baum'". Maybe I'll start saying "An entity who creates the output which we associate with the nym 'Jiri Baum'...", in order to point out that the actual "Jiri" makes this stuff up and Mitch just relays it with perhaps some editing. But then what if Mitch took a more active role, putting words in your mouth and so forth? Maybe I should say "An entity who calls itself 'Jiri Baum' and is more or less unaware of any nym collision regarding that nym...". Yeah, that one seems bulletproof... > True - I guess that's another use - a time-stamping service could > sign any page that asks for it. Time to whip up yet another CGI > script! (When/if I have the time - this one ain't so simple because > it has to get the page off the web.) Wei Dai <weidai(a)eskimo.com> and Matthew Richardson <matthew(a)itconsult.co.uk> have both done this. I suspect that Wei's time-stamping service is not still functional. (A pity. We need redundancy for added assurance.) I myself use Usenet and mailing lists as a sort of poor man's time-stamping service. If I invent an idea or some prose, and I sign it and then broadcast it thusly, I think enough people will keep a record of it having been in existence with my signature on it at this time, that I can later call on them to testify to that effect. Hopefully. Yet another reason to clearsign my output. Okay I will try to find responses to this even if they are buried in the EFLUFR. (All hail GREP!) Regards, Bryce "Toys, Tools and Technologies" the Niche New Signal Consulting -- C++, Java, HTML, Ecash Bryce PGP sig follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.01 iQCVAwUBMSDPpPWZSllhfG25AQFrUgP+IzidvICvkApSl87b03f4Ebatwcmg05cJ QF3jE7SbmRpcJshE6Cty5Lu3revBeGknRI3VDMoS4n0fCIxjq3D592d5mqOjwN0e QV620Aq2cnJZ3LRknZtaIGNluedkC4iG2xM3VzxIbVVGmmGEbhwEhKNmFEqWr2um SdDPSWvtnhs= =sc0s -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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TEN_ysp
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

2-13-96. NYT: "New Spynet Links C.I.A. and Envoys." The C.I.A. is planning to buy commercial comm gear, put an encrypting scrambler on it, and give diplomats in Bosnia and elsewhere the ability to receive adulterated facts that it previously had been unwilling or unable to share except with enemies. Soon, diplomats will be up to speed with spying foreign correspondents, many of whom have portable comm gear combining sat phones and computer ports. "We have our own classified Internet in the intelligence community, with home pages just like you do on the Internet," gurgled a spy-leaker to this reporter-siphon -- who already knew by spying browsers and snooping search engines what the dagger-gagger duhhed. TEN_ysp

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Re: Spin Control Alert (LI Newsday, 2/12/96)
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"declan+(a)CMU.EDU" "Declan B. McCullagh" 13-FEB-1996 00:19:48.79 >Exactly. Catharine MacKinnon, for instance, has called the EFF and other >Rimm-debunkers part of the "pro-pornography power block" which >represents the "howling fury of the pornographers protecting their >penises and their wallets." So Catharine MacKinnon wants to castrate and steal from men? No surprise... Excellent quote to repeat, BTW... it might even get the male followers of the Christian Coalition et al to question with whom they're working. >ObCrypto: Yes, Know Your Enemies and work with the natural enemies of >the religious right, such as groups like the ACLU and the FEN. The >theocratic push to outlaw nonescrowed crypto is next. As I said before about the CPSR and libertarians (and Rush Limbaugh and libertarians), politics makes strange bedfellows. -Allen

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Australian net limitations
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This may have some relevance to the Australian crypto regulation thread a while back. -Allen From: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" 12-FEB-1996 23:51:48.10 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help(a)weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:28:44 -0800 From: madanmohan rao <rao(a)IGC.APC.ORG> To: "Multiple recipients of list india-gii(a)cpsr.org" <errors(a)snyside.sunnyside.com> Subject: Internet news about Asia, India Hello folks - Here are excerpts from this week's edition of my column, "International Internet NewsClips." The full version plus archives are at MecklerMedia's Internet World site (http://www.iworld.com/netday/NATW.html) You can also find my reviews of books on Internet-related subjects at this site. Comments, feedback, etc. most welcome as always. - madan ______________________________________________________________ Madanmohan Rao (rao(a)igc.org) Communications Consultant, United Nations Inter Press Service bureau. -------------------------------------------------------------- [...] Internet Legislation To Be Formulated In Australia -------------------------------------------------- 1996 is probably going to be a watershed year in Australian Internet history. Decisions are going to be made about what is and is not allowable on-line. Concerned users will have a chance to express their opinions to the Australian Broadcasting Association's On-line Services Investigation, by February 16. The ABA's is the second similar investigation in the last six months. A Senate report last November argued that it should be an offence to "transmit, obtain possession of, demonstrate, advertise or request the transmission of material equivalent to RC (refused classification), R or X categories." But this would mean that the on-line world would be restricted by tighter standards than the off-line world. The ABA has issued a comprehensive Issues Paper for its inquiry (http://www.dca.gov. au/aba/olsissue.htm). Available since December, the paper deals with the concepts of codes of practice, the development of a representative industry body, the establishment of an independent complaints-handling body and other mechanisms for controlling access in the on-line environment. It also looks at consumer and Australian content issues on the Net, provides a handy guideline to censorship classification, and a summary of the findings of the Office of Film and Literature Classification's own informal search of the Net - 27 hours of porn hunting yielded the discovery that "restricted and refused classification material was difficult to find, at times difficult to download, and was more prevalent on Usenet newsgroup files than on the World Wide Web." The ABA accepts submissions by e-mail (online(a)aba.gov.au) (Sydney Morning Herald; February 6, 1996) Nations See Internet As Cultural, Political, Economic Threat ------------------------------------------------------------ Nations are discovering that data sent via the Internet can be every bit as threatening to a country's laws or its culture as the armies of yesteryear. "Nation states are trying to assert themselves with increasing aggression into cyberspace," said Electronic Frontier Foundation's John Perry Barlow, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. It's not just cultural or social sovereignty that governments worry about. The power to tax is also being eroded by the increase in economic transactions that take place over the Internet, some of it encrypted so that prying eyes of the tax department could not read them. "You can't control it, it's uncontrollable," said MIT's Nicholas Negroponte. "If someone tells you that you can, they are probably smoking pot." (Toronto Globe and Mail; February 3, 1996)

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