December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

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by jkeep＠bigfoot.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
by Fred C. Moulton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To quote the The Encyclopedia of Philosophy (EOP): 'No definition of "atheism" can hope to be in accord with all uses of this term." The EOP article continues with a discussion of various definitions and reasons for them. The article includes the following comment: 'On our definition, an "atheist" is a person who rejects belief in God, regardles of whether or not his reason for the rejection is the claim that "God exists" is a fales proposition.' George H. Smith in his book Atheism: The Case Against God writes: 'Atheism, in its basic form, is not a belief: it is the absence of belief. An atheist is not primarily a person who believes that a god does not exist; rather, he does not believe in the existence of a god.' Within the past year I attended a lecture by Mr. Smith and during the lecture he indicated that his formulation was being preferred by scholars in the field while the one given by Jim Choate was still used in the popular culture. Thus I think it is inappropriate to criticize the definition of atheism used by pjm(a)spe.com. Fred At 05:02 PM 9/20/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> From: pjm(a)spe.com >> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:13:38 +0200 >> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd) >> No, they are not. The distinction is crucial to the main point I >> evidently failed to make in my previous message: Atheism is not a set >> of beliefs that constitutes a personal philosophy. There are Buddhist >> atheists, Universalist-Unitarian atheists, objectivist atheists, >> Wiccan atheists, etc. Atheism isn't even a belief, it is merely the >> statement of a lack of one particular belief. > >No, atheism is the statement that "God could exist, but doesn't". Whether >one chooses to hang 'Bhuddism' or 'Wiccan' on is irrelevant. We aren't >discussion labels but rather characteristics. Fundamentaly *ALL* atheism >states: > >While it could happen that way, I don't believe it does. > >Which is identical in meaning to: > >While it could happen that way, I believe it doesn't. >

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This is a listed crime?
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

# Bin Laden has suffered other setbacks recently. On Wednesday night, the # FBI arrested Wadih el Hage, an Arlington, Texas man who law enforcement # officials charge worked with bin Laden and Al-Din in Sudan, and with # Fazil in Kenya from 1994 to 1997. He has been charged with lying to the # FBI about his relationship with other bin Laden operatives, including a # senior bin Laden lieutenant who drowned in a 1996 ferryboat accident in # Tanzania. Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual charge something else? ---guy

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Dilbert on Wearable Computing
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Today's Dilbert is at http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/ and if you access it after today, it'll be at http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert98091213518… Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

... some of the internal key-IDs have been modified. however, both versions should have been posted in various 'true' messages. No information if some of the false messages were ever encrypted with the key twiddles in hidden 32 bits, but probably not. ...

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This is a listed crime? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Information Security <guy(a)panix.com> > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:18:43 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: This is a listed crime? > Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual > charge something else? Deliberately providing police incorrect information during an official investigation is a crime. A person can answer the question truthfuly or else they can refuse, lying is not an option. There is also the potential for being charged as an accomplice. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:34:19 -0700 > From: "Fred C. Moulton" <moulton(a)moulton.com> > Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd) > Within the past year I attended a lecture by Mr. Smith and during the > lecture he indicated that his formulation was being preferred by > scholars in the field while the one given by Jim Choate was still > used in the popular culture. > > Thus I think it is inappropriate to criticize the definition of > atheism used by pjm(a)spe.com. Well Fred you and pjm can believe what you wish, I fully support it. However, yourself, pjm, & Mr. Smith are claiming that a belief that something doesn't exist isn't a belief is simply a tricky play on semantics. A belief in a negative is still a belief irrespective of how many people believe it. Might doesn't make right (or logical). As I've demonstrated before (and for the last time): ^(A) = (^A) Argue all you want, Yet it moves. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Faith, logic, language, & history...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Some have posited that the traditional way of looking at religion, logic, and culture is false and that in fact a new methodology of examination has been found. What is happening is that some faction has decided to abandon 5000+ years of human social and religous culture in favor of a new set of definitions. These definitions use the traditional terminology in a new manner and in addition invoke an alternate understanding of basic logic (ie 1st Order Predicate Calculus). To date no proof or demonstration, only an oft repeated claim, has been forthcoming to demonstrate the short-fall in the traditional approach. While the issues based on faith are clearly outside the purvue of rational proof the invocation of alternate logics to back them up is not. It falls on the current cadre of supporters to demonstrate two things: 1. The shortfall in comprehension or understanding that occurs with the traditional approach 2. How the new system addresses these shortcoming succsfully. In short, if these folks really want us to believe their assertion: ^(A) <> (^A) Then they need to demonstrate why De Morgans Law and other derivations of this logical axiom are incorrect and how this alternate inversion identity corrects these failures. *IF* this can be accomplished then the remainder of their argument has some basis in consideration. The catch they don't seem to have seen is that when one inokes an empirical philosophy in the support of a faith based philosophy it is done at the behest and within the guidelines of the empirical philosophy. To do otherwise is to change the rules in the middle of the game. How many people believe it is irrelevant, how many books are written is irrelevant. All that matters is demonstrating the proof within the boundary conditions. It is not an issue of personality or popularity. Myself, I don't believe they can do it. Computers work, crypto works, man got to the moon, medicine works, airplanes fly, etc., etc., etc. As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. It's time these folks got their butts in the kitchen. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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[short] Updated quote from Allan Rock
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is the complete quote from Alan Rock, then justice minister who pushed the gun control, registration and confiscation bill (C-68). "I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers." -- Allan Rock, Canada's Minister of Justice, quoted in _Maclean's_ "Taking Aim on Guns", April 25, 1994, page 12. "... protection of life is NOT a legitimate use for a firearm in this country sir! Not! That is expressly ruled out!". Justice Minister Allan Rock "Canadian justice issues, a town hall meeting" Producer - Joanne Levy, Shaw cable, Calgary (403) 250-2885 Taped at the Triwood community centre in Calgary Dec.1994 Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C

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'I F**K LUCY' ON THE WEB/NET SEX HITS THE STOCK MARKET
by STUFFED NEWS DAILY 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IN TODAY'S ISSUE: 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS! 5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES NOOKIE IN THE NEST ROAD ROMPS CAPITAL HILL HORNINESS AUCTION SITE RESTRICTED TO ADULTS SWISS SEX SEEKER ARRESTED I F**K LUCY NET SEX AND STOCKS THE BEST OF EUREKA! MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/9/21/ <---- Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/9/21/ <----

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