December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Burnes wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > Churches, like governments, corporations, or any other organized > > entity, have some wonderful people in them, doing wonderful things. > > The problem, as always, is what our founding fathers realized--these > > types of organizations/structures tend to grow and attain power which > > is then used for the purpose of self-sustained growth (survival). > > Humanity tends to evolve, while organized humanity tends to de-volve. > > Biped humans, walking upright, form organizations which move toward > > becoming quadrapeds dragging large clubs. > Ha! This is pretty interesting. Rather than the typical cypherpunk > approach of eliminating such inefficient and corrupting methods as > income taxation and tax exemption we are playing by their game. Taxation and exemptions are, conceptually, no different than a tribal agreement that those who bring home the deer will share with those who guard the campsite, and that the shaman who keeps the evil spirits at bay has to do neither. When one strips the semantics from various cypherpunks posts, there is usually an underlying agreement that there should be no 'free rides' and no 'oppressive burdens.' <-- generality> > The whole of HG Wells warning to society was that by systematically > altering the language, you alter the things that can be discussed. I believe that half of the disagreements on the cypherpunks list, and the vast majority of disagreements in the world in general, are the result of disputes over semantics, rather than beliefs. > rather than bitch and moan about how the Churches are exempt, why > not rejoice in the fact that at least the churches are free from > taxation. We are part of the way there. Revolutionary idea! Instead of calling for Churches to be subject to the same oppressive taxation as the rest of us, call for the rest of us to be given the same exemptions as Churches. I vote Jim Burnes the honorary title of 'CypherPunks Chief Taxation Spokesperson' (Norman Vincent Peale Chapter). > Or start your own church. ;-) I agree. TruthPastor "CypherPunks Church of One" (All donations declared by myself to be tax deductible--check with the authorities in *your* jail cell (*after* sending me money) as to their views in this regard.)

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Government goons force Goddard to recant
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Time to add a new horseman: "conspiracy theory-spreading libertarians" ... CNN logo [ISMAP]-Navigation Infoseek/Big Yellow Pathfinder/Warner Bros Barnes and Noble Main banner Weird guy. Cool phone. Click here. rule TWA missile theory co-author apologizes Salinger Says report was 'reckless' From Correspondent Christine Negroni November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT) NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." In a written statement to CNN, Goddard apologized to "all those in the Navy I have wrongfully accused" and to "those who believed in my efforts and who are now upset with me for my change of mind." Goddard co-authored the report with former ABC news reporter Pierre Salinger and a third man, Mike Sommers. Ian Goddard's statement to CNN: "While many witness accounts remain a mystery to me, I believe that my effort to pin the crash of TWA 800 on the Navy was reckless and a mistake. I apologize to all those in the Navy I have wrongfully accused. I also apologize to those who believed in my efforts and who are now upset with me for my change of mind. "We all need to put our support behind the families of the victims of TWA 800. Many who died left children behind who now need your support... Please give." National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz, on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had to spend time responding to what were basically groundless accusations. Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an explanation to the American public. The so-called Salinger report laid out an elaborate conspiracy theory that alleged a huge government cover-up following the TWA crash. Goddard had kept the theory alive on a Web site he created, which now appears to have been discontinued. "I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my larger agenda."  Ian Goddard Goddard has recently E-mailed associates about his report. In those messages, Goddard called his support of the conspiracy theory "a big mistake," and said he only pursued the charges because he "wanted to give the government a black eye by any means that looked opportune." Goddard says he wanted to promote libertarian ideology by encouraging distrust of the government. CNN's Christine Negroni reports on the admission: icon 2 min. 30 sec. VXtreme video When contacted by CNN about Goddard's statement, Salinger said that he is moving on from his investigation into the TWA crash, although he did not retract any of his charges that a Navy missile brought down the 747. Salinger called FBI Deputy Director James Kallstrom last week and told him that he was giving up his probe. In his statement to CNN, Goddard asked that the public support the families of the victims of TWA 800 and that donations be made to the Flight 800 Family Relief Fund. TWA Flight 800 crashed off Long Island, killing all 230 people on board. The FBI and NTSB have not yet named an official cause of the accident. ______________________________________________________________ © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 11/03/97 ## Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy ] >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:26:03 -0700 >To: "John Kelsey" <kelsey(a)plnet.net>, > "cypherpunks" <cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM> >From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy >Such insurance is now common. A boat owner doesn't buy >insurance for iceberg collisions if he is never in arctic >waters, a small plane pilot doesn't buy cargo insurance if >he doesn't ferry cargo, and so on. Yes, I understand this. Nobody with a grain of sense insures himself for things he knows will never happen. >>the point of having insurance, which is to protect yourself >>from low probability high cost things happening. That is, >I have a different view of what insurance is than John does. >What insurance is, and how it is priced, is too long a topic >to get into here. Suffice it to say that the insurance >company makes its profits by charging more for coverage than >it pays out. And the customer, of course, tends to lose the >differential. An insurance broker and a bookie are in the same business. A bookie takes a bet from me, at 1000 to 1 odds, for some unlikely to occur event--which he thinks has a probability of less than 1/1000. An insurance broker does the same thing. The only important difference is my purpose in placing the bet. When I take out medical insurance, I am placing a bet that I will get sick enough to spend more than my deductable on doctors. The insurance broker estimates (based on whatever information is available) the probability that this will happen, and makes me a bet at odds that are in his favor, if his estimate is true. If I get sick, I get some money (or my doctors do). If I stay well, I lose the bet. This is just paying someone to take some risk off my hands. >Each side tries to get as much information as possible. If >Joe Client knows he never pilots a cargo plane, he doesn't >opt for cargo insurance. If Joe Client knows he never >engages in unprotected sex with diseasy prostitutes, etc., >he skips HIV insurance. The fact that some "low probability >events," like meteor strikes, are uncovered is part of the >price of keeping Joe's premiums tolerable. >>before I've taken the test for genetic disease X, my best >>estimate of the probability that I will test positive is >>very low. Once I have taken it, I know the result. If I >>sign up for a-la-carte insurance for this disease, the >>insurance company effectively knows I must have tested >>positive for a predisposition to it, and so either won't >>give me insurance, or will give me insurance only at an >>extremely high rate (corresponding to a 1/10 chance of >>getting the disease, rather than a 1/1,000,000 chance). >This is the idea. It causes those with the predilections to >the disease to pay the high coverage costs. Right. I don't think I expressed my point too clearly, because you seem to have responded to something different than what I was saying. Suppose there is some genetic disease that kills its victims on their 31st birthday, unless they get a $1,000,000 treatment first. Before I have taken the test for this disease, I have to accept a certain risk--if I find out I have the disease, I have to raise a million dollars in the next few months. After I have taken the test and gotten back the results, there's no more risk involved (assuming the test is perfect)--I either have the disease or I don't. After the test, insurance isn't useful (unless I defraud my insurer). Before the test, though, insurance might be useful--I could essentially place a bet with someone that I had the disease--I pay $1, and get a million dollars back if my test comes back positive--just enough to pay for my treatment. >The alternative is not pretty: banning private testing >(how?) and forcing insurance companies to cover all >applicants for all conditions at a fixed rate. I know. Let me make it clear that I am not at all interested in banning private testing, coercing insurance companies or anyone else into agreements they don't want to make, etc. I am saying it would be nice if I could buy insurance against the results of the tests before I took them. The problem is, I can't see a really workable way to do this, because there's no way to keep people from taking the test beforehand. >--Tim May --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdikHx57Ag8goBAQE6/AP/Yub9LA0b1rvivDeiHW9tHtV7b/n4jmUA aP50hPFTCn7EEMsoKdC2pUv0eq5F+s8AmKyaE+SmxTgBbalrvm+T+lPib4bbEXjH iI9nHbnfzTSxiVbkVHp0p0/0urIgokTcrFBWbfIEnmOnGvI7OHI+KcPjqr3JBQeo A53+dL0NBRQ= =kx2R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks, Perry's Crypto List ## Date: 11/03/97 ## Subject: Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol ] >Subject: Re: Copyright commerce and the street musician protocol >From: Marc Horowitz <marc(a)cygnus.com> >Date: 03 Nov 1997 16:03:34 -0500 >Someone recently told me that game manufacturers have >stopped worrying about piracy. Why? Because most new games >come on CD-ROM, and copying a CD-ROM is an expensive, >time-consuming operation. Bulk duplication of CD's is >substantially cheaper than one-off duplication, and since >games are cheap, people will usually buy them rather than >copy them. This is a nice situation for CD-ROM-based video games. However, it's probably a temporary situation. Currently, downloading a novel, even over modem lines, isn't all that time-consuming. If available bandwidth and storage capacity keeps getting cheaper, the same will soon be true for digital audio, and later, for digital video. The number of bits required to hold a twenty-minute piece of music at CD quality isn't going to increase over time. >While the cost of one-off CD duplication will certainly >drop, I see no reason that media will not change form in the >future. As long as it's cheaper or more convenient to buy >digital media from the publisher than to copy it yourself, >the piracy problem basically doesn't exist. Separate the medium from the information. For computer programs, it's possible to just keep bloating the data to keep piracy from paying. (To some extent, anyway.) For novels, music, and video, that's not going to work. The unit of music I'm interested in listening to will probably not change much. >This is exactly >what makes copyright work for books: I can duplicate a book, >but it will cost more than buying it legitimately. (There >is still the problem of systematic large-scale piracy, but >this is relatively easy to notice and prosecute under >existing law.) But once someone has scanned in the text from the book, it costs approximately nothing to make another copy. This works as well for digitized music, video, and images. Once the data is available somewhere in digital form, it's almost free to copy. In a world with jurisdiction-shopping, eternity servers, high-quality anonymous e-mail, anonymous payment mechanisms, and cheap, high-bandwidth connections, that digital data has to get onto the net *once*, and it is free forever to anyon who will take the trouble to find it. For books, one reason this doesn't happen more often now is that the display technology for most computers is not nearly as easy to read as even cheaply-printed paperbacks. This is sure to change with time. Widespread use of DVDs will get rid of the advantages of CDs and cassettes for listening to music. >Short works (newspapers, magazines, journals, etc.) will >need a different mechanism, such as advertising, but that >infrastructure is creating itself today. It's essentially the same problem for text works. A text work you can't fit on one CD with compression is unlikely to be something you can get many people to read all the way through. (The exception is reference material, where you want *everything* of interest to be there, even though you will surely read only a tiny fraction of the material.) The real distinction here is timeliness. If some information is only valuable when it's timely, then it's probably going to make sense to get the information from its source, even if it costs money or you have to look at some ads. If the information is valuable weeks later, then it may be hard to charge much money for access to it. > Marc --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdkUHx57Ag8goBAQH0TwP/ZKJMdO1klPSI0W/UWxzX3B+2sWGp2lUT JAkSrHC6ha3JAq+NECF2Cwmf8wuu+mmdyy6laFTljGJ9uuxnfrZZ4QfJAR0S0KbM 8swifaqDkryQtu3dpJOzDV8Kc7B7QYiF3HyiW0NYDHI+VwO9hgFAq/+XkQA5Yhb8 erGdU+e5cwQ= =uFfo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 11/05/97 ## Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy ] >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:05:16 -0700 >From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Protocols for Insurance to Maintain Privacy >What an insurance card is really a *line of credit*. Or a >*proof of payment*. The admitting hospital knows they'll at >least be reimbursed for the initial visit and emergency >treatment. >Perhaps there's a business idea for some enterprising >Cypherpunk. A prepaid hospital card, good for a few days' >worth of treatment (e.g., $5000), but only at the better >rates. This could even be done with Chaumian >privacy-protecting methods. There's an idea. This seems straightforward enough in principle. It's just like a prepaid credit card, or even a normal credit card, right? I mean, what it says on the card is probably different, but the financial arrangements are pretty-much the same. I suspect it would be easier to implement this (at least in the US) as an extra function on a credit card, rather than as a new kind of insurance, since there are so many odd insurance regulations out there. Currently, lots of credit cards offer special benefits like automatic insurance on rental cars--this seems like a close variation on the same idea. >--Tim May -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNGDdm0Hx57Ag8goBAQF32wQAt995HVMQafsP+vDB3YdixDghNvS0LABE Qy1a1Cy+Gzzlsox4c6NnoOXB2ETWANtTknw3gn/KiNVFxSmSDqihvhmeAiZ8BQ2N pKIY9me/NPHKTSsPzYAA4gi3jrAFF58qIky9BATcneJLos1qpw3P8TlTZF+MmXU/ 0TZl6llN+4U= =SDLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --John Kelsey, Counterpane Systems, kelsey(a)counterpane.com PGP 2.6 fingerprint = 4FE2 F421 100F BB0A 03D1 FE06 A435 7E36

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SSL Browser info
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, You may be interested to know that I've set up a web page at http://www.hotlava.com/demos/ssl-query.html which displays the SSL version and cipher types of your browser. Gary -- pub 1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22 Gary Howland <gary(a)hotlava.com> Key fingerprint = 0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D 1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06

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Crypto in Videoconferencing?
by Jim Burnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

anyone: is anyone aware of a videoconferencing system that supports strong crypto -- or any type of crypto for that matter? jim burnes ----- Jim Burnes Security Software Engineer, SSDS Inc. Denver, CO Remove the n-o-s-p-a-m. from my email to respond -----

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church of crypto anarchy (Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:25:02 GMT > From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > Subject: church of crypto anarchy (Re: Taxing Churches for their views? Bad idea. (fwd)) > Seems to me that the distinction that churches are exempt from taxes > partly hinges on their non-profit, or not-for-profit status. No, it stems from the fundamental democratic axiom of seperation of church and state. If the churches pay taxes they aren't seperate. If the state supports churches they aren't seperate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Home Buisness Opportunity
by billy＠bingo.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subj: Are you getting loads of $5 orders in your mailbox everyday? I am!! Date: 97-10-19 21:33:41 EDT From: 80285881(a)prodigy.com To: You(a)aol.com I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This: I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail & I'm Going to Europe on the Proceeds! Hello! My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and part-time accountant. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time. About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! I was not prepared for the results. Everyday for the last six weeks, my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box! I am stunned by all the money that keeps rolling in! My husband and I have been saving for several years to make a substantial downpayment on a house. Now, not only are we purchasing a house with 40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy to celebrate! I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as we did. You don't need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you! The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is the lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this multi-level marketing program works perfectly..100% EVERY TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc. This is your chance, don't pass it up! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what you will do to reach financial freedom: You will send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, you will increase your business building your downline and selling the products (reports). Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below. * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Usually within 10 days you will receive, via e-mail, the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand! c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT (checks not accepted) - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address. It is suggested that you rent a mailbox addressed to an assumed "company" name to avoid your name and home address being sent to millions of people. For an example, see the "company" names listed below. __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: MF Group, Inc. 3550 Centerville HWY Suite 107-145 Lithonia, Ga 30058 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: The SRF Enterprises 4117 Jami Lane Lithonia, Ga 30058 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: FML P.O. Box 927603 San Diego, Ca 92192-0603 __________________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Marico 2350 Spring Road #30-194 Smyrna, GA 30080 __________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000 THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE! *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! *******T E S T I M O N I A L S******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!! For 52,000,000 E-mail addressess visit our website at: http://www.edgetone.com/industry2/resellers/resell553.html

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Forwarded mail...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 07:47 MET > From: Jenaer Mixmaster Anonserver <mixmaster(a)as-node.jena.thur.de> > Subject: Libertaria in Cyberspace > For a truly free communications medium we must have strong cryptography. Seems to me that this is false. To have a truly free communcations medium we must have no censors. The very fact that crypto is involved guarantees that it isn't free. The use of crypto itself is a form of censorship if you don't have the key. > This is a given. No, it isn't. > Anonymity cannot be insured without strong cryptography Tell that to publius. 200+ years later and we still fight over who wrote what and they didn't even use a simple substitution cypher. The secret to anonymity is the same as keeping a secret, those who know keep their mouths shut. > and the freedom of remailers or similar mechanisms to operate > unobstructed. How is crypto going to keep them from kicking the turning the phones off, turning the power off, and kicking the front door in? It isn't. > Speech is never truly free unless it can be anonymous if > the author so chooses. Speech can't be truly free as long as any party can censor the traffic. > Who wants to espouse an opinion which will get > them flogged, either figuratively or literally, by their neighbors, their > government, or in some cases even their family? Then be so kind as to explain people who are intentionaly trying to force legal cases in order to challenge standards? This is a clear 1-to-1 mapping to flogging (per your example). > In my opinion, Mr. May is correct when he says that physical space is too > small and too exposed to outside intervention. Unfortunately cyberspace can't exist without meatspace. > Yes, cyberspace does look much more promising. Only if you don't have a clue as to the technical, social and economic milieu that it exists within. Show me a way to run a remailer program without a computer which exists in meatspace and your proposition might work. > The amount of "space" in > cyberspace is unbelievably large. You have a small imagination. The amount of space in cyberspace in no more than the sum total of all the hard drives in use on the network or network accessible at any given time. It's measured in terabytes but that is hardly unbelievable. > The amount of data I can store on one > gigabyte of hard drive is incredible by conventional standards. Your standards are pretty low when one considers that the largest databases on the planet are measured in terabytes (1,000 gig's). > And space is very cheap > in cyberspace. Really? Then please be so kind as to pay my monthy bills related to Internet access. I assure you they are far from 'cheap'. > A truly free communications medium must allow its users to be anonymous. No, it must provide no moderation on traffic. All anonymous access buys one is reasonable deniability, a far cry from free communcations; and in fact fundamentaly unrelated to the concept of free speech. > That an opinion is unpopular does not make that opinion wrong or invalid. Doesn't make it correct either, the proof is in the pudding. > That an author does not want his "true name" attached to an opinion does > not diminish the value of that opinion. In fact the validity of a thesis should in no way ever rest on the personality or reputation capital, it should rest solely on what can be proven and tested about it. [other stuff deleted] > Tim May is correct: Libertaria will thrive in cyberspace. Only in your collective wet dreams. Libertaria as described by Tim, yourself, and others will never come to pass in that form. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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