December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: War & InfoWar
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Blanc wrote: > TruthMonger wrote: > > Of course, you have your own definintion of innocenent bystanders, > >while others may have different definitions. > .......................................................... > To me, an innocent bystander would be someone who was walking by a building > which was blown up by someone with a grudge against its occupants. > > You lose the point of your attack when you kill those who do not relate to > the reason for your attack. Not necessarily. Free thinkers are perfectly capable of judging the reasons behind those involved on both sides of a conflict, and making an individual judgement as to the culpability of both parties. When a citizen shoots an intruder who is breaking into their house and threatening their saftey, there will always be family members, lawyers and anti-gun proponents who will decry the individual's use of force to defend their home and person/family. There are others, whoever, who will recognize that the perpetrator is the one who is ultimately responsible for placing the homeowner in the position of having a need to defend themself. Personally, if I need to worry about my life because my government's actions makes them an actionable target of an increasing number of the citizens, then I am going to take action to change the government. I do not deny anyone's right to suffer silently, but neither do I deny an individual's right to strike out at the source of their oppression. If you have developed a method for waging war without ordinary citizens coming into the line of fire, then I would like to hear about it. I don't like conflict any more than the next person, but I do not see concession to the oppressor as a viable option just because conflict will cause loss and heartache. Take a look at the results of the appeasement policy that Britain had in regard to Hitler. It resulted in scores of deaths that could have been prevented had those proposing it taken a firm stand that supported freedom from tyranny. The fact is that Tim McVeigh is facing criminal charges for his chosen actions, while the murderers at Waco are not. Until the average citizens demand the same justice for government agents as is demanded of anti-government agents, the average John or Jane Doe can expect to get caught in the crossfire. TruthMonger

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Vlad-smear blows himself...
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > kC on TCM: > > > >"May they all be vaporized." > > > >"Every day that passes, I'm more convinced that McVeigh did the right thing. > >Some innocents died, but, hey, war is hell. Broken eggs and all that." > yeah, I've noticed that TCM is really uptight lately and has been way off > the scale (more so than usual) on the "panty-knot" scale. what gives, > Tim? I think the situation is mostly he's so upset that congress is > discussing bills with the words "crypto" in them, which is apparently > enough to make him cringe with terror. > > when the CDA was being passed, I think his hemor^h^h^h rhetoric > swelled up then too as well. but look at what happened with the > CDA-- it got challenged, killed by lower courts, > and is stuck in the supreme court, likely > to be struck down there too. far from the end of the world forecast > by some here. Get real. The Feds have attacks going on a dozen fronts on anything they support or oppose and they don't particularly care if a bill is constitutional or not, as long as it achieves the desired effect. They are happy as long as they can terrorize enough citizens and businesses with threats of imprisonment to move things in their desired direction. > do we have a constitution or not? if so, we have nothing to worry > about. What a crock of shit! This is just another variation of "It's not perfect, but it's the best sytem we've got." Why is it always the oppressors who seem so enamored of the way the system works? > TCM is terrified by virtually anything that happens in govt, which is > amusing and comical at times. If I thought Vlad-smear was not a paid government schill, then I would assume he is a fucking idiot. I love to see how quickly "patriots" stop waving the red, white and blue once the government's stick gets shoved up their own butt. Believe it or not, Vlad-smear, there are individuals who fight against loss of freedom and liberty even when it is someone else who is getting screwed. TruthMonger

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Re: War & InfoWar
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

TruthMonger wrote: > The fact is that Tim McVeigh is facing criminal charges for his >chosen actions, while the murderers at Waco are not. > Until the average citizens demand the same justice for government >agents as is demanded of anti-government agents, the average John >or Jane Doe can expect to get caught in the crossfire. ........................................................ Well, you're an average citizen. Have you demanded the same justice for govmt agents, and was your demand honored? Gee, too bad. Tough luck. .. Blanc .. Blanc

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Certified primes
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Given Timothy May's propensity to molest little children, is it any surprise that the state of California wants to have him castrated? /\ o-/\ Timothy May ///\|/\\\ / /|\ \

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Money orders, debit cards, ...
by daw＠cs.berkeley.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some court transcripts from the McVeigh case contain interesting information about real-life anonymous systems. See http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/okc.trial/transcripts/may/050697.eve.html Did you know that money orders are not so anonymous as you might think? On the order itself are digits identifying the post office where the order was purchased, as well as the date of purchase. Also, a private company testified on their money order service, and it comes out that they keep a computerized record of every money order purchase in a central database. Eek. And read about a real-life instance of traffic analysis of phone calls based on timing correlations. This one really happened, folks (though it was by mistake). Also, read about how a company offering prepaid debit cards searched through billions of records to find all phone calls to or from a certain number, etc. Read about how they entered a disk containing information on 100,000--200,000 phone calls (!) into evidence. (Note: contents of calls are protected by law, but traffic analysis specifically is allowed, far as I can tell.) And you value your privacy? Too bad!

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Re: The War is Underway
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >However, while we may think their power is gone, or is almost gone, they >think otherwise. And we're seeing an accelerating pace of lawmaking, as >laws are being generated by the 50 states, the various municipalities, and, >of course, the Feds. Even the lawmakers can't explain what their laws will >mean, or who will be prosecuted, or how many new prisons will have to be >built to handle the new felons. .......................................................... It's a terrible thing, a terrible course of events. But consider that they are but the tip of the iceberg; what fuels them is all those supportive constituents in their voting districts. What do you recommend be done to *them*? .. Blanc .. Blanc

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Re: Wine Politics Again!
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >Give me a break. The "he must be drunk" argument is the cheapest shot, no >pun intended, in the book. > >(And, please, knock of the use of "Timothy" is a post where one disagrees. >If "Tim" is fine for most responses, why the sudden formal "Timothy"? >Another rhetorical device.) ......................................................... I was being facetious, Timmy. .. Blanc (I'd say more, but right now I have to go watch "The 5th Element".) .. Blanc

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Re: Wine Politics Again!
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From frissell(a)panix.com: >At 12:35 AM 5/10/97 -0700, Blanc wrote: >>Timothy must be drunk; I can't believe he said this. Because he wouldn't >>spend so much time writing sensible things of Truth & Light, if he thought >>the better thing to do for achieving libertarian values was to kill so >>indiscriminately with a bomb. After all, he subscribes to utmost >>discrimination. So I think right now he's less in the engagement of >>Reason and more under the influence of maybe some Bud Light. > >He didn't say it was a better thing to do. He said he was coming to understand McVeigh's actions. ................................................................. He didn't explicity say it was the better thing to do. But when there is a decision to be made about a course of action to take, and there are choices available and you select one over another, you have evidenced which one you think is the better. >Tim is helping (in his way) to convince others of the facts of the matter. Dramatic statements carry the message better. Lately Tim has been making extremely dramatic death statements: "Kill them all...they are unworthy of life.", "... I pray for the deaths of these criminals.", "Washington is a cancer than can only be cured with a few megatons of nuclear disinfectant.", "May they all be vaporized.", etc. These are definitely dark in mood and understandable; I also have violently negative & despairing emotions about these people. I just wouldn't ever think of involving those who are innocent bystanders and happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is the same kind of flaw which collectivists make when they set up groups, governments, any kind of organization: they take a broad sweep of the population, without being particular about any exceptions to their rules or their plans. It has always been the defining element in what is different about the U.S. from other countries, that individuals receive more attention and recognition as single entities, with their own defining characteristics, than anywhere else in the world. We are more free to descriminate, to think of people as responsible for their own actions and as deserving of just consequences for them. It muddies this concept, to lump a large aggregate of people into one and treat them all as being the same entity; it takes the mind from being able to think in terms of specifics, into thinking instead in broad considerations which overlook the particulars. Technology delivers to the single person the possibility of efficacy on their level, as compared to having to wait for some overseeing body of authorities to deliver solutions from their stock of tools & means. Technology also makes it possible to be even more precise about cause & effect - so that the tools one uses can be of benefit only to the user without affecting anyone else who is not interested in participating, or in being affected by, what anyone else may be doing. I know that critical times call for critical action, but I just don't expect from anarchist libertarian cypherpunks that they would "throw caution to the wind" (so to speak) and forget how to think about events and actions in terms of specifics and utter precision. .. Blanc .. Blanc

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Re: War & InfoWar
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: > At 09:15 PM 5/10/97 CST, TruthMonger wrote: > > The government has prosecuted dozens of individuals for planning > >to bomb the OK city Federal Building (including executed murderers). > >It has long been listed as a target of choice for anti-government > >paramilitarists. > > Can somebody confirm this? Cite? Below, from the cypherpunks archives: ------------------- As MediaFilter reported: The March edition of Taking Aim, the newsletter of the Militia of Montana, issued a call to arms for April 19, the day of the Oklahoma blast: Federal prosecutors in (Richard Snell's) the '88 trial claimed that the '83 plot_which included counterfeiting, armed robberies and plans to assassinate federal judges and the Arkansas FBI chief_was to begin with the detonation of a truck bomb at the Oklahoma City Federal Building. All of the defendants were acquitted. But that very same building would be blown up by a truck bomb on the very day of Richard Snell's execution. Snell died knowing of the explosion. His last words were a warning to Arkansas Governor Guy Tucker: "Look over your shoulder, justice is on the way..." TruthBomber ----------------------- Planning the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building has long been as standard an exercise for paramilitarists as typing "The quick brown fox..." has been for typists. The trial mentioned above is not the only one in which the targeting of the OKC Federal Building was involved as a goal of paramilitary objectives. To think that federal security personnel in Oklahoma City were unaware of this is ludicrous. The fact that they allowed a daycare to be placed there (or perhaps initiated the action) is as criminal an act as the bombing itself. Naturally, there will be no trial or investigation of government criminality in this regard, but only of the actions of anti-government criminals. Freedom and liberty in the world is not in the hands of the citizens, but in the hands of those who are concerned about it. (The same as high-fashion or many other mental constructs.) There may not be an overt war taking place between the average citizen and the government, but there is one taking place between the government and those who oppose the draconian limitations being placed on their freedom and liberty under the guise of "rule of law." Dr. Roberts ~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: The War is Underway (fwd)
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 10 May 1997, Adam Back wrote: > > Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > > However, while we may think their power is gone, or is almost gone, they > > think otherwise. And we're seeing an accelerating pace of lawmaking, [...] [The fork in the road is discussed] > > Who will actually win? > > > > I think we will. They think they will. The war is underway. > > So what are we doing to fight our side? (Apart from fantasizing > about nuking the bastards till they glow :-) > > So what can cypherpunks do? > > Write code? Yes. One of the major stumbling blocks I have run into is a lack of code which really is refined and reviewed enough to serve the purposes I need it to serve. FC97 did a lot to make some more obscure things obvious, and familiarize the players with each other, but the details are often hard to come by. Many of the applications out there are painfully behind in interface areas forcing developers to use complicated "toolkits" which often lack the basics we need. Finding an analogy to easily explain even the basics to a customer is very difficult unless the front end jibes with the attempt. The amount of confusion over what represents a good algorithm is also interesting. Take CAST, which seems a promising cipher and which we considered using over IDEA. On asking 4 "experts" about CAST, I got 4 answers. 1> A 64 bit cipher with 40 bits secret. 2> A 64 bit cipher - not expected to be very complete. 3> A 128 bit cipher. 4> "Not worth discussing." In fact, as I understand it, CAST is of variable key length (Up to 128 bits), and quite resistant to many attacks which plague DES and even IDEA. But digging out that information was painfully difficult. (It may not even be correct). > Perhaps it's time for some stego interfaces to remailers. > > Usually around this time Black Unicorn gives us his wish list of > crypto anarchy apps. I'm not sure we've progressed much towards his > wish list since the last time he posted it. Most of what concerns me is the need to keep keylengths "obscenely large" because what is obscene today may not be so obscene after 5 years of chilled crypto development. Given the success (or lack thereof) of my call to arms before, I'm not sure I'll be anxious to repeat it soon. (The largest keylength of any widely used cipher of which I am aware remains at 128. There still is no effective PipeNet, no real mainstream "stealth crypto." No significant work on detering traffic analysis or denial of service with the exception of the below). > I thought the Eternity Service I announced a week or so ago was a step > towards reducing the possibility for government censorship of web pages. > (http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/) Not much interest to date. > Ideas stand on their merit, but the success of crypto anarchy services > also depends on ease of use, funding, volunteer effort, publicity, and > evangelizing. I haven't done much of the latter yet lacking an > example server to bootstrap the system, I hope to have this up in a > few weeks. Hearty kudos. An online bank is useless if it can be blocked by a few keystrokes. (But that's what secure INMARSAT phones are for too) Still, these are areas that I wish c'punks would start looking at again. Even if strong unforfeited crypto is legal in the U.S., it will not be in other countries for quite some time. There is strength in numbers, not just safety. The more crypto users there are, the less government, or anyone else, can do about it. C'punks should wish to provide clandestine crypto services for the entire population. Laws which may or may not pass in the United States should bore c'punks, because they should realize that legislation is irrelevent because the genie is already out of the bottle. Unfortunately, I don't think the genie is all the way out of the bottle. NOTE: I'm not on cypherpunks anymore, mail me directly for replies. -- Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures Finger for Public Key Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern Vote Monarchist Switzerland Rebel Directive #7:Avoid soccer games when a government assault threatens.

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