December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Remailers and ecash
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Given: We want more (reliable) remailers But someone has to pay for them Conjecture: New remailers can be financed by charging the users a fee per message to use the remailers. If a remailer charges a fee, the number of users will be reduced to those who are willing to pay the fee. When the number of users is reduced, the potential for traffic analysis is increased, which reduces the value of the remailer. If the value of the remailer is reduced, it will not be worth the cost to many users, and those users will seek a less expensive, higher traffic remailer. Thus, the commercial remailer is forced to lower its prices until it is unprofitable. Conclusion: Pay-per-message commecial remailers are not economically viable. Hence we need a new economic model to finance remailers. Several have been proposed: - Advertiser supported - Pay a flat fee per month for remailer access - Everyone a remailer. Remailers only accept messages from other remailers. To use remailers you must run a remailer. - Get companies to run remailers on their firewalls to reduce traffic analysis by competitors/spies - Pay for access to an anonymous message pool - Sell a spam filtering service to fund remailers - Sell a spamming service to fund remailers - Sell cpu cycles in exchange for remailer access - Charge people for extra services, such as low-latency - Pay for a nym account, nymserver subsidizes remailers - Have the money launderers subsidize the remailers - Somehow get all those Mac users to pay - Offer $50 to the first person to set up a remailer, as Monty Cantsin did - Fund social programs for universal remailer access and universal health care like Cynthia wants

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Re: Remailers and ecash (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Remailers and ecash (fwd) > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 97 23:56:19 -0400 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > >And why does this by any security when it's the header info and > >contents that Mallet looks at, not the frequency. The only thing > >such approaches do is impliment security by obscurity, and that > >ain't security. > > What header info?, its all messages to the remailer with nondescript > info .. from that point the latency and mix takes over. The meaningful > message looks no different from the 'cover' traffic. Mallet will be following the cover traffic, since it is cover there will be no correllation uncovered between input and output traffic because the output traffic header info will either be a small class of destinations used over and over or else it will be chosen randomly using something like a spider on webpages or a usenet newsgroup crawler. Just send the bogus packets to random addresses, talk about spam with a bite... <hint: the LEA's would then instigate an investigation of the randomly selected target, depleting their resources, this might buy you 2-3 days if you got two halves of a clue to rub together> <speculation: anything short of several thousand entries in the bogus destinations will be trivial to track> <obvious: once a bogus address is used and known by the LEA's it will be worthless to send any further packets there> <obvious: all this traffic analysis will be done by computers with very nice databases so it might take one or two agents to review the full traffic set for just about any time frame under review> <speculation: given a determined and well equiped Mallet it should take no more than a week to 10 days to resolve the analysis if the destination party is a small set, say <= dozen, using todays remailers and traffic levels. Previously it was mentioned that one remailer handled about 4300 pieces a day, something Oracle or Sybase wouldn't have a problem with> <speculation: currently remailers are not seriously bothered by the BIG Big Brother's because it is not worth validating the paranoids out there that they are being watched> For the sender to chain from remailer to remailer to destination the destination has to be in the header info somewhere. Now in the most secure system each packet header will only contain the address of the next hop. When the next site gets it the packet contents are de-crypted (otherwise reading the chaining info is trivial) and the contents are uncovered to reveal another packet with the next hop header and another encrypted block. And on and on we go. <Question: Are there any remailer sets that impliment the encrypted nested packet system?> <speculation: an encrypted chain could be made stronger if the next hop header depended on which key was used to decode it. In other words, remailer A's key will produce one next hop address while remailer B's key will send it elsewhere. This is a subset of the different plaintext - same cyphertext problem - a hard problem as I understand it. Find two distinct texts that encrypt with different keys to the same cyphertext> Now if I were tasked with traffic analysis of this sort I would look at each incoming header and each outgoing header. I would look for some sort of correlation (ie some percentage of the time when I see this source address I see this destination address within some period) over time between the steps in the chain. Realisticaly it would take at least a dozen or so transmissions using the same remailer chain before a clear pattern would emerge. In general there are two types of classes in traffic analysis. The first is monitoring of a specific entity involved in the transfer, usualy source or destination. The second is passive traffic monitoring where I simply go from remailer to remailer and find statistical correlation between the various packets in the hope that somewhere somewhen I would come across something of use. <observation: without latency being added simply shuffling the messages will not significantly hamper the analysis. To be most effective the latencies should be randomly chosen. This implies that for best security the content of the traffic should not be greatly time sensitive. It furher implies that such traffic should be over a significant range, at least an order of magnitude say> <suggestion: I learned of the basics of traffic analysis from following the study of dinosaur teeth and trying to determine which type they were. Different dinosaurs leave distinctive but different types of scratches on their teeth. By applying statistics to the measurements it becomes possible to assign them to specific types> The first type is the most commen currently but with the various requests by the FBI and other LEA's it is becoming clear they want to get into the second class of traffic analysis in a big way. Guess they are finding it harder and harder to get the big-wigs like the drug cartels because they use a higher degree of technology than the LEA's do, they're simply out-classed. With the second class they could catch a email (for example) from some end user buying a couple of quarters of pot and then chase that chain in reverse. Without the passive second class monitoring they would have never gotten that lead in the first place. Now consider the LEA's think nothing of monitoring a suspect for years if required. I know of one case where the DEA spent 2 years tracking a 'kingpin' for 45 tons of herb. They even brought in specialist from the NSA and military to do covert monitoring for the over-seas participants, including traffic analysis of their communications. <observation: Blackhawks have a pretty nifty electronics system, watching downtown Bagdad via a sat link while flying along playing with Internet email and using your FLIR to not hit the cables between the poles> If they ain't LEA's then a whole new set of options become available. Also consider, if they aren't LEA's then they are probably doing a class one traffic analysis which is only a matter of time to resolve. Considering the current number of anonymous remailers it would not surprise me if the CIA/NSA/Massad/MI5/etc. are not currently monitoring them all. It is a given that countries like Iraq, Singapore, China, etc. are currently doing about all they can to monitor the remailers because they are known to be used by 'terrorist' organizations. It seems to me that many people have an inherent (and unrecognized) assumption that Mallet will have access only to a single remailer and won't bother actualy tracing the traffic. A bad assumption. It is also worth remembering, the government as a whole is quite slow but there are some quite capable individuals. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Remailers and ecash (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 06:35:55 +0200 (MET DST) > Subject: Re: Remailers and ecash (fwd) > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > The question is will people pay money for this. Nobody gives a damn if you > think it's useful or not. Shure they do because one of the things I would love to do is run a commercial anon remailer. If I as a businessman motivated to get into it can't justify it how in the world can somebody with less technical experience justify it? How would you justify it to your bank for a $10k loan? I suspect that if I can find a way to overcome my anal retentive penny pinching then it will sell others as well. > The customer is always right, and all that. You obviously have never done business with me. I've turned more than one customer away because they were either stupid or wanted something that was completely out of line. I provide my customers a specific set of services at specific fees with specific results, period. If they don't like the way their baby looks that is their problem, I just deliver 'em. I do this out of love, not a need to feed. <trivia: Bill G. once said that the computer industry was the only industry that ate its children> > Obviously, some people had a reason to take the time to write those thousands > of posts, the question is will they pay the remailers to post them. Depends on their motivation...a question we all seem to be grappling with. If it's possible I am shure that one of the thousands of posts that we generate on this issue will be the trigger. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Forwarded mail... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Forwarded mail... > Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 00:09:24 -0400 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > ... nothing personal, but why is it people keep deluding themselves > with the idea that they can shoot to wound. You cannot know what a > shot will do Remember: A gun is like a finger, just point it at what you want to hit. I have met hundreds of great shots in my life, there are many people for whom this sort of behaviour would not be delusional. My grandfather (who you'll hear more about in a minute) used to delight us as small kids by lighting matches stuck in wood fence posts with a .22 pistol from about 50 yds. My cousin from Louisiana likes to shoot squirrels (if you can call it that) by passing the bullet just in front of their nose, causes lung hemorraghes and they just fall off the limb. Me, I always miss or blow their teeny little head off, it's apparently a game of 1/4 inches. I work with an ex-gomer (ie USMC) pilot who is quite phenomenal with his .357 Desert Eagle, his groupings are just about an inch at 25 yds. I have 20/10 eyesight (in one eye now, the L. is blind) and I've been shooting guns since I was 6 years old. By the time I was 12 I was killing Nutria in Louisiana's swamps every summer for bounty with a single shot of .22 from 100+ yds. I once got a nice heart shot on a deer at 400 yds. over iron sites with a .308. I hit what I aim at with a pistol or rifle assuming I have fired it a few times (which if I own the gun is a given). The first thing I do is range a weapon when I buy it. It's also why I practice shooting in groups of 3. Better chance of hitting, and hitting something important. Being shot at doesn't bother me, been there done that several times now, so I don't think that will be much of a factor. I agree a snap shot is inaccurate but if I have time to get the gun and get to my bedroom door nobody is going to get a chance for a snap shot. Hell, if I had a reasonable idea where they were I'd shoot their wormy ass through the wall. I seriously doubt anyone can get to my bedroom without me being warned (my burglar alarm isn't electronic). <hint: if your walls are white and you're faced with a burglar cover yourself with a white sheet (assuming the lights are off and only ambient is available) and stay below waist level moving no more than about 1 ft. at a time and shooting upward. Keep both elbows tucked in and hold the gun in a 2-hand grip, use you ears not your eyes> >... if you shoot someone the odds are pretty high that > you will kill him or seriously injure. If you break into my house at 1AM this is a given. I'll either shoot you or beat you to death with a skillet. If you don't want to die don't break into my house. It's the Golden Rule. There is absolute NOTHING that justifies breaking into my house at any time let alone in the middle of the night. It's called 'cause and effect' unfortunately most folks now a-days just don't seem to have caught the clue. There is a saying that my grandfather tought me (he was a medic in WWI because he was a contientous (sp?) objecter): If you pull a gun on somebody shoot, and shoot to kill. If you can't bring yourself to kill then don't use a gun. > You cannot count on > 'non-lethally' wounding anyone. Who the hell wants to non-lethaly wound a burglar, I'm betting on them flinching when I start yelling at them... > Leg shots have a very high incidence > of hitting bone and deflecting up into the torso and really raising > havoc. A shot to the thigh could easily hit the femoral artery and a > total bleedout Absolutely great reasons to shoot the asshole there. Look, when a person breaks into your house, robs you, rapes you, or whatever they are basicly saying "I am going it on my own, I apply no rules or recognition of civilization. Your life means nothing to me because I am willing to trade it for a few measly bucks". It is silly to try to deal with such people reasonably, if they were reasonable they wouldn't be there in the first place (they'd be home protecting their own possessions). They are a clear and present danger with long-term intent. Save your life and their next victim or your tax dollars to put them in jail and train them to be better criminals, do everyone a favor kill them now. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Request for illegal electronic surveillance examples and cases
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan wrote: >So I'm putting together a special report featuring examples of illegal >wiretapping by governments -- to show why we shouldn't trust them with >mandatory domestic key escrow. Also illegal electronic surveillance, >generally speaking. Especially more recent ones. Maybe non-U.S. examples >too. There are a number of US cases in the just published "Secrets: The CIA's War at Home," by Angus Mackenzie. What is worth exploring to supplement the perhaps too facile gov-bash is the burgeoning private industry of illegal electronic surveillance, staffed with mostly ex-gov folks (and those not deft enough to get a global Cold War sinecure) who are not always as scrupulous as the government. These operations are growing worldwide as governments down-size, up-size and sneaky-rig their NatSec and LE programs, often most slyly by privatizing them behind false fronts. Indeed, the bigger story may be the ways illegal electronic snooping is being hidden behind "legal" operations by both government and industry, often working in concert to camouflage the bastardly deeds by pointing fingers at each other to justify higher budgets and higher fees and more restrictions on free expression. Get Stewart Baker looped and talkative. Then John Deutch, William Perry, and on and on. The media and DC public interest groups are not outside this long-running covert loop of mutual back-scratchers. Read "Secrets." Trace for example where the heads and legal counsels of military, spy and law enforcement agencies go in private industry, and the affiliations they form in commerce and non-profit orgs, beginning with SAIC, say, and the Council on Foreign Relations, the lobby-law firms and schools, but do not stop with the obvious, easy to find. Get Stewart Baker looped and talkative. Then John Deutch, William Perry, ex-legislators, and on and on. Be prepared to have your not-so-secure comm systems hacked by the New Terrorists as dirty secrets are threatened. Read "Secrets:" some of the characters in the crypto debate are mentioned in earlier disguises and, in a few case, where they show now.

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Stop Dreaming & Start Making Money!
by 72384400＠13117.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or crypto"
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Alex Le Heux wrote: >>>You people just don't get it do you? A gun has one purpose: To >>>kill. Just like any other tool, a gun, if it is available _will_ be >>>used at some point. >> >>Although guns are obviously designed for killing things, this does >>not mean that they will be used. This can be seen from the >>statistics. There are far fewer murders than there are guns. >>Almost all of them are never used for killing someone. > >You can't deny that the more guns there are available, the more >people will get shot. Oh yes, I can. In fact, I believe the opposite is the case. The statistics bear this out. But, your claim was that a weapon will eventually be used to kill somebody. I guess it's clear at this point that this was wildly inaccurate. >There may be some people that are capable of owning a gun and using >it wisely (ie. not), but I don't believe that this is a significant >fraction of any population. You should come to the United States and spend some time around the shooting community. The people are real pleasant, real easy to get along with, and real careful with their weapons. >>You are also not considering the case where one person has a gun and >>another does not. The situation is more stable if both people are >>armed. (And don't claim you are talking about disarming a whole >>society. You aren't, just part of it.) > >Urgl? The situation only becomes more explosive if both sides are >armed. That can occur, but in general nobody likes to be shot. Even if you are going to shoot your opponent regardless, if he has a gun you move more cautiously. >Look at the arms race, which is now, thank god, over. I am amazed at >the amount of restraint both sides displayed during that time, >although it's been really close a few times. What would have happened if the Russians didn't develop nuclear weapons? I think they would have been nuked sooner or later, don't you? And, we aren't talking about an arms race, here. We are talking about whether citizens are allowed to own a few rifles. >It's really simple: If there are no guns, no one will get shot. You will find this difficult to achieve, however. >I _am_ talking about disarming a population. I don't know which 'it' >I'm not part of, but I am definately not part of the 'it' that >promotes death by gunshot. You are not talking about disarming the police and the military are you? Just as I thought: you only want to disarm the civilians. That's not such a great idea, judging by history. >>>So making sure there are lots of guns around only serves to make a >>>lot of people very dead. This is a Bad Thing. >> >>Depends who they are. Bet the Dutch resistance made good use of >>their weaponry, eh? > >Even if they did, dead people are still a Bad Thing. We had no >quarrel with the soldiers the resistance killed. Neither did most of >them had any quarrel with us. Just like the US troopers in Vietnam or >some other place. Are you arguing that the Dutch resistance should not have resisted? I believe they did the right thing, myself. I do not believe it was a Bad Thing. I believe it was a Good Thing. I believe they did not kill enough people. >>Be aware that the gun control lobby has often used misleading >>statistics. For instance, you will hear a lot about "handgun >>deaths". It turns out that most of these are suicides. While >>undesirable, most people perceive a difference between somebody >>killing themselves and a nutcase doing his thing at a school. > >I am not the gun control lobby,... No, but it appeared that you may have been misled by them. >I am a citizen in a mostly gun-free society, and glad of it. People >getting shot here, be it robbery, suicide, police violence or self >defence is a rare occurence. Police violence is caused by gun ownership? I doubt this very much. >Over her, drive-by shootings are something from fairy tales. Oddly enough, this is mostly true here as well. It is unclear what is magical about the words "drive by shooting." I believe this phrase lacks real content and is simply a trigger for hysteria. The implication is that people are randomly firing on people in the streets. While this may occur once in a great while, it is extremely uncommon. Usually people kill for a reason. Usually they are trying to kill their enemies. In the U.S., this is often related to the black market. Whether somebody kills their enemy from a car or not is irrelevant. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNDP3UZaWtjSmRH/5AQEHIQf/RaA4NODawPxLEEI5mMGPnMG/+7ASceoL p6i2oM8c0w2Qu7yx7FfK5uC0wtRpyQFZXFaPpZ7AoMUYumAXCnnVLdksKaxMdsCP 0Dv0I1Bg5lh+Ko5XEyCHBl472MQH5P7rg6sWil3+X6D4KPEh6IhfQ/WAdczAOhGG h1pDDTHOiRYO52x4Lb5vyH58OtyzxAqoBUH2YD6ReVcdYbgUXcXD54UGTbzsPbzw 5Rlx/M5gCMXOpKoISZnsCPhZyPrw8a/kG3VPdbmJC4XbE4evohCeA+CDZzy2HTDb x3S2iUnmPEw6Cg4KhXeKfyznIXNgLWLDUu5tOpc9qtuCNrWeBc1DzA== =/9qs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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InfoWar 27 / TEXT
by The Same Guy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The True Story of the InterNet Part III InfoWar Final Frontier of the Digital Revolution Behind the ElectroMagnetic Curtain by TruthMonger <tm(a)dev.null> Copyright 1997 Pearl Publishing ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- InfoWar Table of Contents * Anarchist Post of the Century Alex Le Clue ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anarchist Post of the Century ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Mr. Policeman is Your Friend From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net >Electronic Frontier Canada's David Jones (djones(a)insight.dcss.McMaster.CA) >posted the following to the EFC mailing list: >2. If cops can read E-mail, so can the bad guys > http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/gazette.24sep97.html Let's not forget that cops are often the bad guys. And I don't mean this in a macho, off-the-pigs way. I mean that throughout history the "cops" are those who have enforced the laws and whims of tyrants, who have arrested and tortured and executed dissidents and nonconformists of all flavors, and who were the "King's men" in the times of the Founders. Even in more recent decades in the U.S., don't forget it was "cops" who harassed civil rights workers, who broke up perfectly legal strikes, who arrested and imprisoned Eugene Debs for speaking out against the draft in particular and a foolish war, WW 1, in general, and so on. One need only look to J. Edgar Hoover and his police state measures. (In fact, the very term "police state" tells us all we need to know about whether or not "Mr. Policeman is Your Friend" is always, or even most of the time, true.) And with full awareness that I am invoking Godwin's Law, the "cops" in Europe in the 1933-45 period were the enforcers of Hitler's policies. Here's a list of some folks throughout history and in various regimes who would likely have reason not to want to escrow their keys with the local police: Jews, Catholics, Protestants, atheists, heretics, schismatics, heathens, poets, authors, Scharansky, Solzhenitsyn, refuseniks, Chinese dissidents, students in front of tanks, Branch Davidians, Scientologists, Jesus, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, African National Congress, UNITA, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, colonial rebels, patriots, Tories, Basque separatists, Algerian separatists, secessionists, abolitionists, John Brown, draft opponents, communists, capitalists, imperialist lackeys, anarchists, Charlie Chaplin, Galileo, Joan of Arc,, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, civil rights workers, Margaret Sanger, birth control activists, abortionists, anti-abortionists, Michael Miliken, Robert Vesco, Marc Rich, Nixon's Enemies, Hoover's enemies, Clinton's enemies, Republicans, Democrats, anarchists, labor organizers, pornographers, readers of "Playboy," viewers of images of women whose faces are uncovered, Amateur Action, Jock Sturges, violators of the CDA, alt.fan.karla-homulka readers, Internet Casino customers, Scientologists, Rosicrucians, royalists, Jacobeans, Hemlock Society activists, Jimmy Hoffa, John L. Lewis, Cesar Chavez, opponents of United Fruit, land reformers, Simon Bolivar, Robin Hood, Dennis Banks, American Indian Movement, Jack Anderson, Daniel Ellesberg, peace activists, Father Berrigan, Mormons, Joseph Smith, missionaries, Greenpeace, Animal Liberation Front, gypsies, diplomats, UN ambassadors, Randy Weaver, David Koresh, Ayatollah Khomeini, John Gotti, Papists, Ulstermen, IRA, Shining Path, militia members, tax protesters, Hindus, Sikhs, Lech Walesa, Polish labor movement, freedom fighters, revolutionaries, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine, and "suspects" --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Le Clue ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Axle Le Clue shook his head in disbelief, as he read the CypherPunks list post that had been sent by his clueless Doppelganger, Alex Le Heux. Subject: Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or crypto" From: alexlh(a)xs4all.nl (Alex Le Heux) To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Bullshit. People in the US rarely use their weapons against oppressive governments or political turbulence. Most guns that are used against another person there are used to commit crime or to defend against those armed criminals. Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> wrote: >Let's also take a look at the Dutch performance during their >occupation. While there certainly were many courageous Dutch people >who helped refugees (at great personal risk, to say the least), and >there were many courageous Dutch people who were in the resistance, >there were also many Dutch people who did not perform so well. Not >only were a large number of Jewish people turned in by Dutch >informers, but there were even Dutch SS units. You have a nerve. You, coming from a country where people are still regularly killed in the name of racism, tell me this?! Alex -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNDNpTNuYAh4dUSo/EQK3bwCeKJv4AW0kOwjSRitLi7HDa7KEaW8AoN4F OwK1wOG19pazc93T1twP1Evp =FsmU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Axle Le Clue had been following this thread, in which a large number of CypherPunks had contributed their perspective, to little effect, for the most part. Alex Le H[clu]e[less]ux, despite a variety of sensible, well-reasoned posts by a number of different American CypherPunks, seemed to remain, in his own mind, a world-class expert on a country in which he did not reside. What was especially sad, was that the poor, dumb fucker wasn't even a spook. Axle Le Clue decided that, since the rather civil posts by the other list members were not helping his clueless twin from across the sea to come half-way to his senses, that he would step into his VerityMonger suit and bring the boy up to speed on what an ignorant asshole he was making of himself. It was the least he could do for an evil twin Subject: When you realize that you're too stupid to live, you can borrow my gun. From: Axellc(a)xsDRUGS4all.hi (Axle Le Clue) To: cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Alex, Did you know that all Europeans are exactly 5' 7" tall, have light brown hair and limp slightly when they walk? I know this because I watch TV and that makes me a goddamn fucking expert on you low-life foreigners who aren't like us, over here. If you disagree with my view of your region of the world, then why don't you get your head out of your fucking ass so that you have an outside chance of expressing an opinion or viewpoint that you didn't suck out of the cocks of the mass media when it comes to our region of the world. I saw a news story on TV the other day about two senior citizens who drew down on a would-be robber in a restaurant, or some such, using their illegal guns, which they carried for their own protection. Yep, I saw it in the news once. Today some kid slashed his mater's throat, and then went to school and whacked out a couple of his classmates with a rifle. I have seen this every half-fucking-hour since it happened, and will no doubt be shown all of the messy details another few hundred times before the mass media who seem to be in charge of spoon-feeding people like yourself their world-view is done creating your reality for you. You want nerve, pal? I've got the fucking nerve to suggest that you petition your fucking government to take in a few million US government created nigger crack-heads, so that your country can teach our citizens how to treat them with love and respect. To tell the truth, I'd rather you took the white-bread junkies, because my nigger drug addict acquaintances have treated me much better than my honkey junkie pals. Correct me if I'm wrong (but I never am), but it seems to me that Europe is not even interested in saving our Black-African Americans from the horrible abuse they suffer as a result of our country's racism. Come and get 'emsee if they'll go. The US has racial problems because we have different races. We also have a whole shitload of racial harmony. All over the world, there are a variety of countries engaged in mass murder and genocide, at any given point in time. You try coming to the US and slaughtering even a few thousand of any particular race, religion, or ethnic group, and you won't even be able to take a wild guess at the number of people of various races, religions and ethnic groups that will be on your ass like shit on stink. You hypocritical piece of shit--having the fucking audacity to conceitedly brag about how the people of Europe have "put the crap of WWII behind us" and suggest that it is something that we "haven't managed to do." Want the cold, hard facts of life, Bubba? You didn't put WWII 'behind' you. We did! Gun-loving Americans conquered your continent and gave you your countries back instead of enslaving you, like every other winner in history has done. Some of us discriminate against Jews. Do you know why? Because we HAVE some! We were giving them refuge while Europe was massacring them by the millions. Now you have the balls to say we're not all treating them right all of the time. Buy a fucking clue! NEWS FLASH!!! Fascism hadn't died, it has just gone underground and crept into every facet of life through the corporate and government power mongers. The government and the mass media are working the citizens like dumb fish on a hook, who are still trying to swallow the worm. There is a New World Order on the way, and it isn't going to be any prettier than the last time it was tried. You can dismiss as paranoid ranters and ravers, those who decry the increasing loss of our freedom and privacy, but you would be better served to listen and learn from them, rather than criticize their determination to defend their liberty, to the death, if necessary. Why? Because these are the same people who defended Europe's liberty, to the death. The danger is not the freedom lovers who are armed and declaring the line they will not let others step over, in compromising their rights and freedoms. The danger is the sheeple who believe the government and their media shills when they say that the Thought Police only want Austria. The Privacy Police only want the Jews. The danger is the sheeple who buy the government lie that they need to deny us our rights and freedoms to solve the problems that they, themselves, have created. If you can't see this clearly, then there is nothing that I or any of the other CypherPunks can say to change your perception of the source of creeping fascism that is leading to yet another attempt to create a New World Order. I love the American people. I despise the secret American government. I feel the same about many other countries I have lived in or visited. I do not want to see your children, or mine, fighting in the future over what color to paint their prison cells, instead of fighting to escape, and be free. When the cattle cars stop at the end of the line, the people you find there are not nearly as civil and reasonable as the ones who checked your identity cards at the beginning of the trip, to make sure that you were properly processed according to your rights under the law. I think you are an idiot to believe that the threat of weapons in the hands of the citizens is a greater threat than weapons only in the hands of the rich and powerful. However, if Europe is conquered by the forces of evil, once again, I am sure that myself and many other Americans will do what we can to come pull your ass out of the fire. It may take a little longer, this time, though, since we may have to kick our own fascist government's ass before we come kick the shit out of your dictators. No need to thank usit's just the way Americans are. VerityMonger "If you want to conquer the world, you're going to have to come through me." ("Do you feel lucky, Hitler? Welldo you?) Copyright "Anonymous TruthMonger <theSameGuy(a)theSamePlace.Old>" "You can't get there from here." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" "WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs" "InfoWar (Part III of 'The True Story of the InterNet') Soviet Union Sickle of Eunuchs Secret WebSite ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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counter-intuitive -- spam is good for you. anonymous assholes are your friend
by Zooko Journeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just got through reading another hilarious post from Anonymous, and I realized that instead of filtering anonymous posts _out_ of my reading list like I used to, I've gradually started filtering them _in_. I was thinking about why, and it illustrates a counter- intuitive hypothesis that's been germinating in my head for a few days/months/years. I'll call it "Zooko's Law of Evolutionary, Counter-Intuitive, Painful Serendipity": In an evolving ecosystem, things which appear to do harm often result in benefit. For example, if you consider having lots of healthy, happy bunnies to be a benefit, you might consider an influx of voracious wolves to be bad news. But in many cases the selective pressure exerted by the wolf population will result in stronger bunny genes, healthier bunnies, more bunny babies and cetera. In the case that the wolves leave again, or some other aspect of the environment changes (winter comes, etc.) then the population of passive grass-nibbling bunnies will turn out to be disappointingly fragile compared to the population of well-exercised wolf-fleeing bunnies. Now you might complain that I am not playing fair by tossing in these hypothetical environment changes late in the game. If we are evaluating _just_ the influx of wolves, and not some possible developments such as the wolves passing on, winter coming and so forth, then "obviously" the bunnies were better off without wolves. But perhaps that's just the point. In an evolving ecosystem, you _can't_ measure success without considering the likelihood of continual change. You might also object that I am sneaking in some unfounded Platonic concept of "bunny goodness" which only holds in certain contexts. I.e. maybe the environment will change in a way that penalizes bunnies with sinewy muscles and fast hearts and rewards big fat stupid bunnies who only think of the next nibble. Okay. Maybe I am. But my intuition tells me that this isn't some human-prejudice Platonic Ideal slipping in, but that in fact competition _does_ usually make the competitors better suited for all sorts of likely environmental changes. Now why do the cpunks care? Because I think the invasion of flaming, spamming Vulisses and "Graham-John Buellers" was good for the cpunks list. It drives away people with too little intelligence, stomache-strength, technical know-how or egostic attitude manage their own list input without depending on group dynamics to manage it for them. Okay, so like all "natural" selections, it takes out a few of the good guys too. I still miss Perry Metzger's involvement, but if we had to lose Perry in order to lose a few dozen clueless loudmouths, then so be it. Anyway, I consider it a Bad Thing that anonymous remailers are so difficult to learn and use. I would approve if point-n- click remailers and remailer clients were widely distributed. But in another application of Zooko's Law of Evolutionary Serendipity, the fact that remailers are hard to use means that the people who use them are smarter than average. So maybe _that's_ why I've found it rewarding to select _for_ anonymous posts instead of against in recent times. And why I toy with the notion of fomenting the kind of infowar "war games" that Phill Hallam-Baker hates. Damn, I wish Daniel Dennett were reading this list. Regards, Zooko Journeyman P.S. Just to tie up one loose end-- you might notice that I counted the flame-invasion as a goodness because it drove off "clueless loudmouths". But what's the difference between a "Graham-John Buellers" and a normal crypto-groupie? Is this a double-standard? Not at all. The clueless loudmouths that I am glad to be rid of are an insidious sort, like William H. Geiger III, Paul Bradley, and rest-his-soul Jim Bell who are on-topic and sane enough to attract attention from the real thinkers, but who are prolific and mediocre enough to pull down the over-all quality of discourse. Apologies to the named people for hurting your feelings. It's nothing personal, but I have to call 'em like I see 'em. Cut down the volume of your output to just the very best of your articles, and maybe I'll stop filtering you out.

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Re: Stronghold
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM writes: > > Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> writes: > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM writes: > > Those who are newcomers to the list should know that Vulis has never > > presented any evidence substantiating his vague claims that Stronghold > > is insecure or has backdoors (or whatever the claims were). Vulis is > > conducting a personal vendetta against one of C2Net's staff members and > > anyone who happened to be or become associated with him. > Nor do I have to present any evidence. You misordered this: it should say "Nor do I have any evidence to present." > I'm not the one selling StrongHold. No, you're the one trying to torpedo its sales to get back at certain individuals for some perceived slight. > I have received several threatening communications from C2Net's lawyers, > which were discussed at length on this list. To avoid unpleasant disputes > I agreed not to disseminate my opinions about StrongHold. Amazingly, C2Net doesn't like to see its product publicly slandered by reptiles like Vulis. If Vulis' opinion were based on anything other than personal ill will - ie, if he had ever actually downloaded and examined Stronghold and found any problems with it - he would have a leg to stand on. As it is, his allegations are completely unfounded. > Please keep this in mind if you consider buying it. Keep in mind that anything Vulis says is in all likelihood a complete lie.

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