December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: SMTP Encryption Extension (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:38:07 +0200 > From: Mike <Michael.Johnson(a)mejl.com> > Subject: Re: SMTP Encryption Extension > Sure, but the idea here was hiding email to defeat traffic analysis. Ssmtp > would raise alarms in any snopper but https would seem like business as > usual, probably just another gif. And https is available through a lot of > firewalls where you can't run ssmtp. Your base assumption is that Mallet is stupid. Bad assumption. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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PGP Inc isn't using CMR (Re: wanted dead or alive: pgp5.5 key pair)Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:06:04 -0700)
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > At 4:34 PM -0700 10/21/97, Adam Back wrote: > >Enciphering minds want to find out how pgp5.0 reacts to this key :-) > > > >(The question is really does pgp5.0 encrypt to the CMR key). > > Why not just try to send a message to "phil(a)pgp.com"? > > Surely PGP, Inc. is itself using its own product? Strangely not. Tom Zerucha asked this question over on open-pgp, and Jon Callas replied: Jon Callas <jon(a)pgp.com> wrote: : Tom Zerucha <@spam-resistant-email-address> wrote: : : But let me ask a question about PGP, Inc. - Do they use the PGP 5.5 : version with corporate key recovery internally? : : No, we don't. We have no need to. It would be inappropriate for our : environment. Guess that answers that one then. > (I know if I were Jon Seybold and I had a radical"No nukes" nut like Phil > on my staff, :-), I'd want to monitor what he was saying to people and what > they were saying to him.) Some fairly hot things by all accounts: all about resistance fighters, and terrorists. Really ought to watch that guy :-) He has a laptop which he carries everywhere too -- probably with his non-CMR old prz(a)acm.org key on it -- reckon he'll be fiercely hanging on to that one :-) Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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Great new GAY Phone Services...can be Absolutely FREE
by 82GuyWire＠live.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Singapore TOILET ALERT
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Apologies to my friends in Singapore, but I am NOT making this up. --Declan] And the top five toilets are... SINGAPORE (Reuters) - A drive to keep public toilets clean and dry is meeting with overwhelming success, the Ministry of Environment said in a "toilet alert" Tuesday. The statement said that in the first week "5,000 Singaporans have called the Clean Public Toilets hotline to identify Singapore's model toilets and to vote for their top five favorite toilets." The ministry launched a poster competition earlier in the month featuring three model toilets and inviting the public to identify their locations, as well as to nominate their favorite public toilets in five categories of locations. Various prizes are involved, including a return trip to Hong Kong to be won in a draw. Singapore is known for public campaigns promoting causes ranging from discouraging littering to encouraging people to have more children. ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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Re: shared keys, proxy encryption (was Re: PGP 5.5 CMR/GAK: a possible solution)
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded with permission, Mark's response: ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:41:49 -0700 (PDT) From: mark(a)unicorn.com To: aba(a)dcs.exeter.ac.uk Cc: mab(a)research.att.com Subject: Re: shared keys, proxy encryption (was Re: PGP 5.5 CMR/GAK: a possible solution) aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk wrote: [Did you intend to send this to the list, or Bcc it? If so, please forward a copy of this reply as well] > What you're describing is an alternate use for CMR: to allow > sales(a)acme.com to have attached to it the request that messages to > that address be encrypted for all the sales people. > > Well that seems reasonable in a way. Still potentially dangerous in > that the NSA will soon enough be asking to be on every one's CMR list. But that's *precisely* what I set out to avoid. The intention is to eliminate the multiple-recipient encryption which is the real problem with PGP 5.5's CMR. The NSA can easily put themselves at the top of the encryption hierachy, but then all mail will *only* be encrypted to the NSA, and the recipient will not be able to read it. Rather than encrypting to multiple recipients, you would encrypt to a single key which is available to all those recipients. > The other alternative is as you say: to have group keys which are > shared amongst the sales people. There are problems with this in > managing the secure distribution of the shared key: sales manager > creates it, and emails securely to all sales team members? > Plausible I suppose. Exactly. Or the individual sales-people create personal 'corporate use keys' and escrow them, or the key is retained in a secure 'black box' which takes incoming email encrypted to the sales department and outputs plaintext. The point is that mail sent to that key can be recovered somehow, but confidential mail sent to their private, personal key cannot. > Problem for both approaches is re-keying: what happens when Fred > leaves the sales team to work for a competitor. I agree. But that can be solved in some fashion; the 'black box' approach, for example. > Really it seems to me that actually having half a dozen sales droids > sharing a key, or being able to decrypt a message because they are all > CMR enforced multiple crypto recipients is a security nightmare either > way :-) Sure, but better than a security nightmare *and* GAK. > Reckon it would be arguably more secure to have the SMTP policy > enforcer decrypt it for them, even. Yep, that was one of the options I listed; the 'black box' above. > I think what PGP are arguing for is ability to recover stored messages > even if they are intended for one recipient only. But this is the one thing they don't seem to have a business case for. In my system, if the mail was encrypted to that recipient's personal key rather than a group key or an individual escrowed key, then the sender had a good reason to do so. In that case, the only reason a company could want to read the mail is for snooping on their employees. I don't believe that PGP or anyone else should be encouraging that. The proxy key stuff seemed interesting, but not something that can be implemented in the next few months. I'm thinking of this as a short-term solution, not long-term. Mark ------- End of forwarded message -------

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We have to keep our keys for HOW long???
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* The Wall Street Journal reported in July that the Environmental Protection Agency has ordered 71 mining companies in Idaho to submit copies of all of the paperwork they have produced in the last 117 years. EPA says it needs the information to help determine who is responsible for lead pollution in Idaho's Silver Valley. According to the president of one firm, the order was so crazy that the EPA investigators "must not live on this planet." Another pointed out that there are not enough copy machines in the region to handle the work. To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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ADMIN: lost messages (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Jeff Barber <jeffb(a)issl.atl.hp.com> > Subject: ADMIN: lost messages > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:22:06 -0400 (EDT) > CPunks list administrators, > > There appears to be an occasional breakdown in the list > distribution/reflection. I am sometimes seeing responses to articles > that I haven't received. For example, a message from > spencer_ante(a)webmagazine.com has been the subject of several > follow-ups (according to their In-reply-to fields, it is message > ID <88256538.00787D24.00(a)pcwhub.pcworld.com>). Yes, there are occassional breakdowns in the communications between the list remailers. The reason that there are several of them is if one goes down for more than a few minutes the whole lists doesn't go down which would occur if we were still on a single remailer. In cases such as this I would suggest checking the archives provided by a couple of sites (I thought since I don't check the archives). > Any clues? Things get lost on occassion? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: PGP 5.5 CMR/GAK: a possible solution
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

mark(a)unicorn.com writes: > When a customer wishes to send email to Joe, he would use this public key. > When encrypting, PGP would detect the tag and put up a dialog box pointing > out that this is a corporate key and if they click on the 'confidential' > button it will be encrypted to the user's personal key prior to encrypting > to the corporate key (by which I mean superencryption, to avoid traffic > analysis). The default would be not to superencrypt; and as a side effect > this system would be compatible with any version of PGP for > non-confidential mail (assuming that version understands the encryption > algorithms in use). Neat, automatic superencryption. Could the same idea work with the Pgp method with the CMR key? You would encrypt to the user first, then reencrypt to the combination of user and CMR key. Would this prevent GAK?

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Re: puff pieces vs tough crypto issues (Re: Singapore TOILET ALERT)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > No offense Declan, but what has this got to do with cypherpunks, > cryptography, crypto politics etc? (This is not a perrygram, this is > a message saying I found that particular article uninteresting). Adam, I believe that Declan may be trying to keep things in perspective, by reminding us who the actual users of "widespread crypto" will be, GAK or no GAK. As a matter of fact, Declan and I are counting on you to explain the issues involved to our good friend and neighbor, Debbie (details below), and get back to us with her thoughts on the crypto issues which are relevant, from her perspective. * At a celebrity auction in May, Debbie Dacoba of Paw Paw, Mich., bid $8,625 for a pair of Mr. Ed's horseshoes and was so overcome with joy when she won that she had to retreat to the ladies' room for 20 minutes until she stopped crying. Later she told a reporter that she would keep the horseshoes in plastic because specks of brown residue in the nail holes "could be manure, which I hope it is because then I have a piece of him." ManureMonger ~~~~~~~~~~~~ To read these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months, go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html (That site contains no graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio. Just text. Deal with it.)

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by mktg＠inet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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