December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Fuck UseNet (fwd)
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com" "Jim Choate" 15-FEB-1997 07:11:54.43 >Perhaps in addition to the X-foo structures we have discussed already we >might consider adding, >X-distrib-policy: foo >Where foo might be, > Public Domain > All rights reserved, contact author for redistribution > Distribution for non-commercial uses permitted > Refer to authors header > Copyleft > etc. >or whatever the policy might be for a given remailer. This would >significantly aid folks in their shopping around. The basic difficulty with this idea is that _senders_ generally don't have much of a choice where the messages go, once you've decided to accept them. In other words, just because you've decided to accept a message doesn't mean it suddenly becomes copyleft/public domain/whatever. Now, if you, say, announced that only subscribers to your particular list, subscribers to any other lists adopting the same idea, and those who'd sign a consent agreement could post through your list, that wouldn't be a problem... although I suspect you wouldn't get many subscribers. -Allen

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Re: Dissolving Choke Points
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So you write: >Many good authors have already left the list and *nothing* will get them >back. Are you implying that any given mailing list should be controlled by the best authors? ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet Excuses are the tools with which those with no purpose in view build for themselves great monuments of nothing.

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Re: [Declan McCullagh: "A List Goes Down In Flames," from Netly]
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <v03010d01af2a5a0699db(a)[17.219.103.204]>, on 02/14/97 at 12:31 PM, Martin Minow <minow(a)apple.com> said: >My first reaction to the "Death of Cypherpunks" (Declan McCullagh's article in >http://netlynews.com Feb 12, 1997) is that it is another example of "The >Tragedy of the Commons." -- the (unsolvable) problem of unlimited access to a >limited resource. Cypherpunks was also >susceptable to the strange Internet phenomenon where people could be proud of >their anti-social, bad behavior (flame wars, "grafitti" in the form of spam). >For this reason, I suspect that the future of the Internet in general, and >Cyphperpunks in particular, will require serious editorial control (as is done >by the Risks and Privacy digests). >The only other alternative I can see would be to limit membership >-- but not limit what members might write. In the long term, I suppose we'll >have sufficiently intelligent software agents that can recognize spam and >flaming and invisibly delete them from our e-mail in-boxes. I compleetly dissagree with you. The "Death of Cypherpunks" was not caused limited resources, or by spam, or by the posts of the "good doctor". It was killed by two factors. The first was the winning and sinviling crowd that was just too dam lazy to filter their mail. With some very basic filtering the majority of the noise could be removed from the list. There were a group of list members that were unwilling to take the small amount of effort required to do this. They are the same type of people who wine and cry that the governmnet should regulate this or regulate that all too willing to give up a "little" freedom for promisises of extra "security". As if this was not bad enough they typically demanded that everyone else give up a "little" freedom along with them so they could have there extra "security". The second and and even more deadly factor in the demise of the list was that John & Sandy listened to these sheep. If there was such a great demand for a censored cypherpunks list then they should have created a new censored list. Those who wanted the services of Sandy to censor the list would have been free to switch while leaving the main list intact. Instead the list was censored and a cypherpunks-flams & a cypherpunks-unsensored lists were created. These list were created with the promise that anything that did not make it onto the main list would be placed onto the flames list. Well the inevitable happened a message was posted that Sandy felt he could not forward to the flames list. All this brew-ha-ha could have been avoided if Sandy had just posted a message to the flame list stating that Dimitri had posted some crap that he could not or would not repost to the flames list. No one would have faulted him for it as all but the newest of list members know Dimitri. Instead threats of lawsuits were addressed to anyone who even mentioned Dimitri's accusations. This blatent act of censorship by Sandy and supported by John is what has brought cypherpunks to where it is right now. Rather irronic that leaders of the fight against "censorship" would use such tactics when it suits their needs. >What bothers me more than anything else about the "solutions" I've seen >proposed to the death of Cypherpunks is that they rely on technology -- and >reject human judgement -- to solve what is, in reality, a social problem. (One >can certainly make the same argument about the V-chip, browser porn filters, >and similar hacks.) What bothers me more than anything is how false "problems" are created so "solutions" can be implemented. Censorship of the list was NEVER needed. Censorship of TV is not needed (ala V-chip). Censorship of cryptology is not needed (via ITAR). Censorship is NEVER needed nor warented. Period. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 0000000 iQCVAwUBMwW7ro9Co1n+aLhhAQHIpQP/QTE6N5KpQoWvdC+mbzodR9th4GKOXjfh RO1gyOElBP42S6VOUkyk1inNAf39l3Zux3z4LG1Eq5PDheXQAtME2d8+niWInpf0 8AOxwO+o6taw/YToXAOCfr29c9ciCUDsjP7fe702x6JcGfSlcjnfyfL5pNXa226A uw3FsD+jgFM= =pb3t -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Welcome
by List-Owner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to Dia's Press Releases mailing list. You will be sent press releases about Dia's exhibitions and other programs. If you have questions or would like to request more press information, please contact Jennie Prebor at jennie(a)diacenter.org or (212) 989-5566 x 118. If you would like to stop receiving mailings, please send an email to list-owner(a)diacenter.org with the subject line "Remove me from Dia News." PLEASE NOTE: You may receive more than one message indicating a succesful subscription. If you joined more than one of Dia's mailing lists, you will receive one message for each list you joined. Thank you for your interest in Dia Center for the Arts. Dia Center for the Arts 548 West 22nd Street New York, NY 10011 http://www.diacenter.org

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Welcome
by List-Owner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to Dia's Advance Listings mailing list. You will be sent advance listings approximately monthly with information on Dia's exhibitions and other upcoming programs. If you have questions or would like to request more press information, please contact Jennie Prebor at jennie(a)diacenter.org or (212) 989-5566 x 118. If you would like to stop receiving mailings, please send an email to list-owner(a)diacenter.org with the subject line "Remove me from Dia News." PLEASE NOTE: You may receive more than one message indicating a succesful subscription. If you joined more than one of Dia's mailing lists, you will receive one message for each list you joined. Thank you for your interest in Dia Center for the Arts. Dia Center for the Arts 548 West 22nd Street New York, NY 10011 http://www.diacenter.org

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FBI_100
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

2-15-97. NYP: "Phone Companies Balk At Latest Plan by FBI." Markoff. Telcos are arguing that the new system will be far more intrusive and expensive than industry first thought, and would expand LEA wiretap capabilities 100-fold. "This is kind of scary. What does the FBI know about our future that we don't?" ----- FBI_100 ---------- See the FBI's latest wiretap plan at: http://jya.com/fbi011497.txt

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Re: Dave Hayes takes over Cypherpunks
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Gilmore proposes useless projects like S/Wan and misguided people waste > their time and effort instead of deploying crypto. What is wrong with S/WAN? I think that it is a great project. > And we already know that Peter Berger is a faggot because he suppresses > free speech on Usenet. - Igor.

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Re: Cypherpunks afraid of spam?
by Matthew Ghio 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: > [Fairly prominent Cypherpunk I'll decline to name- I don't mean to ridicule > him personally, just his (distressingly common) attitude] > > >Just for the record. I will not post to USENET given the spamming that > >seems to go to IDs that appear there. > > [chuckle] > > Just add an anti-spam segment to your email address. > > example: > > jsmith[at]foo.com > > Most people worth talking to have enough of a clue to replace [at] with @. Actually, I have a completely valid email address in this post (for now). If it gets spammed I will just delete the DNS record. (or maybe point it back at the spammer. :) And I'm sure we all know how to use remailers...

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Welcome
by List-Owner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to Dia's Press Releases mailing list. You will be sent press releases about Dia's exhibitions and other programs. If you have questions or would like to request more press information, please contact Jennie Prebor at jennie(a)diacenter.org or (212) 989-5566 x 118. If you would like to stop receiving mailings, please send an email to list-owner(a)diacenter.org with the subject line "Remove me from Dia News." PLEASE NOTE: You may receive more than one message indicating a succesful subscription. If you joined more than one of Dia's mailing lists, you will receive one message for each list you joined. Thank you for your interest in Dia Center for the Arts. Dia Center for the Arts 548 West 22nd Street New York, NY 10011 http://www.diacenter.org

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Switching to full traffic mode
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would like to warn and ask subscribers of cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. We are going ot get full feel from Lance Cottrell and cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com. We will filter messages by Message-ID to get rid of duplicates. It means that there is no sense (unless you want to confirm my integrity as the list host) to be subscribed to any of the other lists, as you will be getting multiple copies of messages. If you are afraid of that and use Unix, the following procmail recipe gets rid of duplicates: # # This recipe removes duplicates! # :0 Wh: msgid.lock | formail -D 32768 msgid.cache I am somwehat concerned by the behavior of my majordomo which is very paranoid about incoming messages: it rejects all messages that it THINKS are attempts to suscribe and unsuscribe. In this rejection, it is sometimes too broad. I do not know how to solve this problem. ATTENTION: if you want to get a feed from me, PLEASE send me a note and do not simply subscribe your mailing list to cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. It is because I want to send you the messages before my majordomo rewrites headers. - Igor.

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