December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: New Laws in Oregon - "Land of the Legal betatest"
by Lee Gibbon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Why do you want Congress to function? "The best government is one that governs least" (Who am I (mis)quoting?). If Congress doesn't do much, we're better off - especially if we had sunset clauses in every law... Assuming a government like ours, the problem I see with "eliminating 90% of the sitting legislature" is the question of who really rules? I favor term limits - only one term per position. I don't like the idea of professional politicians. But, where would the power reside? The bureaucracy and the political parties? -Sounds dangerous to me. Lee <standard disclaimers> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Anderson [SMTP:randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu] > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 1997 10:07 AM > To: roy(a)scytale.com > Cc: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: New Laws in Oregon - "Land of the Legal betatest" > > > On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: > > > > How do you propose to deal with such things as the > Telecommunications Act > > > of 1996 (which incidently included the CDA)? I can see a problem > where > > > one sentence or clause gets thrown out of a major bill (say a > compromise > > > budget, that someone screwed up one minor ammendment), and if you > have > > > that happen 3 times in 6 years, you've lost 90% of your senators! > I'm not > > > saying that your idea isn't without merit, just that it's got a > few > > > problems that strike me as somewhat major.. > > > > Please elaborate, as I can't see _any_ problem with eliminating 90% > of > > the sitting legislature. > > You've completely missed my point. This would be an on-going problem. > Congress can only function with some idea of compromise in it. When > you're passing budgets, especially the kind of budgets we have right > now, > they get big and complicated, I can't see that changing significantly, > even with a massive turnover of members. But having no consistency in > Congress at all, even for some "good" reps would be horrible. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Ryan Anderson - <Pug Majere> "Who knows, even the horse might > sing" > Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.." > randerso(a)ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the > USA > PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -

2 1

Re: The Global Fix is In
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm reading a book, "Who Will Tell the Truth" with some very clear insights into How it All Works. The bottom line is the Bottom Line and the reason the crypto debate is going this way is due to exactly one thing: Money. I know there are those amongst this readership who feel that there is no place for the usual political process in dealing with the crypto issues, but that's not a universal or a given, nor is it necessarily practical in the long run. But within the existing structure the missing component in the debate is the active participation of a lot of dollars. The weight of Micro$osft + Netscape + (name your favorite list) is miniscule, and their players woefully inexperienced, compared to McDonnell D., G.E. Fed., TRW., Lock/Martin, IBM, and others who stand to gain hugely from a Federally-mandated and controlled PKI. Those heavyweights are all drinking buddies with the other Washington sorts who are in search of ever-expanding missions in life, and the result is a coterie who's primary interest isn't even remotely concerned with Child Pornography, Money Laundering, etc. but their own aggrandizement measured in personal and corporate dollars. There are no doubt massive investments being made by Industry in the conservative thinktanks who produce the intellectual fodder-de-jour that supports the position of this elite, and overwhelm the likes of McCain and Kerrey with impossible-for-the-legislature-to-understand managed "information" which boils it all down to the 4 Horsemen arguments. What's necessary here is a knowledgeable application of the same techniques, a coalition organization comprised of large business interests with an awareness of how Bad this all is, competing on the same turf. Noble anarchist or Constitutional arguments, whining about our Rights and such, are insignificant and irrelevant to the players. Who will belly up to the bar and provide leadership on terms that will truly be effective? ======================================================= At 10:16 AM 6/21/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: > > >The "Meeting of the Eight," formerly the G7, is happening in Denver. >Listening to what's coming out of it, it's apparent that the Four Horsemen >are front and center. Clinton is speaking of a network of banking and >communications policy coordinators, to detect and halt drug dealing, money >laundering, and nuclear terrorism. > >This fits with the details of reports about global wiretapping efforts, >about joint intelligence activities, and, of course, with the OECD/GAK laws >being proposed, passed, and about to be signed into law about "Key >Recovery" and "Trusted Third Parties." > >The fix is in. > >It probably won't be long before Stronghold is barred for export from >either Britain or RSA (the other one); both Tony Blair and Nelson Mandela >are Friends of Bill, so a few phone calls should take care of that little >problem. (And Norway and the other Scandinavian countries are part of the >global wiretap agreement, so I rather doubt free export of PGP 5.x code out >of Norway will be feasible, despite the OCR effort now underway there.) > >(Not that Clinton will mention Stronghold to Blair...that's far too much >microdetail. Jimmy Carter might have gotten involved at that level, but not >Bill. Details will be left to underlings.) > >The call to Japan, probably the visit by David Aaron, stopped NTT's plans >for exporting the RSA chip. > >Anguilla and other "offshore" havens, will be subject to the same kinds of >pressure. Mark my words. > >It's not hopeless. Physical havens are vulnerable, to all sorts of >pressures (I doubt many cryptographers want to set up shop in Libya or >Iraq, not that these places would be hospitable to Cypherpunks sorts of >goals and methods). > >Going underground, using the untraceable features of cyberspace, may be the >last, best hope. > >--Tim May > >There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. >Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. >"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > > > >

9 13

Adults Only!
by Danielle-Cindy＠emirates.net.ae 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Looking for the hottest adult action on the web? The Newly Renovated 4XXXX FREE HardCore is the place to go For The Hottest Pictures and Services, Plus . . . Links and Reviews of the hottestest sites on the Net. --CLICK HERE! For Instant Access to the finest in HardCore Adult Entertainment!

1 0

The Global Fix is In
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The "Meeting of the Eight," formerly the G7, is happening in Denver. Listening to what's coming out of it, it's apparent that the Four Horsemen are front and center. Clinton is speaking of a network of banking and communications policy coordinators, to detect and halt drug dealing, money laundering, and nuclear terrorism. This fits with the details of reports about global wiretapping efforts, about joint intelligence activities, and, of course, with the OECD/GAK laws being proposed, passed, and about to be signed into law about "Key Recovery" and "Trusted Third Parties." The fix is in. It probably won't be long before Stronghold is barred for export from either Britain or RSA (the other one); both Tony Blair and Nelson Mandela are Friends of Bill, so a few phone calls should take care of that little problem. (And Norway and the other Scandinavian countries are part of the global wiretap agreement, so I rather doubt free export of PGP 5.x code out of Norway will be feasible, despite the OCR effort now underway there.) (Not that Clinton will mention Stronghold to Blair...that's far too much microdetail. Jimmy Carter might have gotten involved at that level, but not Bill. Details will be left to underlings.) The call to Japan, probably the visit by David Aaron, stopped NTT's plans for exporting the RSA chip. Anguilla and other "offshore" havens, will be subject to the same kinds of pressure. Mark my words. It's not hopeless. Physical havens are vulnerable, to all sorts of pressures (I doubt many cryptographers want to set up shop in Libya or Iraq, not that these places would be hospitable to Cypherpunks sorts of goals and methods). Going underground, using the untraceable features of cyberspace, may be the last, best hope. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

9 11

Bomb-making instructions....
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The latest crime for which Senator Diane Swinestein has earned the [CENSORED] is her "bomb-making instructions on the Internet are illegal" bill. But I have a question. Does this mean CNN will face prosecution if it publishes the transcripts of the McVeigh case? Keith Henson, an explosives enthusiast since the early 1960s, was describing to us last night at a Silicon Valley party just how accurate the instructions were in the transcripts of the McVeigh trial, as the experts pointed out the steps needed to make the liquid explosive "Astrolight" (or "Astrolite"). Keith pointed out that most of the "lay" reports had repeated some of the usual lay errors about ammonium nitrate and fuel oil bombs, but that the full court transcript "got it right" on the conversion of the precursors to the more effective liquid form. It was Keith who raised the issue of the Swinestein bill making publication of court transcripts a crime...sort of collides with the notion of open trials.... (This party was a regular plotting opportunity...we figured out just how big a Ryder truck has to be to hold the "ergs" needed to take down some targets that sorely need taking down...all in theory, you understand.) We need to hold a trial for this bitch. Then a quick trip to the firewall. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

3 2

The spam thread
by Jason William RENNIE 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ooops, looks like i started a raging debate. Sorry if this debate bores anybody but as was said to me, just delete it. I notice nobody commented on the i just dont want advertising in my mailbox point, and why shouldn't they be billed. What i suggested WASN'T a new law that could be abused etc. It was a very minor legal precedent, where the owner of a phone or email box could be paid for advertising in in IF the marketer was informed. To Ross, SPAM may be freedom of expression as my child pornography, but 2 things, 1. What about my rights to privacy, and my rights to my mailbox that I pay for. Why should it be used as an advertising medium if i font want it to be used for one ?? 2. By your argument, mailbombing of all flavours is free expression and should be allowed. Seeing as this follows logically RU going to get upset if i mail bomb you ?? All this started when i asked if SPAM might be coming through this list, i didn't think it would have tyhis effect, but discussion is healthy. Anyway shall we let this thread die at this point ?? Jason =8-]

2 1

Re: spam on this list
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 23 Jun 97 at 22:52, Jason William RENNIE wrote: > wouldn't make it worth it. Doesn't aybody in the US want to take it up > and kill spam once and for all ?? You only need the legal precedent > set. Spam is free speech... We, here in the USofA don't want any new laws, thank you. We've got way more than we need right now. Spam will never die! Spam is free speech! Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

2 1

2
by TruthMailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anon-To:

1 0

Re: spook pressure on crypto exports
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ian Grigg <iang(a)systemics.com> writes: > Bill said: > > ... and have been trying to work on the Irish...) > > and Adam said: > > Ireland is new to me. What's their problem? > > Ditto! I'd like to know because ... > > > Who's exporting things to attract spook export attention over there? > > Systemics is an Irish company, and so is Baltimore, and we both > are 'exporters' depending on one's viewpoint. So's SSE (subsidiary of Siemens-Nixdorf). But that's mostly/all defense stuff, so they're presumably in thick with the military intelligence, and export permission would be a snip for them. > I don't know about Baltimore, but there is not a lot of pressure > they can put on Systemics, as the majority of the Cryptix effort is > now handed over to non-Systemics people. That's the beauty of > freeware. Ireland allows intangible export, no permission required, same as UK. They do say they would like a list of customers after the fact, but that's just would like, not you are required to give or else. (Clearly it would be a bit difficult to list the customers off your open access web page). For tangible exports you need permission, much as in the UK. I get the impression that the `open for business' attitude (love that 10% corporate tax break, is systemics getting this?) would mean you'd get an easier time than in the UK. They promise fast efficient turn around on export applications. (Unlike NZ MFAT, reread Peter Gutmann's story of down under intrigue on http://jya.com/nsazeal.htm amazing, nearly bankrupted the company!) > In contrast, I have been told that Ireland represents a prime place > for this sort of stuff, as there are no restrictions whatever. I think it's better than say UK. But clearly not `no restrictions' at least for tangible exports re above comments. I don't know how this works out in practice, what they give tangible export permission to, etc. Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

1 0

Netscape, 128-bit export
by Ariel Glenn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

from their web site, at http://www.netscape.com/flash2/newsref/pr/newsrelease428.html --- MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (June 24, 1997) -- Netscape Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: NSCP) today announced the United States Department of Commerce has granted the company permission to export Netscape Communicator client software with 128-bit encryption capabilities. Available for immediate download from the Netscape Internet site, Netscape Communicator with strong encryption would allow users worldwide to enjoy far greater protection for their information when communicating with certified, strong encryption applications on Intranets and the Internet. Netscape also received approval to export Netscape SuiteSpot server software featuring 128-bit encryption capabilities to certified banks worldwide. VeriSign will be providing a special-use digital certificate which enables the encryption. This will allow Netscape Communicator users to access their banking information from almost anywhere in the world and communicate using strong encryption with those banks which have implemented Netscape SuiteSpot servers and completed the certification process. --- some pr crap deleted --- International users who have Netscape Communicator do not need to download a new version of Netscape Communicator to take advantage of the strong encryption capabilities being announced today. Negotiation of the strong encryption between international versions of Netscape Communicator and Netscape SuiteSpot servers approved for export to banks occurs through a unique mechanism based on a special-use digital certificate. etc... ----- So... is this new approval for export of 128-bit encryption only for encryption between the users and these banks, or is it general? If it's general, is GAK built in or not? And if not, how did they get approval? Ariel Glenn / AcIS R&D / Columbia University ariel(a)columbia.edu #include <stddisclaimer.h>

1 0