December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Who "invented" remailers?
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.1.32.19970605181309.00767c08(a)popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 06/05/97 at 06:13 PM, Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: >Suppose, for instance, that the Feds (whatever COINTELPRO calls >themselves these days) are watching Alice the Activist, and find that >she's using Bob's Remailer. So they watch Bob's Remailer, and find it's >sending traffic to Carol(a)foobar.com. Maybe they haven't known about her >before. Or maybe they check with foobar.com and find she's probably Carol >the Commie, who they hadn't previously known used email. No, they can't >prove that Alice sent mail to Carol - but she's still a lead, and since >they're both politically incorrect people, it's not a bad guess. >Even with multiple remailers, say 10, this still works. Well I guess I should let the cat out of the bag, :) I have been working on addressing this very problem. I haven't had time to write a formal paper on this but I can give you some of the basics. It makes use of a stego of sorts. Alice would post a message to a non threating mailing list. In that list certain key words would be misspelled. Carol would use these key words to tell her to look for a certain message posted anonymously & encrypted in a newsgroup (stego in a gif file to a binary group works quite well). Now it would be possiable to track that Alice was sending messages to a remailer there would be no way to track that Carol was receiving these messages. At best it would be know that Carol was a reader of alt.binaries.japan.cartoons or some other non-threating newsgroup. Now this requires both Carol & Alice to be running the same software for generating the spelling stegos and interperting them. It helps if Alice has the reputation of being a very bad speller (ha and you all laughed at my spelling mistakes). The use of a special dictionary that contains common mispellings of common words is a great aid but I have yet to find one in electronic form. An OTP should be generated and used as a seed to the software to keep the two systems in synch. This can be encrypted & stegoed and posted to a pre-selected newsgroup. Once the inital synching of the two systems have been acomplished new pads can be generated and distributed by the same mechanisims. This does not protect Alice from comming under the guns for using a remailer nor does it provide a way for Carol to reply. The anonymous remailers could be completly bypassed and both Carrol and Alice could do all communication through stegoed newsgroup postings. Alos mailing list need not be used but the plaintext messages could be posted via newsgroups. There is a reliabilty issue going this route (from my personal experaince mailing list are more reliable than newsgroups YMMV). The details of applying such a system is more complex but the above gives you the basics of it. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5d+s49Co1n+aLhhAQEwUAP9EzMOcL0c10ZiF6BrbJ6unXTIbXaJ8zIp 7c2wVdcF81HBMbYXkloyCJGfekRpH+hFN6Ga85XHQ3iS/SD4PUykWx/rrGT6y3Ws fzvbQ3ST3IR7VBYqtHb49aNNhcr3yg6S5ecp3IXi49WNxi4A+mLQ80omB/mGSEC2 0PA1fDH3bMA= =wa// -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Traffic Analysis Re: Who "invented" remailers?
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > > It all depends on: > > - how many other messages are being received by Lucky and Tim (PGP messages > arriving from remailers, obviously, not just ordinary traffic, though > ordinary traffic helps a bit) A remailer system could have a mechanized procedure for ensuring that those who wished could receive cover mail at certain times no matter what was in the queque. If a message came in that was meant for them, then it would replace the cover message in the queque. Has anyone concerned with remailer development spent any time actually doing remailer traffic analysis, similar to a cryptographer who does cryptanalysis to raise his level of competence? It would be interesting to see the results of messages being sent between cypherpunks and encrypted with a "TA" key so that they could be separated and logged for traffic analysis. I would like to see what kind of results could be divined by those who know remailer operations intimately. Al Gore, ITHM

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BOUNCE cypherpunks@Algebra.COM: Admin request of type /\bcancel\b/i at line 7 Admin request of type
by Igor Chudov ＠ home 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com ----- >From owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Thu Jun 5 22:56:26 1997 From: owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060355.XAA06364(a)www.video-collage.com> To: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM: Admin request of type /\bcan-cel\b/i at line 7 Admin request of type /\bcan-cel\b/i at line 9 >From cpunks Thu Jun 5 23:55:48 1997 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06352 for <cypherpunks(a)algebra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA26788 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhp.com (dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26783 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lucifer@localhost) by dhp.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23074 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:36:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:36:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199706060336.XAA23074(a)dhp.com> X-Authentication-Warning: dhp.com: lucifer set sender to lucifer(a)dhp.com using -f Subject: Dimitri McVeigh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: lucifer(a)dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer) Comments: Please report misuse of this automated remailing service to <lucifer(a)dhp.com>. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Adam Back wrote: > Hallam-Baker <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes: > > I'll accept that the ranting faction do some good work but I've > > not seen anything usefull out of either Bell or Vulis unless that > > is you are an FBI agent looking to get a promotion from Freeh. > Dimitri rights code sometimes. He wrote a can-cel-bot. Very > constructive piece of work in an indirect way. See: having nice > freely available can-cel-bots enables technically clueless, would > be-censors to censor more. They censor more, and cause a nuisance for > themselves sending out tons of can-cel messages. This incentivizes > more and more people to ignore can-cels (the trend in news > administration these days I understand is to ignore can-cels entirely), > which means that you can't have your USENET posts censored nearly as > easily. Dimitri has long pushed the envelope of censorship and challenged those who don't like it to do something about it. The reason that Hallam-Baker is able to post thinly veiled "Dimitri is a cocksucker!" messages to the list is because Dimitri refused to lay down and quit when he was forcibly censored for his "Gilmore is a cocksucker!" messages. If the censorship coupe d'etat had succeded, then Hallam-Baker's post would have been trashed into the flames list. Dimitri and others, such as the Freedom-Knights, made it possible to "route around" the censorship of USENET posts to such an extent that any attempt I might make to censor Hallam-Baker's demeaning of Dimitri on USENET would have little effect. The bottom line is that Hallam-Baker's demeaning of Dimitri without facing censorship on this list and on USENET is partly the result of the efforts of Dimitri, himself, to fight censorship. This is not surprising, since, after all, Dimitri is a cypherpunk. (Despite all of his claims to the contrary.) TruthMonger ----- End of forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com -----

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more GAK crap
by Ariel Glenn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From today's Nando Times... Meeting reportedly will aim to fight obscenity on Internet Copyright 1997 Nando.net Copyright 1997 Agence France-Presse TOKYO (June 6, 1997 11:43 a.m. EDT) - Japan, the United States and European nations will hold an unprecedented ministerial meeting next month to study ways to restrict obscenity on the Internet and regulate electronic commerce, it was reported Friday. The meeting in Bonn July 6-8 will focus on measures to crack down on obscene and violent pictures on the Internet, Jiji Press quoted informed sources as saying. It will also discuss universal criteria for encoding information in electronic commerce to protect private information, Jiji said. Japan will be represented by the posts and telecommunications minister, Hisao Horinouchi, the sources said. ----- Ariel Glenn / AcIS R&D / Columbia University ariel(a)columbia.edu #include <stddisclaimer.h>

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Re: "Clinton has done a great deal for Intel"--more trolling
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <HZZu8D20w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com>, on 06/06/97 at 12:07 AM, dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) said: >Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: >> More trolling from Crispin. Why am I not surprised? >Let's all pledge not to waste any more time responding to KKKent >KKKrispin. >[It worked with SternFUD :-) ] I find Kents posts usefull even though I don't agree with them. He serves a usefull purpors in many respects. 1: He provides a window into the thinkings of the opposition. 2: Replying to his posts help us to form answers to attacks on various positions that members of the list support. 3: Gives us pause to reflect on our positions on various issues (who know he may even be right every now and them <G>). 4: It's no fun preaching to the choir. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5eZkI9Co1n+aLhhAQFQ1gQAtRmQfZkDusGW5XSdep0uPlY9sw4aWAxm ppecGnLtMCsG3wRuzYiRYWbmvHq93Tp9IihhzyEHua6HqrI5kql4cCJDFThwWefW gwYaKliLM7YN5nT3MMoUcfryjZwDxEkcbP/Y6D4f/Y//4yLTCPz28w48t5gdU9q6 Qgq2+u/SguM= =rCXR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Webpage picketing (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> > Date: Wed, 04 Jun 97 23:46:16 -0500 > Subject: Re: Webpage picketing (fwd) > Well this is why I had wanted to set the analogies aside. There are some > real diferences between cyberspace and your metaspace analogy of the > picket line. In cyberspace there is no sidewalk for your picket to stand > and for me to pay as little or as much attention as I wish. But there is, the publicly funded routers on the publicly funded network which are handling public traffic sitting in nice little queues just waiting to be processed. Perhaps a slightly more complicated setup might make it clearer. Consider that we have some length of fiber laying from Chicago to Salt Lake City. That fiber is fully owned/funded by the federal government. The two routers on the end of the cable are also fully owned. Now from those routers extends another network cable that goes to fully privately owned networks. Now in Salt Lake City there is a young 14 year old girl that just took an at home pregnancy test. It turned up positive and she has pretty much lost it. Now in Chicago there is a webpage for an abortion clinic. Her sister lives in Chicago. The girl gets on her trusty little bit-pusher and proceeds to contact that page from a lookup done in Yahoo. Now at this point her parents still think that what you don't know can't hurt you and her sister has a vistor for a few days that summer. Now ask yourself, does a anti-abortion group have any claim to providing that young girl alternate information that is not pro-abortion? Perhaps this will better exemplify the demarcation I am making. I admit it is a thin line, but that is all it takes. > A more closer analogy between cyberspace and metaspace is that your > picketors are not standing off to the side but are blocking the door and > the only way I can enter is to read their signs first. This is the point > where your picketors have oversteped the bounds of their 1st Amendment > rights. While the have the right to picket infront of the store they > cannot interfere with the comming and goings of the customers. The has > been well tested in the courts. The problem with extending the picket > analogy to cyberspace is there are no sidewalks. It's all or nothing. > Either you are blocking the door or you are not Not at all, blocking implies a stoppage NOT a delay. I suggest you sit outside an abortion clinic when the picketers are there. I assure you they are up close and personal. The old ruling of 15ft. seperation was over-turned just this year I believe. It is true that they may not block you but they are allowed to delay your journey slightly with civil coverage. I further belive the court would look at the nature of the Internet and the structure of the web and determine that a single page at the very beginning or perhaps a small splash screen first would not be an unwarranted imposition. I want to make it clear, I am a strict Constitutionalist. I don't see the government having the delegated authority to spend any public money on the Internet, human cloning, BATF, DEA, etc. I believe strongly that such enterprises are best left fully in the state and individuals care. I most definitely believe that were the 9th and 10th Amendment interpreted and used actively we would see a massive decline in government intervention and as a consequence lower taxes. _______________________________________________________________________ | | | Speak the truth, but leave immediately after. | | | | Slovenian Proverb | | | | Jim Choate ravage(a)ssz.com | | The Armadillo Group www.ssz.com | | Austin, Texas, USA 512-451-7087 | |_______________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Webpage picketing (fwd)
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199706060440.XAA08064(a)einstein.ssz.com>, on 06/05/97 at 11:40 PM, Jim Choate <ravage(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com> said: >Forwarded message: >> From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> >> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 97 23:46:16 -0500 >> Subject: Re: Webpage picketing (fwd) >> Well this is why I had wanted to set the analogies aside. There are some >> real diferences between cyberspace and your metaspace analogy of the >> picket line. In cyberspace there is no sidewalk for your picket to stand >> and for me to pay as little or as much attention as I wish. >But there is, the publicly funded routers on the publicly funded network >which are handling public traffic sitting in nice little queues just >waiting to be processed. >Perhaps a slightly more complicated setup might make it clearer. Consider >that we have some length of fiber laying from Chicago to Salt Lake City. >That fiber is fully owned/funded by the federal government. The two >routers on the end of the cable are also fully owned. Now from those >routers extends another network cable that goes to fully privately owned >networks. Now in Salt Lake City there is a young 14 year old girl that >just took an at home pregnancy test. It turned up positive and she has >pretty much lost it. Now in Chicago there is a webpage for an abortion >clinic. Her sister lives in Chicago. The girl gets on her trusty little >bit-pusher and proceeds to contact that page from a lookup done in Yahoo. >Now at this point her parents still think that what you don't know can't >hurt you and her sister has a vistor for a few days that summer. >Now ask yourself, does a anti-abortion group have any claim to providing >that young girl alternate information that is not pro-abortion? Well yes & no. :) Yes they have the same free speech right as anyone else. Do they have the right to force anyone to listen to their speech or force them to distribute it no. They can put up there own web page and if yahoo choses to they can provide links to it (thouhg yahoo is not required to do so). Anyone intrested in listening to what they have to say is free to go to their web site just as anyone is free to go to the abortion site and read that info. The anti-abortion group should not be required to present the views of their opposition and the same for the abortion group. >Perhaps this will better exemplify the demarcation I am making. I admit >it is a thin line, but that is all it takes. >> A more closer analogy between cyberspace and metaspace is that your >> picketors are not standing off to the side but are blocking the door and >> the only way I can enter is to read their signs first. This is the point >> where your picketors have oversteped the bounds of their 1st Amendment >> rights. While the have the right to picket infront of the store they >> cannot interfere with the comming and goings of the customers. The has >> been well tested in the courts. The problem with extending the picket >> analogy to cyberspace is there are no sidewalks. It's all or nothing. >> Either you are blocking the door or you are not >Not at all, blocking implies a stoppage NOT a delay. I suggest you sit >outside an abortion clinic when the picketers are there. I assure you >they are up close and personal. The old ruling of 15ft. seperation was >over-turned just this year I believe. It is true that they may not block >you but they are allowed to delay your journey slightly with civil >coverage. I further belive the court would look at the nature of the >Internet and the structure of the web and determine that a single page at >the very beginning or perhaps a small splash screen first would not be an >unwarranted imposition. Well down here in Pensacola where we like to shoot abortion doctors I beleive that there is a 50' seperation (other side of the street). I don't know how the courts would rule but from past rulling against picketors interfering with the customers of a business I would tend to dissagree. To be honest I am not up on which way the wind is blowing in the courts on this issue. I do feel that the delay is unconstutional. It is where the fine line between your and my 1st amendment rights cross. The size and amount of delay is irrelevant from a constitutional standpoint (can't be a little bit pregnet can't be a little bit unconstitional). This is where are disagreement over the picket analogy rest. Inoreder for the picket analogy to be extended to cyberspace it requires me to download someone's elses speech before I can download the speech that I want to hear. In metaspace there is a sidewalk for the picketers to stand and I can pass them by without slowing down never hearing what they have to say. Here localy I have them well trained, when they see my vette they know not to block the driveway as I will not slow down for them (actually the sound of the 427 is enought to get them moving off to the side). >I want to make it clear, I am a strict Constitutionalist. I don't see the >government having the delegated authority to spend any public money on >the Internet, human cloning, BATF, DEA, etc. I believe strongly that such >enterprises are best left fully in the state and individuals care. I most >definitely believe that were the 9th and 10th Amendment interpreted and >used actively we would see a massive decline in government intervention >and as a consequence lower taxes. Never questioned it. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5elpY9Co1n+aLhhAQHj2wQAxcypN4AERgmHy1X5aDZI9/vMxKfXiQrG REgPV2inTnatWf05u6QWTyG8FjQecIQCSFyNa3OCjDU17u1vqjN91lvo+K3jtotV f88jkE4OSNzEZVKCZ0FjpWVECvFk1cpKgqQKtH4UFUmf04NDxgQ8nNFXu0cESA16 YchbsjWz7js= =Krwo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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June 18th SF C'punks meeting: export controls on trial
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We're having yet another "Cypherpunks Dress-Up Day" on Wednesday, June 18th. Meet at the Federal Building in San Francisco, 450 Golden Gate Avenue, at 10:15AM, dressin' sharp 'n' actin' cool. There will also be a regular 2nd-Saturday c'punks meeting this month (I think it's at PGP, Inc.) The Bernstein case is moving toward a close. Both we and the government have asked the court to render its final judgement. We're asking her to declare both the State Department and Commerce Department crypto export control schemes unconstitutional, and to enjoin (order) the government to stop enforcing them. They're asking to keep the status quo, and keep full discretion to change it whenever they want. The two sides have exchanged their motions, declarations, and opposition briefs. The final salvos will occur on the morning of June 18th, as we do "oral argument" in front of Judge Marilyn Hall Patel. There she'll get to question us before she makes her decision. In this final round of hearings, we're exploring these issues: * Do the new Commerce Department export controls require people to get a government license before they can speak? * Do these controls impermissibly punish speech after the fact? * Are they too vague to constitutionally regulate speech? * Are they so broadly worded that they unconstitutionally limit speech protected by the First Amendment? * Can Prof. Bernstein challenge the law directly, as it applies to everyone, or only as it applies to him? * Does the President's declaration of an "international emergency" have any effect, when there is no emergency and the only issue is domestic and usual? * Can cryptographic assistance, technology, and software be regulated even though the law only applies to "foreign interest in property" and excludes "communications"? * Can these things be regulated even though the law precludes regulation of "informational materials"? * Should the judge void, or reaffirm, her previous decision against the State Dept. export controls? * Should the judge merely declare the Government's actions unconstitutional, or should she also explicitly order them to stop? * Should she stop the enforcement of the unconstitutional controls against everyone, or only against Prof. Bernstein? Watch the wheels of justice grind! Shake hands with the intrepid lawyers who are working hard to protect our rights! Banter with NSA representatives specially flown in for the occasion! Talk with journalists who cover crypto! Be quoted talking about crypto freedom! Finally meet our reclusive plaintiff, Professor Dan Bernstein! We will follow the hearing with a nearby press conference, then have lunch at Max's Opera Plaza, a block away at Van Ness Avenue and Golden Gate Avenue. (Alternative lunch ideas are welcome.) As background, Dan Bernstein, ex-grad-student from UC Berkeley, is suing the State Department, NSA, Commerce Department, Justice Department, and other agencies, with help from the EFF. These agencies restrained Dan's ability to publish a paper, as well as source code, for the crypto algorithm that he invented. We claim that their procedures, regulations, and laws are not only unconstitutional as applied to Dan, but in general. Full background and details on the case, including all of our legal papers (and many of the government's as well), are (or will soon be) in the EFF Web archives at: http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/ITAR_export/Bernstein_case. Like Phil Karn's and Peter Junger's cases, this lawsuit really has the potential to outlaw the whole NSA crypto export scam. We intend to make your right to publish and export crypto software as well- protected by the courts as your right to publish and export books. It will probably take more years, and an eventual Supreme Court decision, to make it stick. At the last hearing, we convinced the judge that the State Department export control laws really are unconstitutional. Her order restoring our legal right to publish crypto source code was a wonderful Christmas present. The government stopped issuing State Department licenses, but two weeks later started requiring virtually identical Commerce Department licenses. We think Judge Patel will see through this sham, and we hope she'll explicitly order them to cease. Please make a positive impression on the judge. Don those mothball-scented conservative duds. Show her -- by showing up -- that this case matters to more people than just the plaintiff and defendant. Demonstrate that her decision will make a difference to society. That the public and the press are watching, and really do care that she handles the issue well. We'll have to be quiet and orderly while we're in the courthouse. There will be no questions from the audience (that's us), and no photography there, but the session will be tape-recorded and transcribed, and you can take notes if you like. The lobby guards will want to hold onto guns, "munitions", and even small pocketknives, before they'll let you go upstairs to the courtrooms. It's unlikely that Judge Patel will decide then-and-there. Instead, we will get some insights into how she is leaning, based on her questions and comments. Her written decision will come out some weeks or months later. Even if she decides in our favor and issues an injunction, this isn't the end of the work. The Government would almost certainly attempt to have the injunction stayed (stopped) while they appeal the case to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (also here in San Francisco). Then there's the appeal itself, in which we'll probably spend six months to a year defending Judge Patel's decision in front of a higher court. Followed by a potential appeal to the Supreme Court. The fat lady won't sing on June 18th, but the orchestra will be in full swing and she'll be waiting in the wings. Please join us on the dance floor, in your best regalia. John Gilmore PS: If you can't come, you can still contribute. Come to EFF's rock-and-roll fund-raiser at the Fillmore the following night, Thursday, June 19th, 7PM. $100/person, including a year of EFF membership. Current EFF members can buy two tickets at half price. There you really *will* get to dance! (If you're a musician, find a sponsor, and you can play at the Fillmore.) Reserve tickets at http://www.eff.org/fillmore/. See you there!

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Re: [CONTROVERSIAL]: A Defense of Terrorism
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Consider, for example, a Black child in the United States who dies of > a trivial curable disease because of the lack of health care. The attempts of Hallam-Baker II Esquire Jr. Knight of the Realm, etc., to separate the world into supporters of "good" child murderers and supporters of "bad" child murderers, reflects the attitudes that lead to those who feel disenfranchised by the government and society to decide that they have little to lose by striking out at the system in one way or another. Dimitri raises a deeply valid issue here which goes to the heart of defining what separates a "bean counter" from a "child-murdering monster." We can't save everyone dying of an incurable disease and provide health care for everyone, except at great cost. We can't put in place airline safety measures or monitor the activities of law enforcement agencies for free. The government officially puts the price of a human life at 2.5 million dollars. When a safety problem is found with an aircraft, for example, that is the figure used to calculate whether the problem will be fixed or allowed to take X number of human lives. The same concept applies to government and corporate decisions regarding worker safety (or death), public safety (or death), health care (or death), and a multitude of other issues. The same thing applies to warfare and self-defence, as well. Society, government, corporations and individuals all "count the cost" of the various options available to settle a conflict. A person who might kill another to prevent them from stealing their family's life savings would probably not kill another to prevent them from stealing their lunch box. And a person who would kill another to prevent them from stealing their family's life savings might not kill another to prevent them from stealing *your* life savings. > Joe Stalin himself took part in several spectacular terrorist acts in > his youth, which resulted in deaths of dozens of "innocent bystanders". Who is the murdering monster--Stalin, Reagan, or McVeigh? It depends on whether you ask Newt Gingrich, Saddam Hussein or Joe Oklahoma. Are the government and corporate bean-counters who decide not to fix known safety problems murdering monsters? What if they placed the value of a human life at *ten* dollars? A *million* dollars? Americans aren't outraged over the loss of life, they are merely self- servingly objecting to the fact that they are being personally presented with the bill that is coming due for their government's actions. Even some of those objecting are merely arguing over the "cost" of the bill. (i.e. - death count, age of victims) If McVeigh had whacked out 168 Iranians to free one American hostage, he would be an American hero. If he had whacked out 168 Americans to free the U.S. from a Stalinist takeover, he would be a hero. Well, he whacked out 168 Americans to free our minds from the belief that we will bear no personal cost for the aggression and oppression that the government perpetrates in our name, and to some he is a hero. Hallam-Baker would have us believe that anyone who does not roundly condemn McVeigh is in favor of the death of children. Like Truman, Churchill and Roosevelt were in favor of the death of children? Unless Hallam-Baker wants to propose that everyone who has ever supported conflict in support of a cause is in favor of the death of children, then he is just a horse's ass who uses smear tactics where logic fails. > What I'm driving at is: someone said earlier that Cypherpunks don't make > bombs, Cypherpunks write code. Well, my response is, if you write code > for anonymous electronic commerce that seriously challenges the gubmint, > in a free market environment, then the gubmint will first try to regulate > it out of existence, and if it fails, it will use whatever force is > necessary, including jailing and shooting people, to fight for it survival. "I didn't put them in the ovens, I just wrote the code that releases the gas. What kind of monster would bomb a Weapons Laboratory that has a day-care center in it?" The question mainstream America is asking, is: "What kind of monster would break *my* eggs to make an omlette?" What kind of monster would write code that allows someone to send email containing child pornography anonymously? What kind of monster would write code that can be used to hide drug transactions? What kind of monster would write code that can be used by terrorists who break *my* omlettes to avoid discovery? Hallam-Baker and his ilk want the government to serve them their omlette at the dinner table so that they can deny their knowledge of and complicity in other people's eggs being broken in the kitchen. Then they can climb on their high horse and complain loudly when the victims of the government's fraud and abuse decide to break a few eggs themself. I'm not in favor of the death of children in Waco, Oklahoma City, Dublin, Jerusalem, Dresden, or Hiroshima. For Hallam-Baker to suggest that I and others on the list are is the height of slanderous hypocrisy. It is a reality of life that there is a cost associated with freedom and with life itself. It is up to each of us to make our own decision as to whether we will take part in determining who pays, and how much, or whether we delegate those decisions to others and try to distance ourself from them. We can applaud the L.A. police when they tell "white" lies on the witness stand about "little" things like not considering the husband of a murder victim a suspect when they climb over his fence, but then we will end up complaining when someone we think is a murderer remains unconvicted because the jury can't determine where the lying stops and the truth begins. We can justify an armed government assault on "cultists" who are in possession of fewer guns than many mainstream Christians, but then we will end up complaining when someone else who is "outside" the mainstream decides that what is good for the gander is good for the goose. The issue of Waco versus OKC is not one of "good" guys and "bad" guys. It is a difference of opinion over the cost of freedom and the value of human life. 168 people at 2.5 million/life comes to about one and three- quarter billion dollars that we paid for the tragedy at Waco. Americans seem to be more than willing for citizens of other countries to bear the cost of freedom when we decide to invade and attack them in order to protect democracy, etc. Perhaps McVeigh should have bombed the Iranians to protest Waco--then he might be an American hero...maybe even the next President--a white Colin Powell. If Americans want to cry out in dismay over the "wrong" people being held accountable for the tragedy in Waco, then they might want to think about demanding that the "right" people be held accountable in the face of future government atrocities. Perhaps the real anger over the OKC bombing is that the American people thought that we had managed to skip out on the bill for our government's actions at Waco, only to be tracked down and made to pay at home. TruthMonger

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[ANNOUNCE] Phil Zimmermann on recent FUD and PGP 5.0 plans
by Dave Del Torto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A message from our Fearless Leader... dave ................................. cut here ................................. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Last month, Pretty Good Privacy Inc went through a reorganization in its top management. We were spending too much money, too fast. Tom Steding was replaced by Phil Dunkelberger as the president of PGP, and I handed over the chairman title to Jonathan Seybold, who had been, with me, the original cofounder of the company. Jonathan is devoting his time to the business side of things, while I am focussing my attention on my role as chief technology officer. I have seen some speculation in some usenet newsgroups that these changes were in some way connected with the fact that PGP was recently sued by RSA Data Security over some dispute regarding royalties for use of the RSA patent, which PGP holds a license to. Let me set the record straight on this. There are sound business reasons why this shuffling of top management occurred at PGP, and these reasons are known to all of our employees. The RSA lawsuit against PGP is absolutely not one of the reasons, not even remotely. I don't think shuffling top management is a likely reaction for any company to take in response to a lawsuit, even if the lawsuit had merit, which this one does not. We fully expect the RSA matter to be resolved in arbitration proceedings, in our favor. I know that it is common practice for some companies to issue statements to "spin" the story about certain events, sometimes at the expense of truth. This makes a lot of people understandably skeptical about such explanations. I do have responsibilities toward my company, but no one could get me to deny a truth about the reasons for the restructuring. The truth is, the restructuring had absolutely nothing at all to do with the RSA lawsuit. I would now like to announce that we will be releasing PGP 5.0 in mid-June. It's in beta release right now on our web page (www.pgp.com) In keeping with my own dedication to personal freedom and privacy, we will be releasing a freeware version for noncommercial use through MIT's web site (web.mit.edu/pgp) just like in the old days before the company was formed. And we do plan to publish the full PGP source code for Mac, Windows 95, and Linux. There are a lot of new exciting features, including automatic key lookups from remote key servers on the Internet, which will likely result in the rapid growth of a ready-made nationwide PGP public-key infrastructure, on an unprecedented scale. We are also encouraging the migration to new public key algorithms in addition to RSA, namely the NIST Digital Signature Standard (DSS), as well as Diffie-Hellman (Elgamal) keys. We expect most of the new users to be using these new algorithms instead of RSA, in part because they offer new features, better performance, and better security for the same key sizes. I hope that you will all join me in this opportunity to move to these new algorithms, allowing everyone to finally enjoy the use of public key cryptography without the encumberances of patents. Philip Zimmermann Chief Technology Officer, PGP Inc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM5WoZWV5hLjHqWbdAQGaxgP/UM+i7Pz38x68zdWVOsTrQVepa+0FUndC NkvTi5iMTC9up7HJgleXMWuAB00qVB8XlC1/6oSx4Ot+gTecu0wXgNG/l8LXFBAo YYxlPhR497fvKfnWXATkJ3jQJAQbACHXzh7Wycc1MGq+46o6+CkECrUvUs8//KQT toJMdfVJEVA= =ywNo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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