December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: alt.cypherpunks
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jeremiah A Blatz <jer+(a)andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > alt.cypherpunks has been newgroup'ed, and I belive rm'grouped. Smart, > consiencous newsadmins probably did not honor the rmgroup, as > alt.cypherpunks should be acceptable, but most newsadmins are too > overworked to actually look at most of the crap that comes through. > For example, it hasn't received any messages on my news server, > probably because the one upstream removed it. Seems I'm getting alt.cypherpunks.announce (empty), but not alt.cypherpunks or any of the others that show up as newgroup'ed on Deja News... Are they alive and well elsewhere? Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Re: (2) More on Digital Postage
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:10 PM +0000 2/13/97, Attila T. Hun wrote: >+Attila is free to hire agents to screen his mail so he does not receive >+spam. He is not free, in a free society, to force such screeners upon >+me. > > very true. if you if define that your freedom includes the free > abuse of your freedoms by others. freedom is a two way street; > freedom in my book says that I can do anything I wish which does > not infringe on the rights of others. now, that implies that I can As this relates to "unwanted mail," I think calling this an "abuse of freedom by others" is misleading, and a slippery slope. On this same slippery slope lies the claims by some women, as an example, that images in Playboy "abuse their freedoms" (I'd've thought a different kind of abuse is involved, but I won't get into that here). Is unwanted physical mail also an abuse of freedom? How about unwanted personal letters? How about unwanted conversations in a Cypherpunks meeting? The answer to all of these issues lies outside the State. Invoking the power of Men with Guns to stop these "unwanted contacts" is simply wrong. Attila seems to be arguing that the State has a legitimate role in censoring certain contacts, whereas I argue that technology and contracting can almost always do a better job. I repeat: Attila is free to hire a censor, or nanny, or personal secretary to screen his calls, to sift through his mail to pass on only the most relevant stuff, and so on. Many celebrities and busy people do just this. (In the CompuServe case which triggered this thread, CompuServe certainly could have offered a "filtering" service to its members. This would be unexceptionable, and the right way to go, contractually and technologically.) Attila is not free, in a free society, to claim (*) that his freedoms are being infringed when people send him mail he is not interested in. (* He can certainly _claim_ it, but he cannot bring the State in to enforce his dubious claim about his freedom being infringed.) By the way, I think the "junk fax" and "junk phone call" laws are clearcut violations of the First Amendment. I understand why the herd _wants_ these laws, as it reduces the costs involved in replacing fax paper, running to the telephone only to find someone trying to sell something, etc., but it is quite clearly a prior restraint on speech, however well-intentioned. (There are technological solutions to these problems as well. The laws shield people from having to deal with these solutions, however.) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Dale disses gays.
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:35:01 -0800 From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> :Another funny thing - I'm an ordinary English/Welsh/Dutch White :person, Makes me hate myself. :and I've had plenty of White friends, and an equal percentage of :Black friends given the number of Black people I've known, but I've :never had a friend who was gay or lesbian, as far as I know, and I :think I could tell. How, Dale, by the smell? :I can only guess that the gays are very clique-ish, :or their brains are wired differently than non-gays. Perhaps the hard wiring makes it possible for them to avoid bigots like you. Sign him up to pass out the pink triangles. What a fraud! Still love you, big guy. Can you tell?

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Re: alt.cypherpunks
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jeremiah A Blatz <jer+(a)andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > alt.cypherpunks has been newgroup'ed, and I belive rm'grouped. Smart, > consiencous newsadmins probably did not honor the rmgroup, as > alt.cypherpunks should be acceptable, but most newsadmins are too > overworked to actually look at most of the crap that comes through. > For example, it hasn't received any messages on my news server, > probably because the one upstream removed it. Seems I'm getting alt.cypherpunks.announce (empty), but not alt.cypherpunks or any of the others that show up as newgroup'ed on Deja News... Are they alive and well elsewhere? Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Re: Dale disses gays.
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: > :and I've had plenty of White friends, and an equal percentage of :Black friends given the number of Black people I've known, but I've :never had a friend who was gay or lesbian, as far as I know, and I :think I could tell. > How, Dale, by the smell? I worked for a gay man in Beverly Hills and Encino for 3 years. I learned a lot about "signals" during that time. Bigot? I don't think so. One of my favorite customers, a nice lady who is Jewish (and who grew up where I did) told me she could spot 'em every time. > Sign him up to pass out the pink triangles. > What a fraud! Still love you, big guy. Can you tell? I'll bet you do! Er, I wouldn't bend over in front of you, that is. No offense, ya' know. BTW, my browser has a problem with your lines that have no c/r after every 70 or so characters. Other people will undoubtedly confirm that.

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Re: N.Y. judge rules for Planned Parenthood in web site case
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > A federal judge has temporarily stopped an abortion foe from > identifying his web site as belonging to Planned Parenthood and > selling an anti-abortion book from that home page. The temporary > restraining order, issued Wednesday, stops Richard Bucci from > identifying his home page as "Planned Parenthood's Home Page" and > using "plannedparenthood.com" as a domain name. Planned Parenthood, > which has its own web site, sued Bucci for trademark infringement. The > next hearing is slated for Feb. 20. For the full text story, see > http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=1426121-b7e "Planned Parenthood". Has a nice ring to it, eh? Let's look at some history: Founded by Margaret Sanger (1879-1966). Publisher of Birth Control Review. Associate Henry Laughlin: Honorary MD from Heidelburg U (1936). Author of Hitler's Model Eugenical Sterilization Law. Author of "Mandatory Sterilization In The USA", published in Birth Control Review. Associate Dr. Ernst Rudin: Director of Nazi Medical Experimentation program; commissioned to write for Birth Control Review. Associate Dr. Lothrop Stoddard: Director, American Birth Control League. Vocal supporter of Nazis and their sterilization programs. Author of "The Rising Tide Of Color Against White Supremacy". Quote: "More children from the fit - less from the unfit. That is the chief aim of birth control." -from Birth Control Review circa 1921. Margaret described her plan to depopulate the Blacks in the U.S. in a private letter to Clarence Gamble, dated Oct. 19, 1939. Her plan was to hire Black ministers with engaging personalities to travel thru the South to propagandize for birth control. It was believed that the best access to the Blacks was thru religion, and Sanger's steering committee wanted to create the illusion that these projects were under the control of the local Black leaders. For those of you who don't know, there were a lot of successful sterilizations in the U.S. when these programs were in effect during Sanger's earlier years. Persons wishing to research this should also check Shockley, the transistor guy who won a Nobel prize for something or other, and his friendship with George Bush et al. I believe it was A&E channel that ran the Sanger TV-movie disinfor- mation/propaganda a year or so ago. You know, the channel that has been described by critics as "All Hitler, all the time".

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Good Bye Cypherpunks!
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Friends, I have been on the list since May 1993, after reading about it in Wired 1.2. The list impacted my life more than any other medium. I knew little about cryptography when I joined the list. Now I work in the field. Some of the subscribers on this list have become my personal friends. Many have become co-workers or clients. The list has been good to me. But it is time to move on. Cypherpunks(a)toad.com has come to an end, and perhaps it was time. See you all on USENET mailto:cypherpunks@toad.com is dead. Long live news:alt.cypherpunks Umsuscrive message follows ;-) -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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More on digital postage
by John C. Randolph 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim may says: >By the way, I think the "junk fax" and "junk phone call" laws are clearcut >violations of the First Amendment. I understand why the herd _wants_ these >laws, as it reduces the costs involved in replacing fax paper, running to >the telephone only to find someone trying to sell something, etc., but it >is quite clearly a prior restraint on speech, however well-intentioned. I have to disagree here. The junk fax law is a restraint on unauthorised use of property, i.e. *my* fax machine, *my* phone, etc. That tort of unauthorised use of property applies, whether someone's sending me a fax to sell me spamming software, or whether it's some kid ringing my doorbell and running away. It's not the speech that I'm fighting, it's the misuse of my property. Freedom of speech does not confer a right to use other people's property. -jcr

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Re: Cypherpunks-announce? Do we need to recreate this?
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:51 AM 2/13/97 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >So far it's carried 1-2 announcements per month. >Should we create it as a mailing list, moderated or unmoderated, >or as a newsgroup? (It's been a moderated mailing list, run by John and >Hugh.) Deja-News now carries both alt.cypherpunks and alt.cypherpunks.announce. There was never a problem with cypherpunks-announce. Whoever volunteered to run the monthly meeting just emailed to Hugh, who posted the announcement. I would suggest to avoid fixing what isn't broken and make alt.cypherpunks.announce a moderated list with Hugh and Eric as the moderators. The cypherpunks* lists on toad.com could be set up as mail-to-news gateways (I volunteer to do so if needed) and all current subscribers unsubscribed after a suitable warning outlining ways of accessing USENET. If the list owner should so desire, I volunteer to write the tutorial. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: (2) More on Digital Postage
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May allegedly said: > [...] > By the way, I think the "junk fax" and "junk phone call" laws are clearcut > violations of the First Amendment. You are entitled to any tortuous idiosyncratic opinion you care to hold, of course. > I understand why the herd _wants_ these > laws, as it reduces the costs involved in replacing fax paper, running to > the telephone only to find someone trying to sell something, etc., but it > is quite clearly a prior restraint on speech, however well-intentioned. "Prior restraint" is not a magic key. Not all speech is protected. Of course, once again, you are free to disagree with the massive body of legal precedent on this issue. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com,kc@llnl.gov the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: 5A 16 DA 04 31 33 40 1E 87 DA 29 02 97 A3 46 2F

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