December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cuba and AP
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If people want to see the effect of an AP society have a look at Cuba. Under the Batista regime $50 was sufficient to have someone killed. There was anarchy, the police were corrupt, the mafia ran most of the few parts of the country that worked - even they found the lack of order a problem. The result was Fidel Castro. The Batista regime could neither reform nor survive. Any society that was threatened by AP would likewise collapse. It is important to distinguish liberty and libertines. The libertine recognises no check on individual rights, even when they affect the rights of others. The inevitable result of libertinage is authoritarianism. Phill

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Bell case and the liability of information...
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: pswire(a)pop.service.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:54:35 -0400 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications <CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> From: Peter Swire <swire.1(a)OSU.EDU> Subject: Re: America Online and liability for dissemination of informatio To: CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 09:23 PM 4/6/97 -0700, Bob Stock wrote: >Someone said: >>>Look at it this way: what if this anonymous one had gone to his >>>local library, went through the newspapers and collected >>>classified ad forms. Then sent them all in, publishing >>>classifieds which said the same thing in 20 newspapers across the >>>country. > >>the newspapers which published those ads would have >>potential liability if they were negligent in their fact checking >>before publishing them. > >Newspapers are legally required to check the facts of classified ads >before publishing them in order to escape any potential libel >liability? You can't be serious. Sorry. Check out the cases that Soldier of Fortune magazine lost for failing to check its classified ads. The cases involved "gun for hire" classifieds, someone got shot, and the estate was permitted to sue the magazine. The tort analysis used a Hand test, in which the cost of screening the classified (on its face an invitation to commit a deadly crime) was found to be less than the cost to society of allowing the magazine to run such ads. The facts of SOF are very special, but they show at least one scenario where courts have found liability for running a classified ad. Regards, Peter Prof. Peter Swire Ohio State University College of Law e-mail: swire.1(a)osu.edu web: http://www.osu.edu/units/law/swire.htm (in early stages of construction) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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(Fwd) Re: AP Revisited
by Charles Anthony 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 11:48:48 -0400 From: Hallam-Baker <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> To: Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com>, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: AP Revisited I think its quite wrong to see Clinton as someone who believes in the authoritarian position, the real problem is he cuts his cloth according to the popular whim. Think again. Clinton and his administration are rabid when it comes to cryopto policy and the expansion of the FBI and others ability to pry into the lives of innocent citizens.. The draft of the crypto legislation is a good example of how, when given an opportunity to act out of the general public's sight and grasp, he's in there seeking even more ridiculously easy ways to get into everybodies business. I mean the current draft requires only a govt request in order to obtain access to your email. NOT a court ordered/appproved warrant- They may as well ask to be allowed to open and read every letter and pkg at the post office too.(and if this draft becomes law they probably will) All of these 'new' and neccessary' intrusions are Clinton proposals, not hold overs from some other admininstration. If he were opposed in principle he could certainly 'cut his cloth' along less authoratarian lines, following the lead of many of the administrations own committee reports that have come out against key escrow plans, but he will not budge on the issue. In fact, each time it is put back out there it gets worse. Clinton's ability to coopt left energy and appear to be less than he is is- earning appologistic comments like the one above- is what is really frightening. When it comes to US citizens civil liberties, Clinton is more dangerous than Reagan and Bush put together and I wouldn't call either of them friends of the people. Since it has been thrown around so much, remember that Hitler was a most powerful speaker, who connected well with the masses, couching nazi policy in the terms that gave the people what they wanted to hear. They too thought he was a most sincere and earnest fellow, with only the good of the country at heart. A 'Nixon' would never get away with this sort of proposal- but a telegenic, non-enhaling, sax playing, mcdonalds eating, aw shucks, (they lay it on thick you think?) well meaning bubba? --C ********************************************************************** Charles Anthony canthony(a)info-nation.com http://www.info-nation.com -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3a mQBtAzM63W8AAAEDAMRi15+AIXC0j2R7IrdeNhM7AQXPGAYAd2mCNhKrQa09fICZ 4jEpTd0biV+3nMAL6/6pWUm1AmFPS/FngecmXkrmMPlbgv3O0dapbJ2/FQf3XUtH Z5AEOdKL9xK5Ml7dCQAFE7QIY2FudGhvbnmJAHUDBRAzOt1wi/cSuTJe3QkBAemw AwC1DGxodXVPkA1D6uLdqFvP5H3/98i/gM2x9IvvfZscWszwrJuOhkYyd71TF7K5 gy55OqPp+Rf77On0XhmHoi98Y4HOSTHYPhN9o9zQQ+pn/4HmxQ4Tbtih2sCDNvmG b2g= =0pHR -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: AP Revisited
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:48 AM 4/7/97 -0400, Hallam-Baker wrote: >I seem to recall that the War on Drugs was a Bush proposal originally. >Dole supported it and as with the CDA I would not expect a single >member of congress to stand up against charges of "drug dealers friend". The War on Drugs was first declared by President Nixon. It has been a failure ever since. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Secret Squirrel wrote: > > If the FBI story is not yet another hoax, I think that it is > a good diea to call jimbell and maybe donate him some $$ for > lawyers or something like that. I'm not sure sending him money for lawyers would be most helpful. I was thinking another type of profession entirely. Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that freedom of speech is the issue. Jim appears to be in trouble for reasons not associated with his AP rants. The AP manifesto has made it worse and attracted the opinion of the press but it does not appear to have caused his trouble, merely affected the way he was dealt with. AP probably caused there to be 20 heavilly armed cops rather than two unarmed ones. It probably meant that casual comments were taken rather more seriously than otherwise. Bell was always much more wacko off list than on. Phill

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Tim C[rook] May's babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. \\\\\|///// \\\\|//// < * | * > | * | \( . )/ \___/

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Re: Cuba and AP
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hallam-Baker, counting on cypherpunks readers to be unwitting victims of ten second sound-byte mentality, wrote: > > If people want to see the effect of an AP society have a look at Cuba. > Under the Batista regime $50 was sufficient to have someone killed. > There was anarchy, the police were corrupt, the mafia ran most of the > few parts of the country that worked - even they found the lack of order > a problem. > > The result was Fidel Castro. The Batista regime could neither reform nor > survive. Any society that was threatened by AP would likewise collapse. So Hallam-Baker recognizes the AP system as a valid way to bring about the collapse of unpopular, corrupt dictatorships. > It is important to distinguish liberty and libertines. The libertine > recognises no check on individual rights, even when they affect the > rights of others. The inevitable result of libertinage is > authoritarianism. The result of men living together on the face of the earth leads to the inevitable result of authoritarianism. Systems such as "Assassination Politics" can aide in fighting against unbearable corruption of power by lowering the cost of assassination and thus raising the cost of corruption. The stench in Cuba was so bad under the U.S. backed Batista regime that Guerva and Castro were a breath of fresh air for the majority of Cuban people. Despite years of harassment, invasion, and economic attack on Cuba by the shameless 'free' countries <yuk,yuk> of the world, Castro is still a better option for the Cuban people than other options. When this ceases to be the case, then another variation of the Cuban AP system will arise (perhaps Bell's?), and we will see the rise of a new Cuban government. Despite the grand support the IRS is receiving from the government- owned members of the cypherpunks list, it can hardly be argued that the U.S. government has a problem with "Assassination Politics," since they have availed themselves of it in the past, but only with the power of AP being in the hands of the citizens instead of their own ruling hands. TruthMonger (#7)

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hallam-Baker wrote: > Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that > freedom of speech is the issue. > The AP manifesto...merely affected the way he was dealt with. Hallam-Baker is apparently incapable of understanding his own trail of logic. He tells us that freedom of speech is not the issue, and then proceeds to tell us that Jim Bell was dealt with differently than others for exercising his freedom of speech. Now perhaps he can explain to us how race issues are not involved when cops beat the living crap out of niggers when arresting them for traffic violations. ("Until the nigger in intensive care 'gets charged with something' I don't see that race is an issue.") -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Helping Prof. Jim Bell
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Although I don't disagree with Phill in general, I note from the IRS agent's affidavit that the reason given for searching his house was they thought he was gonna do the AP thing after all. So AP does appear to have caused if not all his troubles, at least the ones from last week. -Declan At 3:17 PM -0400 4/7/97, Hallam-Baker wrote: > >Until Jim actually gets charged for something I don't see that >freedom of speech is the issue. Jim appears to be in trouble >for reasons not associated with his AP rants. The AP manifesto >has made it worse and attracted the opinion of the press but it >does not appear to have caused his trouble, merely affected the >way he was dealt with. > >AP probably caused there to be 20 heavilly armed cops rather than >two unarmed ones. It probably meant that casual comments were >taken rather more seriously than otherwise. Bell was always much >more wacko off list than on. > > > Phill ------------------------- Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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New Paper by Ron Rivest
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> To: "Micropay (E-mail)" <micropay(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: New Paper by Ron Rivest Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:18:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-micropay(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: micropay(a)ai.mit.edu Ron Rivest has just added a new paper on Micropayments to his Web site: Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (rump session talk given at the Financial Cryptography '97 conference) http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/publications.html Its in Postscript, perhaps when the HTML Math proposal finally appears... (Three years and counting so far). Phill Phillip M. Hallam-Baker Visitng Scientist MIT Laboratory for Artificial Intelligence. hallam(a)ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/hallam/hallam.html --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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