December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Trolling with Dale (a bite)
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> Subject: Re: overview.htm (fwd) Dale Thorn hopelessly wrote: >Let's be realistic about how AIDS is acquired. Yes, Dale, let's >AIDS, OTOH, is likely to be a development from years of 1) Contact >with germs, chemicals, food additives, antibiotics other medical >treatments, sexual contact, etc. and 2) Immune-suppressing activities >such as lack of sleep and exercise, anxiety and stress, and so on. Sounds reasonable to me, especially contact with germs (Who says "germs?"), and sexual contact. Take it on the road, Dale. >It seems to me that "proof" of someone acquiring AIDS from one stab >with a contaminated needle is a very nebulous thing. As far as nurses >go, the contact I've had with many of them tells me they are also >(on average) drug users extraordinaire. Yes, nebulous! Extraordinaire (on average), certainly. At the risk of being offed by the moderator, I do believe that Dale is masturbating when he writes nonsense such as this. Perhaps "masterbating" as opposed to j.o. will pass muster. Dale makes an excellent case for having a moderated list right here. What do his nutball beyond-the-fringe remarks have to do with crypto, privacy, security? Cripes, in the old days even an _accurate_ off-list remark would open a blast furnace of condemnation, a la Jim B. If the list won't moderate itself to "guide" the Dale's, it DESERVES to be moderated. He's gotta be trolling to keep it hard. (Dangerous ground here!) Read "erect" for "keep it hard." I suggest even (even!) "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" would disavow this pseudo-scientific nonsense regardless of his stated feelings toward homosexuals which I do not share but, nevertheless, believe may be aired. Step up, Doc. P.S. Does tripe such as Dale's latest make the mod list?

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Phillip M. Hallam-Baker wrote: > Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> wrote in article > > blanc wrote: > > > From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis This [below] is one of the most remarkable posts I've ever seen.... > > > However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba > > > should not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders > > > their civilians in retaliation for something their governments > > > supposedly did. > > > The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things, > > > including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from > > > other governments. If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they > > > have the resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form > > > alliances, take their chances and retaliate, etc. > > I wish this were true, at least of nations which would be friendly > > to someone like me (white, Western, etc.). A bully on a school > > playground can always be knocked down, no matter how big or how > > vicious he is. Sadly, the U.S. bully cannot be knocked down. Bad > > enough you get nuclear, chemical, and/or biological stuff waved at > > you - if you get into a hot war like Desert Storm, your country is > > carpet-bombed with fleets of B-52's until it is thoroughly debilitated. > Actually the US is being remarkably ineffective in keeping > Cuba etc off the Net. If you don't believe me just try > the cuban home page. We had a Web server running in Sarajevo > during the siege back in '93. There is no way that the US govt. > can hope to control the Internet any more than it can control the > phone system. What is astonishing is that the Cuban authorities are > so keen to import a technology that breaks down their propaganda. This *is* amazing. The cuban govt. is *eager* (keen) to subvert their own propaganda. > The Cold War was not won by the arms race, it was won in > Eastern Europe which was never a major participant. The main > instrument that won it was West German TV which broadcast > pictures of supermarkets with full shelves into the homes > of East Germans every night. The viewers could see that it > was not mere propaganda and their relatives confirmed the > fact. As a result the East German guards on the Berlin wall > simply decided to leave their posts one night. That's it? The system collapsed because the guards left their posts? And no mutiny charges? Incredible. > The East Germans couldn't stop the TV signals either. When > Dresden started to become a ghost town because people wanted > to move to a town which could recieve the broadcasts the > East Germans ended up installing their own relay to keep > the locals happy. People left their own home towns just so they could watch TV? I know a lot of Americans who'd like to leave their towns to get away from TV, permanently.

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Re: Best Computer School?
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Erp <erp(a)digiforest.com> wrote in article <5cjlg0$2ij(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > > > > On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, SpyKing wrote: > > > This is a little off topic but maybe someone can help. I've got a teenage > > son (HS sophomore) who's interested in majoring in computer science in > > college with a particular interest in cryptography. He's leaning toward MIT. > > Any suggestions from list members as to colleges to investigate? > > Well in reference to MIT.. I hope he has a 4.0 in highschool, is an > allsport, has a 1600 on his SAT's, and a prefect on his ACT.. Just to > even think about going there.. Let alone to include how well he'll have > to do on his interviews etc.. Also you may wish to have him look again at > what he wants to be before he goes to some major college such as MIT, > because tuition at MIT costs approx 100,000$/4 years. Actually MIT does not take notice of SATs, GSATs and other IQ nonsense. Basically the tests are meaningless at the upper end of the scale which is where most MIT students would score and a low score does not in itself demonstate stupidity. If he can get in then its difficult to imagine a better school for crypto in the US. There is a finacial support program and admission is "needs blind" so that grants are matched according to need. > I know pretty well positive that > MIT is excellent, but when you get down to the basics MIT is more of an > engineering school than a science/philosophical school which Computer > Sciences falls under.. Another good school from what I've heard is UCLA.. > then again you can discredit anything I've said, because I'm still a > HighSchool senior myself and have been looking into Computer Criminology > for the last three years, and I'm positive it is what i want so *shrug*.. Actually there is a reasonable school for philosophy just up the road but its not so good for computer science (it did produce Bill Gates.) The AI lab does have a number of people who lean quite heavilly to the philosophy side. Phill

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Sovreign Right of Lawful Access
by Somebody 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This morning at the RSA keynote, David Aaron, the US Crypto ambassador quoted the "Sovreign Right of Lawful Access" as something that goverments were determined to preserve.

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.hlp creation
by Neil Rogers 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Howdi all, how are you, Can someone please help me, Can someone create a Windows 3.1 .hlp file fro me, when opened has a link to FILE MANAGER - U:\W31\winfile.exe Please, I have tried but can't do one, I would be really gratefull if someone could help! Thanks in advance, Neil ..............

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Re: GSM crypto upgrade? (was Re: Newt's phone calls)
by Eric Blossom 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> It is not clear you need signatures in the secure phone case. Eric >> Blossom's 3DES uses straight DH for key exchange with verbal verification >> that both ends are using the same key. > >How does Eric's box display the negotiated key to the user? (I don't >recall the pair I saw having displays). Latest versions have an LCD display that reports the type of crypto being used (3DES), as well as 24 bits worth of SHA-1 of the public exponentials exchanged. Alice sends g^x mod p, Bob sends g^y mod p. Let m = min(g^x mod p, g^y mod p) and n = max(g^x mod p, g^y mod p). compute v = SHA (concat (OCTET_REP (m), OCTET_REP (n))). Display the high 24 bits of v. >Also I thought it would be kind of cute if there were some way for >phones to exchange their signature keys `face to face' as well. Currently, absent some kind of widely deployed public key infrastructure, there are no signature keys used. This also means that the units do *not* contain any long term secrets, just the session key which is destroyed at the end of the call. Eric

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Where's reference? (was:RE: [DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7)
by Mullen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>---------- >>From: Phil Karn[SMTP:karn@qualcomm.com] >>>If past cryptographic software is any indication, the DES Cracker >>>will be available from an overseas ftp site within hours of release in >>>the US. >> >>And lacking that, the author can always print it out on paper and >>physically mail it out of the country; this is specifically allowed by >>the new Commerce rules as I understand them. And who's to say that the >>overseas FTP copies weren't scanned from such a paper copy? :-) >> >>Phil > Where can I get a reference to this? I thought you weren't supposed to transmit cryptographic code out of the U.S. under any means, including print... >(???) > >~ Patrick >

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > The exercise reveals to me that only by ignoring the first paragraph > > of your example, the part that reads "Imagine if you will a list, > > the original purpose of which was to act as a free and open forum > > for discussion of cryptography and related issues." can you make > > a claim of content based censorship. The purpose of this list was Maybe this was misleading, that was indeed a purpose of the list but it was also supposed to be a free and anarchic list where people were not prevented from posting whatever they want. Even if it were the case that we accepted content based censorship that is no defence of the obvious class system that is in place whereby certain posters are automatically sent straight to the moderated list and others are censored regardless of the content of their posts. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: Best Computer School?
by Erp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 28 Jan 1997, Derek Atkins wrote: > Erp <erp(a)digiforest.com> writes: > > > On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, SpyKing wrote: > > > This is really exagerating. You do not need a 4.0, 1600, etc. to be > admitted to MIT. Sure, you need good grades, but a 3.6 average and > 1350-1400 SAT scores is perfectly adequate to be admitted to MIT. You > can think of being admitted with even lower scores, if you stand out > in some way. MIT admissions looks for well-rounded students. You're > much better off being a writer/artist/musician than being on the > science or math teams. > Hmm.... Then a have a lieing blah blah blah of a counselor >) hehe I applied for MIT, and even had an interview.. Then dropped my application after getting chewed out by my counselor, and having had her refuse to fill out anything on my second part of the application that said specifically "COUNSELOR ONLY" went to the principal and he refused.. Filled it out myself, and since it didn't have the counselors signature ... I dropped it aka they dropped me but its easier to say it hteo ther way around. And yes I understand the well-rounded thing.. But then again you hav eto consider that the average student at MIT has applied at least two times. I know that one for a fact from some program or something I read that MIT puts out. > > what he wants to be before he goes to some major college such as MIT, > > because tuition at MIT costs approx 100,000$/4 years. Personally that is > > a hell of a lot, but then again *shrug*... I recommend going to a local > > It may be alot, but then again MIT is one of the best schools in the > world (I'm not going to be egotistical enough to say it *is* the best, > even tho Consumer Reports rated it such for the last N years). True, it is one of the best, can't argue against that.. But there are others that are better in certain areas.. from my knowledge MIT expresses more in its engineering departments than anything else though.. Although I do know a very philosophical physics professor there so *shrug*.. maybe I'll apply again some day.. And yes all the rest of my requirements wher ehigh.. I am a swimteam captain, first trombone in my school, for marching jazz pep and symphonic bands.. I'm also the lead french horn.. Then I have the little side things such as Chess team captain.. and have tha precious 3.6 GPA the only proglem with it is I ahve one teacher that gave me a D in my freshman year, so I can't get into honor society .. go figure... But hey such is life.. I'm planning on reapplying after I get into college and raise myself back to a 4 point so who knows what will happen.. > > This is untrue. The computer science department at MIT is really > good. As are the sciences, and even business! The MIT Sloan School > (Management and Economics) was rated #1 last year. The EECS > department (EE and CS are together) is top notch, too. Really good yes.. Not necessarily the best though.. Check everywhere.. each aspect of every college may have one thing that he is specifically interested in that would be better than going to MIT or some other such place3... > > Ciro Maria <cmaria(a)stevens-tech.edu> writes: > > > Yeah Stevens Institute in Hoboken. Its pretty good I got there. Also > > Caltech is good, I don't really know which else. > > When I looked at Caltech, their Engineering (and computer science) > really lacked. They were excellent for the Sciences (Math, Physics, > Chemistry, etc.) but their engineering school wasn't as good as others > I was looking at (both EE and CS). Things may have changed in the > last 8 years, however. *nod* I do agree with that... THey are pretty much the same now.. > > > Spyking, my advise to you: Look around at many schools. Go visit > them. Talk to the students there. Talk to the professors. Talk to > graduates. The more information you and your son have, the better > decisions you and he can make. > > Personally, I loved MIT -- it was the right place for me. It isn't > the right place for everyone. Make sure it is the right place for > your son before he applies. For what it's worth, I wanted to go to > MIT my sophomore year in high school, too ;) I havet o ask, did you make it in on your first apply to it? and please forgive the mistypes in this.. I'm really lagged for some reason.. And well, It takes forever to go back when it is lagged this bd, so I ahven't can back and changed things automatically like I usually do... > Thanks, Erp

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: > The list has been disentigrating for some time since the disgusting > incident when Dimitri was forcibly unsubscribed from the list. I'm curious about the gratuitous use of the word "forcibly" by Paul. Does this mean Gilmore took a fire axe to the computer or something? Dimitri was unsubscribed. It was done more or less against his will. ("More or less" because he in effect said to John, "bet you can't stop me.") What does "forcibly" add to this discussion besides melodrama? No force was required. John had the right and ability to pull the plug on Dimitri. "No animals were harmed in the making of this film." "Force," my ass. > have also been a number of postings from members of the list claiming > to understand anarchism who support censorship to "protect new > members of the list". There are various definitions of "censorship" and various flavors of anarchism. I'm a market anarchist, Paul is not. Paul claims to believe that any form of moderation is censorship. I think that enforcing standards of decorum on a private, voluntary list are not censorship. Reasonable minds may differ. I acknowledge that Paul's interpretations are not without some justification. (I just think they are incorrect in the instant case.) Paul, on the other hand, seems to be a True Believer. He brooks no view other than his own. (Curiously hypocritical under the circumstrances.) > So, there would be no intellectual dishonesty in a country claiming > to be a free and open society "trying out" fascism for a month or > two? - After all it`s a private country just as this is a private > list.... Paul's sophistry is showing. Nation-states are entities that exercise a monopoly on the use of force (real force, Paul) within (and often without) their boundries. Mail lists are far more like private homes, businesses or clubs. When you are a guest there, you are subject to their rules of behavior. > There is a clear trend easily observable on the list whereby certain > members postings are censored when their content is of a standard > that, if the moderation were objective and based on content alone, > would warrant their being sent to the censored list. Several substantive examples, please. True, nothing Bill Stewart has posted has been sent to CP-Flames. One guess why. Numerous posts by Dimitri have been posted to CP-Moderated, but many more have not made the cut. There are much more obvious reasons for this than Paul's biased analysis. > I can tell you one other thing for sure, even if the moderation > "experiment" were to end in a month as a last ditch attempt by John > Gilmore and Sandy Sandfort to recover some of their lost credibility > it would be a vain and entirely unsuccesful attempt. YMMV. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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