December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: David Kahn advocates GAK
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- It might also be that David's year long sabatical at NSA's crypto museum which recently ended put him in touch with people who believe in GAK. I found it interesting that he noted the argument that each additional day of government access is a good thing. This is the kind of belief we know that NSA holds -- a.k.a. "not on my watch" -- but I haven't seen it publicly admitted before. - Carl -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuZ35lQXJENzYr45AQEcfwQAqMftG0DXn1nr6faA6IHeAtqSXYanwnZb DiwqppU4nJqPtIvtFw8eOVVwyYCzIv046dFtwR2mk8HeL1v8I3R2sWm7waknFjlm TM84+vLamlVnBNPUAXRYOrFiEhPQm/iitR4GVrcga9mHJ+vrI38XQGzi0lxdg310 pWjq5Fxahag= =xhF7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme(a)acm.org http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | | PGP 2.6.2: 61 E2 DE 7F CB 9D 79 84 E9 C8 04 8B A6 32 21 A2 | +-Officer, officer, arrest that man. He's whistling a dirty song.--+

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Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sprach The Thorn: > Jane Jefferson wrote: > Jane is showing signs of independent thought. Tsk tsk. > > fail, countries would instantly be absorbed by other countries, many > > relationships based on love and trust would be destroyed. > > And during that time, the deadliest person alive - the toughest and > > the meanest, and the most effective in the face of all the chaos, would > > not be the person who was capable of preserving their privacy. Rather, > > it would be the one who was capable of surviving in it's complete absence. > BTW, the suicide rate would not go ballistic, since the suicide rate No, but I bet the murder rate would.

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Re: Thoughts re moderation, filtering, and name changes
by hjk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Dale Thorn wrote: > hjk wrote: .... > > I wonder who is so brainless, not to understand what's going on. > > Do you really think the subscribers are pure Idiots? > > Well, Heinz. You live in a country full of people, ordinary people, > variously called the hoi polloi, the sheeple, the unwashed masses, > and other interesting names. > ... > Now whatever you think of your fellow citizens, or even those of the > USA (to name an example), I'm sure is OK on whatever basis you apply > your judgement. But I guarantee you that the people on the cypherpunks > list are no more or less intelligent than the people who vegetate in > front of their TV sets every day, right there where you live, in all > probability. If you believe that your fellow citizens vote intelligently, > then I respond that cypherpunks vote intelligently. What do you think? > Well, I thought cypherpunks claim to be elite. Heinz-Juergen Keller hjk(a)ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor.
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes: > Mission: > > Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think > this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? The Web > was conceived as offering despots and dictators a choice > between remaining in the dark ages and allowing freedom of > speech. Blocking and filtering schemes threaten this ideal. > > > Requirements: > > A scheme which makes blocking of individual IP addresses > impractical. <snip> > Considerations: > [i.e. areas needing brainstorming] > > 1) Copyright. Clearly copyright holders such as CNN etc would > need to be involved. Although proxies have long been a part of > the Web and the scheme does not threaten their interests it would > be as well to get them on board at an early stage. I believe that the new copyright regs explicitly allow web surfing. Copyright should not be an issue, I think. IANAL. > 2) How can one prevent the proxies themselves being blocked? Some > ideas that come to mind: > > 2a) Only issue new sites gradually so that blocking requires > continuous updates. > > 2b) Use DHCP to change network addresses regularly. > > 2c) Some crypto hack I can't quite work out (hence the post to > cypher punks). I can phrase the challenge more compactly though. > We have two sets of opposed groups A and M. The A group wish to > establish a continued conversation with groups B and C. M is > willing to permit communication with group B but not C. Whenever > M discovers that a member of group B is willing to act on behalf > of group C, M transfers that member to the C group. > > The problem is to keep A's channels of communication open despite > the efforts of M for very large group sizes. > > I'm not sure if this is a pure crypto challenge or a game theory > problem. Secure connections from proxy to client would eliminate driftnet scanning. That's probably about all the crypto. One idea would to put /cgi-bin/redirect in all the distributions of apache, apache-SSL, etc. That way, anyone who cared at all about privacy or was clueless would have an anonymizer on their web server. People who really cared could run web spiders that looked for sites with the redirect, and have cgi-bins that returned a randomized list of 10 or so. They could periodically post the list to semi-relavent newsgroups. The idea here is to reduce the chance of a denial of service attack against the anonymizer pool. The points of attack that I can think of are: 1) Filter out out anonymized connections. Crypto helps solves this one. Of course, then the evil empire filters out crypto, but that's bad for business. 2) Make the list of anonymizers dissappear This is a bit easier for the bad guys. Stego could help solve the problem, especially if combined with crypto. (i.e stego the list, encrypted with a few key underground folks public keys, into a pic of the great wall of china or something. 3) Make it illegal to use anonymizers and enforec randomly. FUD. I dunno how to solve this one. Put anphetamines in the water supply? > Comments? If people are willing to work on this I can provide > some facilities and act as a media contact. Distribution wins. (BTW, look at www.anonymizer.com) Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMuZwuMkz/YzIV3P5AQEb5gL/aOgddVJ91jtZUPrDcsnqdhOFpKLx1IAH UMZi+HkdB+ZUsRhLxCSy0enpqxikwyFVOMINSr3uLRtYSIcuPK2JFdSACI79yISk 7oZWxwTO5TDMYtbBRAAZv/d9VyCT/EVE =OIEP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Manila says ID system not prelude to martial law (fwd)
by David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reuters sez: Message-ID: <Rphilippines-cardUR8Au_7JF(a)clari.net> MANILA, Jan 15 (Reuter) - Philippine President Fidel Ramos on Wednesday dismissed as baseless fears that his order creating a national identification system was a prelude to martial law. ``That is a wild opinion without any basis in fact,'' Ramos told his weekly news conference after Cardinal Jaime Sin, the outspoken Archbishop of Manila, accused him of being authoritarian. {We're talking, therefore it's no threat..} {Sin said it's immoral} {Opposition said could be used to monitor political activities, that it was reminiscent of Marcos.} Officials have said a computerised ID system whereby cards issued to citizens by state pension funds would carry reference numbers assigned to them for life would make it easier for people to transact business with the government and minimise fraud. ``That's all there is to it ... (its) very simple,'' Ramos said. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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Decision in Karn Case
by Dave Banisar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We just received this today. This is in part good news that the appeals court did not just affirm the lower court decision but on the other hand, it doesn't give much guidance to the court. A html version is up at: http://www.epic.org/crypto/export_controls/karn_decision_1_97.html Dave ----------------------------------------------------------- UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT No. 96-5121 Philip R. Karn, Jr. v. U.S. Department of State On Appeal from the United States District Court for the District of Columbia Before: Williams, Ginsburg, and Rogers, Circuit Judges January 21, 1997 JUDGMENT In light of the recent Executive Order transferring regulatory authority of non-military cryptographic computer source code to the Commerce Department, and the Commerce Department's promulgation of a new regulation under the authority of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, 50 U.S.C. secs. 1701 et seq., we remand this case to the district court to consider the reviewability of and, if appropriate, the merits of appellant's claim under the Administrative Procedure Act. Because "basic tenets of judicial restraint and separation of powers call upon [the court] first to consider alternative grounds for resolution" when the court is asked to answer a question involving the Constitution of the United States, Lamprecht v. FCC, 958 F.2d 382, 389-90 (D.C. Cir. 1992), we do not reach the constitutional issues raised by this appeal. The clerk is directed to withhold issuance of the mandate herein until seven days after disposition of any timely petition for rehearing. See D.C. Cir. Rule 41(a)(2). This instruction to the Clerk is without prejudice to the right of any party at any time to move for expedited issuance of the mandate for a good cause shown. Per Curiam FOR THE COURT: /s/ Mark J. Langer, Clerk ========================================================================= David Banisar (Banisar(a)epic.org) * 202-544-9240 (tel) Electronic Privacy Information Center * 202-547-5482 (fax) 666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301 * HTTP://www.epic.org Washington, DC 20003 PGP Key: http://www.epic.org/staff/banisar/key.html =========================================================================

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Manila says ID system not prelude to martial law (fwd)
by David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reuters sez: Message-ID: <Rphilippines-cardUR8Au_7JF(a)clari.net> MANILA, Jan 15 (Reuter) - Philippine President Fidel Ramos on Wednesday dismissed as baseless fears that his order creating a national identification system was a prelude to martial law. ``That is a wild opinion without any basis in fact,'' Ramos told his weekly news conference after Cardinal Jaime Sin, the outspoken Archbishop of Manila, accused him of being authoritarian. {We're talking, therefore it's no threat..} {Sin said it's immoral} {Opposition said could be used to monitor political activities, that it was reminiscent of Marcos.} Officials have said a computerised ID system whereby cards issued to citizens by state pension funds would carry reference numbers assigned to them for life would make it easier for people to transact business with the government and minimise fraud. ``That's all there is to it ... (its) very simple,'' Ramos said. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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Re: Newt's phone calls
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Hallam-baker said: > Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> wrote in article <5bp18k$1cc(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > > > GSM encrypts only the links to the station - the traffic goes in the > > clear through the station. Plus A5 (crypto algorithm used in GSM) is > > weak, 40 bits of effective key space. > > > > It could be worse to have poor crypto, than no crypto, > > I disagree for two reasons, first there is a big difference between having > poor locks and no locks. Most locks can be picked by an expert, they are > effective against many theifs however. > > Second if everyone in the world was using 40 bit email encryption it > would prevent most of the "promiscuous" interception of communications. Third (as Mr. Vulis <insult deleted> observed) the jump from using poor crypto to using good crypto is a lot shorter than not using crypto to using good crypto. Once people get it in there heads that crypto is good to use, then it is easier to convince them to use "unbreakable" crypto than to convince non-crypto-users.

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RE: David Kahn advocates GAK
by James A. Tunnicliffe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl' <WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com> writes: > In today's (22 Jan 97) Long Island, NY Newsday Viewpoints, p. A31: > "Let Feds Overheard Cellular-Phone Talk" > by David Kahn (an editor at Newsday and author of "The Codebreakers") > He intones the usual horseman: "...such criminals as terrorists, drug- > runners, kidnappers and child-pornographers are increasingly using > encryption to conceal their plans and activities, the FBI says." Lions and tigers and bears, oh MY! > He also mis-states opponenents of GAK positions, claimingthe > criticism is that "key escrow [at least he doesn't call it key > recovery] won't work all the time", ignoring anti-GAK mentions of > COINTELPRO, J.Edgar Stalin^H^H^H^H^H^HHoover, etc. etc. Actually, I thought he summed up the anti-GAK positions reasonably well, though he didn't elaborate on them. The "it may not work all the time" statement was actually an admission of the pro-GAK side. > And the usual nonsense about "every day that criminal messages can be > heard is a gain" w/out noting that anyone smart enough to use crypto > now will not use it if GAK is fully implemented. I found the logic questionable, but more disturbing was the fundamental position that "loss of privacy [...] is a price that must be paid to gain security". Benjamin Franklin's statement about security and freedom comes strongly to mind when I hear nonsense like this. He then cites the (in "our" view, useless and intrusive) hassles that airline passengers must endure in the name of "security" as justification for more of the same! Talk about a slippery slope! > Newsday is part of the LA Times Syndicate, so member papers may also > have the same viewpoint appearing in their pages within the next > couple of days. > Their website is http://www.newsday.com ... I don't know if the > viewpoint is on-line there. It is, at http://www.newsday.com/mainnews/rnmi0522.htm Pretty disappointing stuff, but then Mr. Kahn IS affiliated with the NSA these days, isn't he? Tunny ====================================================================== James A. Tunnicliffe | WWWeb: http://www.inference.com/~tunny Inference Corporation | PGP Fingerprint: CA 23 E2 F3 AC 2D 0C 77 tunny(a)Inference.com | 36 07 D9 33 3D 32 53 9C ====================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.0 Business Edition Comment: which I won in the PGP raffle at Cypherpunks 12/96... iQEVAgUBMuZ1UvAmQsmyRPddAQFO/gf+Ikw8GScPo/+lr00lKvTnF7dZdEYhE8GC bt7wu96a/4mE81261EwxqA8voI/y5T3RsUfZLeYsGX+wkuPyqK1QImO3A7O8PNnb AvFitSaNsrMqyKTa7mI63TrvoBDCqtN3vYdDeSl6ZPHJmhHO5MF6xVoA56yeF5xf h0ooejTgeYMOGMhf2faRCKU31AdFB+pjozxMo83X2ZrCzga8wiHeqlEEKWQnu1cJ 3jc+TVZnEI95idbQqeHvxh/BBRdprrPxBfncCb8wnXuLHxPmrsWGqfvMDpS06qhl ZWEFChYLDGwsMokvcY+ZOZ6x4jlwssFGDXpflcdjFnPBp3yJKjU7fA== =/siB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: David Kahn advocates GAK
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- It might also be that David's year long sabatical at NSA's crypto museum which recently ended put him in touch with people who believe in GAK. I found it interesting that he noted the argument that each additional day of government access is a good thing. This is the kind of belief we know that NSA holds -- a.k.a. "not on my watch" -- but I haven't seen it publicly admitted before. - Carl -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuZ35lQXJENzYr45AQEcfwQAqMftG0DXn1nr6faA6IHeAtqSXYanwnZb DiwqppU4nJqPtIvtFw8eOVVwyYCzIv046dFtwR2mk8HeL1v8I3R2sWm7waknFjlm TM84+vLamlVnBNPUAXRYOrFiEhPQm/iitR4GVrcga9mHJ+vrI38XQGzi0lxdg310 pWjq5Fxahag= =xhF7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme(a)acm.org http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | | PGP 2.6.2: 61 E2 DE 7F CB 9D 79 84 E9 C8 04 8B A6 32 21 A2 | +-Officer, officer, arrest that man. He's whistling a dirty song.--+

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