December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Fighting the cybercensor.
by Otto Matic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Tue Jan 21 16:57:46 1997 >"Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes: > >> Mission: >> >> Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think >> this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? The Web >> was conceived as offering despots and dictators a choice >> between remaining in the dark ages and allowing freedom of >> speech. Blocking and filtering schemes threaten this ideal. > >Phil, when I saw the subject, I thought this was another article >condemning Gilmore, Sandfort, and their disgraceful censorship. What's up with this one getting censored? You didn't say cocksucker or fuck or anything? Otto otto =-=-=-=-=- Otto Matic "Fuckin' A, Miller!" Bud, Repo Man --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:21 AM 1/22/97 -0600, David E. Smith wrote: >At 09:35 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I am looking for a transparent (strong) encryption of ZIP drives. >>Any advice would be appreciated. > >IBM or Mac? Parallel on Win95. Thanks, -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm

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Re: Keyword scanning/speech recognition
by pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've found another collection of references on speech scanning/recognition, the February 1989 CACM, p.193, contains 38 references going back to 1980. It'd be an interesting exercise for anyone with access to a large library to trace back through these (some of them look promising, like a 1980 book "Trends in Speech Recognition" from which a number of references are taken) to see how far back you can go and at what point certain things became feasible. The CACM references would be a good starting point for a search. Peter.

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Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation (fwd)
by proff＠suburbia.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From owner-freebsd-hackers(a)freefall.freebsd.org Wed Jan 22 09:05:30 1997 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-hackers(a)freefall.freebsd.org> Delivered-To: proff(a)suburbia.net Received: (qmail 7399 invoked from network); 22 Jan 1997 09:05:21 -0000 Received: from mail.webspan.net (206.154.70.7) by suburbia.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 1997 09:05:21 -0000 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by mail.webspan.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA22296; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:00:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22550; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22415 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22410 for <hackers(a)FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdr@localhost) by ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA11281; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:18:43 +1000 From: Gary Roberts <gdr(a)ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Message-Id: <199701220818.SAA11281(a)ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh(a)time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:18:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers(a)FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1045.853896142(a)time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 05:22:22 pm Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: gdr(a)wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Sender: owner-hackers(a)FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > But that doesn't even raise the biggest issue, which is: > > > Freddy Kruger (Kruger(a)ElmStreet.org) has submitted the > > following policy topic for discussion: > > > > > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ ... various amounts of discussion for 5 days ... ] > > Freddy raises the issue and 10 people vote on it, 7 feeling ELF-ish > enough that the motion "passes." > > Now what? We've got this as a supposed piece of "FreeBSD Policy" now > and users will surely expect it to be implemented or there wouldn't be ... Actually, I think you'll find he was proposing a two stage process where the above example only allows a further vote to be taken as to whether or not it should become `policy'. This second stage is where you spend your vote tokens if you want to stop something passing. You are really alluding to the possibility of things `passing' due to apathy of the vast majority. That could be easily fixed. I imaging that people with `vote tokens' have them because they are registered as `adherents' to the FreeBSD religion. The Votebot could send each adherent a re-registration slip, say every three months. No reply means you are automatically removed from the adherents list and your voting rights disappear. You can easily re-instate yourself at any time and your previous vote tokens (if any) are then restored. In this way you trim out people who have lost the religion. At the first stage of voting, a decision to have a real vote on a policy change will *only* be made if (a) a significant fraction of adherents take part in the vote AND (b) there is a majority of `yes' over `no'. That way, if there is general apathy, the thing dies. At the second `real vote' stage, you must then decide whether to spend your vote tokens. Once again, things `pass' only if a quorum is involved and there is a majority of `yes' over `no' votes. The required quorum could be quite different for the first and second stages of voting. For example, the quorum to decide whether or not to put things to a vote could be set at say 20% which would not stifle the process but the quorum to actually change policy could be say 40 - 50% to make sure that a vocal minority couldn't `roll' the silent majority. Terry did offer to implement the voting system. Why not take him up on his offer with the first question to be decided being:- Q. Should changes in FreeBSD policy be made by an auto-voting system? and if you get a `yes' on that then the second could be:- Q. Does the Emperor have some clothes after all?? :-). Seriously, it might be useful to have the user community vote on important policy issues (like a.out versus ELF) knowing that there is really no binding commitment on volunteers to do anything if it doesn't suit the volunteers. I'm sure everyone really does understand and accept that. It would also be useful to kill off discussion that has exceeded its use-by date (like this thread) by putting it to a vote and then getting on with more useful things. All the above is, of course, IMHO. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gdr(a)wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia.

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Re: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
by Richard L. Field 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

That would be Samuel Slater, who built his mill in Pawtucket, Rhode Island (still there, on Roosevelt Avenue) in 1793. He reproduced his former boss's factory from memory in order to collect on a bounty offered in the US on the export-restricted patent. - Richard Field At 06:39 PM 1/21/97 -0500, Sean Roach <roach_s(a)alph.swosu.edu> wrote: >This has often reminded me of something that occurred around 1776. >I can't remember if it was before or after. >Remember how the colonies got sophisticated spinning gear? >I believe it was spinning gear. >Great Britain had a ban on the export of functional models, diagrams or >manufacturing instructions to one particular class of equipment. This was >so that they could maintain the monopoly on cheaply made cloth, holding the >outlying colonies in line by maintaining a dependancy. >One man memorized the structure of one of these machines and then came to >the American shores, where he reproduced it workably. > >I can't remember the name of the man or the machine, just that it was used >in the manufacture of cloth, the "spinning jenny" i think. Nor can I >remember the date.

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ADSL (Was: GSM technology
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:43 AM 1/20/97 -0500, Nurdane Oksas wrote: > Does anyone use ADSL lines? or are they still very expensive? They're not widely available yet; I don't know if any of the (US) phone companies offer it as more than trials. One limitation is that the technology works over copper wire, so it has to be offered at your local telco wire center. Of course, your local telco has to have something useful to do with the bits once the user sends them to the telco, and has to have some useful bits to send the user. This means they've got to haggle about standards for 5 more years (or just do the right thing and deploy IP, with some respectable bandwidth to the outside world) (or deploy ATM to get a layer 2 connection to something outside.) Don't know if the telcos have a clue about pricing, either. It's obviously got to be more than cost, but they'll probably thrash around a lot the way they did with IP.... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:50:15 -0500 > From: "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> > Subject: Fighting the cybercensor. > > Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think > this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? 'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to stop it. Do you really want Singapore or China having a say in how we run our web? I certainly don't, and won't support any move to force any particular view on them. If Billy-Bob wants to shoot himself in the foot, let him. Might be purty funny to watch. > The Web was conceived as offering despots and dictators a choice > between remaining in the dark ages and allowing freedom of > speech. Blocking and filtering schemes threaten this ideal. Bull, the web was conceived so physicist and other researchers could share data in a easily digestible format. The web and technology in general have no more ethics or morality intrinsicly in them than a 5/8" open end wrench. Blocking and filtering are an expression of human choice and the implimentation thereof. You don't like it, don't live there and don't try to call there. You or I have no more right to be on a Chinese or Singapore Internet than they have in coming into yours or my home without an invitation. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Wow.
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:58 AM 1/19/97 -0500, Amanda Walker wrote: >I'm off to look for a mailing list where people are ACTUALLY DISCUSSING >CRYPTOGRAPHY AND IMPLEMENTING CRYPTOSYSTEMS. This list may still be >called "cypherpunks", but it doesn't have much cypherpunk left in it, as >far as I can tell. To some extent it's bad timing - there's been enough flaming on the list (including a few bad apples really harassing it) that John Gilmore decided it was time to start moderating the list, and that's led to a bunch of flames about moderation. But it was getting pretty bad. About a year ago the coderpunks(a)toad.com list got started; it's just for discussing code and related issues, not politics. It's moderated by the "Please be nice, and we'll kick you off for abuse" method, and it's worked out fine, though it's usually quiet. Also, a month or two ago, Perry Metzger started cryptography(a)c2.net , which is a bit more general but not for flaming. Perry moderates it. Both use -request to find the listbot. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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FW: Cyphernomicon by Tim May
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(meant to send this to the list earlier) From: Toto Personally, I could care less when people want to play footsie-games with flaming, but I think it points out the ludicrousness of having a moderator limiting people to 'childish' insults. I prefer someone screaming at me what a cocksucker I am. ................................................... Now, you know it has to do with proportion: if Jim Choate, in the course of an ADD-induced discourse on the reprehensability of libelous indiscretions, happens to let out a "Bessie", it's going to be less disconcerting than to read continuous content-less alerts consisting of nothing but declarations against your personal virtue. At the very least, the one provides some cause for educated clarification, while the other leaves nothing to say, but only to filter. However, it's 3:00 a.m. PST and Sandy's asleep right now, so if you really feel like flaming somebody uninhibitedly, now's the time to get past the flame-bot (hee-hee). = Ray Hettinga forwards these long, literate missives advertising this-or-that million dollar a plate conferences, but when he chose to insult me with his own words, the result was an immature blathering which showed questionable literary skills. ............................................. Bad, Ray - Bad! = It would be nice, however, to try to twist the rest of the list around to my own world-view. It gets lonely here in the 'rubber room' at the Home, and I could use some company. ............................................. You're at liberty to try. Why don't you start with Messrs. Jim and Jim. (but, wait - let me set up my Inbox Rules.....) .. Blanc

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[ITAR] Key Security Question
by winsock＠rigel.cyberpass.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Decoy L[esbian] Vagina K[ankersore]OTM uses an Adolf Hitler action figure as a dildo. O |'| /\ | | Dr.Decoy L[esbian] Vagina K[ankersore]OTM /\ \-------| / / |-------|

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