December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

SMILE :)
by angie＠cpci.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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RE: Silence is not assent (re the Vulis nonsense)
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, I see that my email came out a bit skewed, so I'm reformatting a bit and resending to make it more readable: ----------------------------------------------- From: Dale Thorn ... I believe that my idea above [asking John Gilmore to speak up, and if he doesn't, say to the list that he has declined to do so] is still a great idea (if the subscribers are not afraid of confrontation), as it would tend to force the issue more into the open. I don't know what you mean by "forcing the issue more into the open". Do you mean the issue of John' s not replying, or of censorship per se? If you mean "forcing the issue of John not defending himself on the list", I don't see where the issue needs to be forced. John has rarely posted to the list since it started, and typically only announcements of events or crypto papers/conferences, etc.; he does not engage in the discussions at all. I personally have no argument with his decision over when he posts or what he cares to post about, or how much or how little. My own interest in the list has nothing to do with whether the list owner is moved to defend himself or not. I'm free to roam at will, read or delete, post or unsubscribe, publicly and loudly or privately & quietly. I don't feel constrained in any way, shape or form to stay or go or speak or stay quiet. I make all my own decisions about this and John never knows nor, I expect, suffers any concern over it. And vice-versa. I (and apparently many others) do not feel the need to discuss John's decisions. I, and others, are not bound, like geese flying in formation, to follow his lead, nor are we going to fall apart at a loss for direction if he fails to "show up". You mention what "others had overlooked". How about this: Tim May sent a message the other day stating (in essence) that the whole "censorship" thing was pretty much a size (rather than content) problem. I posted that notion twice, and there has been *no* discussion of it, as far as I know. Too bad Tim didn't post that at the beginning of the affair, since everyone apparently reads *his* mail. What I meant by what "others had overlooked" was in regard of the content of posted messages which I have read, not in regard of *which* poster's messages are overlooked/not read by others. Tim can have whatever opinion he likes about censorship or size or content, and none of us are under any obligation to either agree or disagree with him. On a libertarian/anarcho-capitalistic list like this, the individuals who have elected to join and lurk or post are not expected to do anything but follow their interest. There are more than 1200 subscribers to the list; if each and everyone of them had decided they had something to say to each other about the concept of the rights of the person whose computer these messages are all flowing through, that would have been their fortunate privilege to do, as no one has put any limit to the number of messages allowed, from any one, during any particular period of time. (Of course they would all be expecting not only that their particular message would be read, but that everyone would absorb their wisdom, right. Not!) >Frankly, most of the long-time members of the list >would not need any such statements of defense from >John in order to appreciate the nature of the >circumstance and the reasoning for his symbolic >'censorship'. I apologize in advance for this one, but I honestly think that statement says more about acceptance of the Iron Boot principle than it says about what really happened. I for one am not an insider in any of the various cliques that surround this list, so perhaps I missed something that would explain it better to me. I suppose you are referring to an unspoken understanding, but again, and for future reference, you might want to consider the non-long-time members and speak the unspoken, as it were. What really happened is that, upon weighing the relative merits of John's action vs Vulis' contributions, what John did was seen as more of a benefit than a detriment, and this dimmed any arguments which might have been raised against it. It's not like everyone was clammoring for the privilege of reading what Vulis had to say or there aren't any other avenues to getting his literary works. The "unspoken" understanding on the list is that it was started by a couple of guys who happen to be very libertarian/cryptoanarchist in their philosophy of life (not simply as it applies to cryptography, but rather as cryptography relates to that philosophy). I put "unspoken" in quotes because there have been no end of discussion and comments and replies and retorts and flames on this very subject in the past years since I've been on the list (Oct '93, and it is actually what attracted me to subscribing), so it has hardly gone unmentioned and to many is no surprise, although is often difficult for them to see or agree with. I recommend that you go through the archives and do a little light reading. Your mind will soon be saturated with the flavor of the underlying theme, and you will Understand. .. Blanc

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Re: Stinger Specs
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Stinger (AIM-92) (Jane's #: 6604.331) >152 x 7-14 cm (l x d - span) >Weight: 18 kg >Warhead: HE >Propulsion: Solid >Range: 2-4 km >Guidance: IR > >Exact effective range / altitude is not listed in the quick guide I have >on my desk. I will pull it out of a larger volume when I have time. > When I was doing my undergraduate work several of us built a heat-seeking and homing circuit which we subsequently tested in a small (24-inch) solid propellent rocket. Four CO-2 cooled germanium sensors picked up radiation from a small flat-topped piramidal mirror which drove fin servos to 'null' onto (place its image atop the piramid) the heat source. One evening we were able to 'shoot down' a lit cigarette tied to fence up in the hills near the college from a distance of about 1/4-mile. For some time we considered making available 'Visible Missile" plans/kits, for a few hundred dollars, which had everything except the easily obtained zinc-sulphur propellent (would this be illegal given the laws passed since the '70s?) so those interested in IR missile technology could learn from a functioning testbed. I did quite a bit of serious amateur rocketry in my teen years through the Northrup Rocketry Club (So. Cal) and launches at a site near Edwards AFB (they were happy to track our launches and make sure there was no aircraft hazzard). Our 24-inch rockets reached speeds of over 1000 mph in about 1 second and altitudes of about 10,000 ft. 48-inch rockets (still small enough for shoulder launch) could reach over Mach 2 and altitude/ranges of about 50,000 ft (all figures insignificant payloads). I'm certain I and many of my friends got much of our interest for math and science and subsequent academic success from such hands-on activities which were encouraged or supported by teachers, parents, corporations and the government. We were forced to solve real chemistry, math, engineering, physics and material science problems. This has all vanished is our zeal to protect youth and society from any activity which might lead injury or misuse. I can't even find a place to buy a niece a real chemistry set as tort laws have forced them from the market. When considering the plumeting interest and achievement of our youth in math and science we look nor further for a reason. -- Steve

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Encryption/data-changing in russia
by Benjamin Grosman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear All, whilst on the subject of PGP in Russia, I encountered something very interesting. A friend of mine who is Russian, but lives out here, frequently corresponds with friends in Russia via email, and in the course of sending emai, they occasionally send an attachment. However, the attachment that _all_ his russian friends send, including the ones who use MIME capable email clients such as Eudora, always, _always_, uuencode files, and they say they can't do MIME. I am wondering if the encryption/data-changing laws in Russia are so strict as to disallow MIME encoding even, but still allows UU for some reason? Any clues as to this? Yours Sincerely, Benjamin Grosman

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Re: Stinger Specs
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:08 PM 12/5/96 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >This has all vanished is our zeal >to protect youth and society from any activity which might lead injury or >misuse. I can't even find a place to buy a niece a real chemistry set as >tort laws have forced them from the market. When considering the plumeting >interest and achievement of our youth in math and science we look nor >further for a reason. When Wernher von Braun (if the reader doesn't know who von Braun was, shame on your teachers. Hint: first human on the Moon.) first became interested in rocketry, he was a student of music. Classical piano, to be exact. He got his hands on a book about using rockets for space exploration. To his dismay, the book was full of mathematical equations. He went to his math teacher, asking him for help with the equations. The teacher must have been of help, since von Braun went on to become the single most knowledgable person in his field. And no, it wasn't piano playing. There is nothing like some real life challenges to spark a young person's mind. Today, conducting the experiments that fueled von Braun's imagination would be a felony. The mere posession of the chemicals he used in his early twenties is illegal. This country has set out on a project to dumb the minds of its young. With great success. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/justforfun/prime.htm

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Ira Magaziner: FREE Internet
by attila＠primenet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just posted an hour ago on CNN I don't believe it! Ira Magaziner's interagency task for recommended that the Internet be a free zone, duty free, and to try and persuade all countries not to limit speech, encryption, etc. two days in a row: first the SPA changed course and really balked, and now this from an ultra-liberal! maybe there is such a thing as a spark of freedom in the gathering darkness! <a href="http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9612/05/clinton.internet.reut/index.html"> Ira Magaziner Task force recommends Free Zone Internet </a> ===CNN post follows=== <html><head><title> Magaziner recommends Free Internet </a></title></head> <body> <H1>Clinton advisers urge free market approach for Internet</H1> December 5, 1996 Web posted at: 10:30 p.m. EST WASHINGTON (Reuter) -- The Internet could provide a huge boost to the U.S. economy if the federal government pursues "free market" policies in cyberspace, a group of President Clinton's top advisers said in a draft report obtained by Reuters. The group, an interagency task force headed by senior presidential adviser Ira Magaziner, recommended the administration work globally to protect the Internet from new taxes, censorship and other onerous forms of regulation. After seven months of deliberations, the task force is preparing to issue for public comment a report of principles and policies the Unites States should pursue, Magaziner said in an interview. "One of the things we're trying to do with this paper is as much say what government should not do as say what they should do," Magaziner said."A lot of what industry is concerned about is that governments are already beginning to take actions around the world that would inhibit commerce." The growth of Internet commerce could help boost U.S. exports of everything from movies and news to software and consulting services. Exports of such products totaled $40 billion in 1995, the draft report noted. The idea is to hitch U.S. exports to the speeding Internet commerce train. Sales of goods and services online are projected to grow to $7 billion in the year 2000, from about $1 billion this year, according to market researchers at Jupiter Communications. "Companies have told us there would be a tremendous potential to increase world trade across the Internet if we could provide the right kind of environment," Magaziner said. The draft report, called "A Framework for Global Electronic Commerce," covers nine issues, from taxation and customs to privacy and security. On taxation, the draft report echoes a report issued by the Treasury Department last month by stating no new taxes should be imposed. Acting through the World Trade Organization,the United States should push for the Internet to be designated a duty-free zone, the draft said. Some consumers worry their privacy will be violated when they shop online. he report said governments should push vendors to disclose what will be done with information about consumers rather than dictate to merchants what they can or cannot do with the data. On some issues, such as encryption -- encoding information in a scrambled format to provide a measure of security or privacy -- existing administration policies may be seen as conflicting with the free market approach of the draft report. Copyright 1996 <a href="http:/www.ccn.com/interactive_legal.html#Reuters"> Reuters Limited </a>. All rights reserved. </body></html> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMqewuL04kQrCC2kFAQH7eAP+L4Fk1sZgMl/YhufgluegE5Xo7nCvSJ8u rqhgBGmvE1/rY1HacDFt/4a9SgXkEfNPohkQoGnFccx1jhgZpBKbx8SQrIPPboHh Indv5MJbvcdGYfTR0UKms1t0iCv0DiQgtyXMxvHWFVTzByaKLu4cuEgatlSmsIoK SfRT376DqLg= =SSQB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: (null)
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 04 Dec 1996 17:33:59 -0600, Lurker wrote: >Could someone tell me where I can find a text file of *all* usenet newsgroups? Check www.spam-monkeys.com. If you use a Un*x based newsreader, they should have some sort of .newsrc file available. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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RE: Arsen
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An unknown person asked: > >Arsen vainly insisted on listing his name in InterNIC's database as RA1215 > >(unusual for someone supposedly interested in privacy). Arsen listed a phone > >number (+1 718 786 4227) which is apparently at his parents' residence (48-2 > >40th St, Apt 2B, Calvary, NY 11104-4111) and a fax number (+1 212 725 6559). > > Where does one find information to recreate your research? I was all > over > InterNIC's websight but could not find anything on RA1215 or Arsen, let > alone > a phone number. Don't these information services rely on user > volunteering > information. If not, how do I make this information about myself > secure? Your tcp/ip package should have a program called 'whois', which goes to internic and searches its database. I'm not sure if MS includes it in NT or whatever you're using... If you can't find it, just telnet to internic.net or rs.internic.net port 43 (important!) and type the string you want to search for. Save the output - it closes the telnet connection after sending it. Yes, it relies on people supplying the information about themselves. Some folks are pretty paranoid about. E.g., fingering unicorn(a)uiuc.edu says: ]---------------------------------------- ] name: You may not view this field. ] department: You may not view this field. ] title: You may not view this field. ] phone: You may not view this field. ] address: You may not view this field. ] other: You may not view this field. ] email to: unicorn(a)uiuc.edu (Not present in entry.) ] public_key: ]You may not view this field. ]---------------------------------------- May not view the public key? Come on.

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Red Letter Day
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An entirely on-topic post from Dimitri: >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: Re: PGP in Russia >From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) >Comments: All power to the ZOG! >Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 16:36:33 EST >Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Precedence: bulk > >harka(a)nycmetro.com writes: > >> Hi there, >> >> it's been asked before but I don't know the current answer: Is the use >> of PGP legal in Russia? And if it's not, how are the chances of a >> foreigner in Russia using it anyway to get away with it? > >Cryptography is outlawed in Russia (search the archives for my articles >circa April '95). You can probably get away with using it anyway, but >they just might make an example out of you. :-) > >--- > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM >Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The lottery is a tax on | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | those who can't do math. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | - Who 1st said this? | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: The Science Generations
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:44 PM 12/5/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >* Generation 1: The kids of the 1920s-40s. The Ernest Lawrences and the >Robert Noyces, who grew up on farms, repairing tractors and farm machinery. >They learned about machinery at a direct level. These were the giants of >the post-war science community, and the founders of modern American chip >companies. > >* Generation 2: The Sputnik generation, of the 1950s-60s. They grew up with >Gilbert chemistry sets, Erector sets, "All About" books, and with constant >exposure to nuclear physics, relativily, molecular biology, etc. These were >the workers who staffed the companies formed by the Noyces and Moores of >the world, and the young scientists who pioneered the use of computers. > >* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with >Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new >pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like. I am definitly from Generation 2. I have tried to interest my children in playing with ICs and various electronic pieces. I have also worked hand-in-hand with them, rebuilding auto engines and transmissions. We will see how it plays out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The lottery is a tax on | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | those who can't do math. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | - Who 1st said this? | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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