December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: cypher-PUNKS...
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

More fan mail from John Gilmore and his friends: >Received: from random.sp.org (deviant(a)random.sp.org [152.52.195.2]) by random.sp.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA08153 for <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com>; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:39:40 GMT >Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:38:57 +0000 (GMT) >From: The Deviant <deviant(a)pooh-corner.com> >X-Sender: deviant(a)random.sp.org >To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> >Subject: Re: cypher-PUNKS... >In-Reply-To: <gTykyD29w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> >Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.94.961208053743.8090B-100000(a)random.sp.org> >Organization: The Silicon Pirates >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >> "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: >> > I've initiated more threads on crypto-related and politico-crypto topics >> > than nearly anyone else. >> >> Ritalin, attacks on Mormons, assault rifles, attacks on "crazy Russians"... >> >> Crackpot spammer Timmy May (fart) lies again. > >Dimitri, just go away. Tim _has_ initiated more crypto-relivant >discussions on this list than anybody else I can think of, and the only >thing I've seen you initiating around here is spam wars. Just go the hell >away. > > --Deviant Silly Deviant, How could Timmy May initiate a crypto-relevant thread if he knows nothing about crypto? Timmy posted a series of message via anonymous remailers praising himself and calling himself "a genius among geniuses" or some such. What a moron.

1 0

KEE_pin
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The NYT reports today on the administration's new national security team and the formulation of policy to focus on international crime as a national security threat. Cited are thriving Russian black marketers selling hardware, software, and skills developed by the USSR; high-technology which has speeded communication and dissolved national borders; the diffusion of many enemies rather than a single superpower. The nature of crime has changed. No longer limited to drugs, terrorism and flight from justice, now there's money laundering, kidnapping, smuggling, credit card scams, even auto theft. It describes measures to combat this threat to all nations by cooperating and competing foreign affairs, intelligence and law-enforcement agencies around the world. None so trusting of each other. Some fund- and purpose-scrambling agencies klaxon that international crime is now as grave as nuclear proliferation and ethnic conflict. The three threats may merge, and new nations are at greatest peril. Which supports the administration's bulldogged clamp on crypto export limits: if we knew what they knew about rogue, ex-officials arranging their future with successors inside -- they need to communicate in private. What crypto will Perry, Deutch and consorts use to keep secrets among the few who know what we don't -- yet? Cryptanalysts, dissolve borders set by secret pacts. ----- KEE_pin

1 0

Re: PICS is not censorship
by Robin Whittle 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I agree to a certain extent with Timothy May about the potential for content labelling of Internet resources being made compulsory in the US. The country seems at times to be run be run by nutcases and their elected representatives. There are huge swings in fashion regarding prohibition, liberty etc. To the extent that this is a risk, lets hope it is only an American problem. I understand that the Australian Broadcasting Authority http://www.dca.gov.au/aba/invest.htm does not recommend compulsory labelling. thad(a)hammerhead.com (Thaddeus J. Beier) wrote: > I suppose the a better solution would have been to have many competing > private rating services, but PICS will work well, not put much load on > the net, and is transparent and simple. I like it. This may be seen to imply that PICS is a ratings service or a single set of values. It is not. PICS is a protocol for labelling things, either within themselves or labelling them remotely. There can be any number of value systems for labelling things. See my site for links to the PICS site and some discussion. However, talk of "compulsory PICS" really must mean that all content be labelled with a PICS protocol label (presumably inside the resource itself) according to _at_least_one_ globally or nationally mandated value system. Even with a descriptive rather than an evaluative value system (see ABA Chairman's recent speech at above link) I think it would take years to come up with a descriptive value system which would be generally useful for filtering material according to child protection, cultural specific issues (like Singapore banning horse race tipping and astrology) and protecting adults/employees from violence, erotica, gambling etc. etc. Then the value system would be impossibly complex. Then, how would you decide whether something was properly labelled. This is probably off topic for Cypherpunks (if that is indeed possible) so I won't say any more. - Robin . Robin Whittle . . http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr firstpr(a)ozemail.com.au . . 11 Miller St. Heidelberg Heights 3081 Melbourne Australia . . Ph +61-3-9459-2889 Fax +61-3-9458-1736 . . Consumer advocacy in telecommunications, especially privacy . . . . First Principles - Research and expression - music, . . music industry, telecommunications . . human factors in technology adoption. . . . Real World Interfaces - Hardware and software, especially . . for music .

1 0

Gosh, now I feel much better...
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sun Dec 08 12:31:18 1996 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/9arms.htm Has an interesting story by by Peter Cary, Douglas Pasternak and Penny Loeb, about big mother's great care in disposing of munitions; including, but not at all limited to, encryption. For sale are attack helicopter partss, bombs, missiles, guidance systems, howitzer parts, computers, and yes, military cryptosystems. While by law all these things are supposed to be demilitarized, they aren't in many cases. They are instead evidently sold as scrap (and at scrap prices) and go to nice countries like China. If it were closer to April 1st, I would doubt this story is real. <sigh> According to the assistant U.S. attorney in Sacramento, "The scope of this program and the amount of materiel going out the door is so huge, people normally don't believe you. Only the government could have a program where they give everything away for free and they screw it up." Couldn't have said it better myself... JMR Regards, Jim Ray DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy One of the "legitimate concerns of law enforcement" seems to be that I was born innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. -- me Please note new 2000bit PGPkey & address <jmr(a)shopmiami.com> PGP id.A7D63DA9 98 1F 39 BA 93 86 B4 F5 57 52 64 0E DA BA 2C 71 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEPAwUBMqr7ajUhsGSn1j2pAQG8dAfQrBqvkOgXWaT507n5mxYX7kGYDr2hSEz+ cgVkTlipih2ThLRfLWlgO8+cwodifUkQDCAdpA1GKqCJL08ZBdnRex+ecygcrKP/ 84pIa2PfOtpeK6Srggpp8X5/aodBDlsZR2n++rJA1b65m6T54g6LvDrEwiv9dStR /4VaMGlAz465XbgjPmCQ5ME44p7cKk0ZQ/Q3kKdpyZTfRC6H+Xl1PVQq87dm1eYQ ibyA3VzFRGAIy9lLdMW4RuGoCqw0yKpdaVY8Bjhv8LVWUkETADbfCWPG3gXmkpV/ Hm4tEvdtV99wXygyjTBd1zlbKTuZa0GPd46reBJlo5Xylg== =kZ+Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Gosh, now I feel _much_ better...
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sun Dec 08 12:31:34 1996 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/9arms.htm US News has an interesting story by by Peter Cary, Douglas Pasternak and Penny Loeb, about big mother's great care in disposing of surplus munitions; including, but not at all limited to, the encryption variety. For sale are attack helicopter parts, bombs, missiles, guidance systems, howitzer parts, computers, and yes, military cryptosystems. While by law all these things are supposed to be "demilitarized," they aren't, in many cases. They are instead evidently sold as scrap (and at scrap prices) and go to nice countries like China. Maybe I'm missing something or being fooled, if it were closer to April 1st, I would doubt that this story is real. According to an assistant U.S. attorney in Sacramento, "The scope of this program and the amount of materiel going out the door is so huge, people normally don't believe you. Only the government could have a program where they give everything away for free and they screw it up." I couldn't have said it better myself... <sigh> And *they* think _WE_ need more "gun control." JMR Regards, Jim Ray DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy One of the "legitimate concerns of law enforcement" seems to be that I was born innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. -- me Please note new 2000bit PGPkey & address <jmr(a)shopmiami.com> PGP id.A7D63DA9 98 1F 39 BA 93 86 B4 F5 57 52 64 0E DA BA 2C 71 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEPAwUBMqr7ezUhsGSn1j2pAQEybwfPSUQ4pPXDFtCBvMAoBXpSQm7QcY3Qp/Dr jVFrHhxuyTz+jpcHMxE9AKt468UL60CrVVNZ/vPYlz9/nuabHVgKEB5F9hvuR7zj jP67eGpeO5ck3vttQDiyvB3DzkaSqaJVre01dXoL3OenXRYnd7HVLg2S8HzdERqv gIHMIbFE5wMd7wjG7YkCwzVFVD7aK+erxuuI0lNA8b8/sfEkhdJUw1FMOJsIUh6R qbQi4GFipIcTuUcipYiKgq73gb7b9KTT9SvERQ9i2acfPIBPILoi0vsJc+46Dukh CC0pFdpDbvefYYqeAiPEzUMdQY5PxLtSVp+Wk5pRvnVw+A== =DQYX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: The Science Generations
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Frantz wrote: > Off list 'cause it's off topic. > Dale - My experiences don't parallel yours. (BTW - I agree that HP makes > good equipment. HP has always been one of the industries class acts. I > just don't agree that you couldn't do small business computing on > Apple/IBM/Osborne etc. because many people did it.) > I never used an Apple ][ hard disk, but I worked in a room with perhaps 30 > IBM PCs with the first 5MB disks for about three years. Don't ever > remember any of them crashing. > Yea, I remember doing that once in the eight years or so we ran the system. > Better reliability than some 4 function calculators I had. The point is > not that these systems were better than your beloved HPs. The point is > that they were good enough so many people used them for serious applications. > Applications that earned these systems a place in the business. > Applications that returned more to the business than the cost of the systems. The phrase "your beloved HPs" gives your hand away. The truth is, many customers I knew would reiterate exactly what you said. But when I would press for details, I would find that they were *very* lightweight apps, and the ability to deliver day in day out was essentially nonexistent. BTW, I don't see above where you said what would happen to the IBMs or Apples when the power shut off while writing to the hard disk.... And Apples and IBMs *did* require surge protectors, not provided by the manufacturer. And neither Apple or IBM would repair their own stuff. This last point is very important to me, but I can see where it would be lost on non-professional users. HPs were made for use in less than ideal environments, which is why: 1. When you use an HP or Apple in lots of areas of Southern California, particularly close to the ocean where most people live, the HP will perform for a long time and the Apple will corrode rather quickly. 2. When I went to a show in Anaheim once in the summer, and the air conditioning quit, and the temperature reached 100+ fahrenheit in the display areas, the HPs were the only micros still running. 3. As far as calculators go, try leaving several CMOS machines in your locked car with windows up in the summer for, say, 3 or 4 hours while you're inside of a mall, to name an example. See which ones still have their CMOS data intact. To sum up, when you haven't had to depend on professional gear for real production work at home or on the road, you can't make these kinds of judgements knowledgeably. The main gripe I have about postings like this is that they argue on emotion about a technical issue. HP is far from a *good* company these days. Matter of fact, the day that they introduced the HP-150 (touchscreen) computer, they yanked the engineers off the new-item rollout team and replaced them with IBM PC dodos who knew nothing about HP. This is very similar to what Volkswagen did when they dumped the reliability ads for the Beetle and started cranking up the sexy ads for the Rabbit. That's when Honda started to eat Volkswagen's lunch, 20 years and running. I can see clearly where this strategy put HP a lot of years behind the competition. You will recall, of course, that HP started this whole thing with the first-ever personal (take it home and plug it in and start programming in Fortran immediately) computer, the 2116A, in 1966. Expensive, yes, but still by every technical account a personal computer. In case you haven't noticed, and in spite of HP being full of assholes these days (I don't use that term lightly), HP has gained market share in PCs (not just printers) against Apple and IBM by a factor of several times. HP is now #2 in the PC server market, for example. How Compaq got to be #1 I don't know, since when I worked in Pasadena we couldn't leave the machines on all day, since none of them would last more than 3 weeks that way.

1 0

New York Area CPUNKS meet
by Marc J. Wohler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The NewYork City area Cypherpunks will meet on the UpperWest Side of Manhattan. Date: Thursday 12/19/96 Time: 7:30 PM Place: The Club. Park Royal Hotel, 23 West 73rd Street. Between Columbus & Amsterdam Avenue. Subway stops: 72nd & Broadway #1 #9 #2 #3 (express stop) 72nd & Central Park West A or D trains Refreshments: BYOB & snacks. We can order out for dinner. All our welcome but please email me your intention to attend (if you have not already done so.) Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMqsDk2eikzgqLB7pAQHxFgP9FbdXYo4qiubH9zBFW+CdQb5LZVxKAhWB EwfV+2EquVT94dokYMN9P0n26ZIozJejpXf44QLLgNPvWHqHB8Wult/U7zyVeVid 1YVRftVFnxPlBjkabH5yGR8efP7L2i5Ynh5X8I0jFy9G8Wfilxsg8QT8r+eYtDWB g/b4Wpr0/0w= =CIyV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

[CRYPTO] PGP
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C[retin] May's IQ is lower than the belly of a pregnant snake. . o c , `'#v-- --v#`' Timothy C[retin] May /'> <`\

1 0

Re: The Science Generations
by Bill Frantz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:10 AM -0800 12/8/96, Dale Thorn wrote: >The phrase "your beloved HPs" gives your hand away. What hand? You appeared by your statements to be a lover of HP stuff. I now find it was only from that era. My of my hand is only to say that people DID use them other things for real business uses. Your posts appeared to say that was impossible. However, as Bob Hettinger says, "Reality is not optional." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | I still read when I should | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | be doing something else. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | It's a vice. - R. Heinlein | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

1 0

info
by Scott Kimmel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0