December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 ðì 16/11/1996 -0500, Tim Scanlon wrote: >Between >the 2 lists & various people I see represented here, with all due & >serious respect, you folks have GOT to have better, more important, >and far more deserving issues to devote your time to. I would hope >that you would take a few moments and think about those things, and >consider acting appropriatly in light of those thoughts. [...] >And it's >gotten way, way out of hand. I suggest that it might be better not >to spam cypherpunks with this stuff, and to give it a rest. >Tim Scanlon I think the expulsion of Dimitri Vulis is HIGHLY on-topic inside the Freedom Knights List. As it happens, it is ALSO on topic in the cypherpunks list, no matter how HARD you try to forget this. After censoring Dimitri, you will also NATURALLY try to censor others too, such as myself (receiving notices that I stop "cross-posting" to the cypherpunks list). However, you are a HYPOCRITICAL ASSHOLE, becayse you ALSO cross-post to your own (cypherpynks) list. What you CLEARLY want is to HAVE THE "LAST WORD" ABOUT THIS ISSUE. This is typical of all censorship. If your request was SINCERE, you would be the FIRST to NOT CROSS-POST IT to the cypherpunks list. Oh Gods of Olympus! :-) >Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives: >[lots of worthless crap snipped out] You mean whatever you disagree with, or perhaps don't bother to read, you dismiss as 'worthless crap'. It's funny, this attitude. I find it philosophically inexcusable. I never dismiss the opinions of others as "worthless crap" when they are expressed eloquently. What I said instead is that "VERY important ideas have been expressed from all sides". Perhaps you didn't notice. >> When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered >> a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum. The whole problem >> here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore. >> >It's not an abuse of power. It was an effort to curtail inappropriate >SPAM. Much like this entire topic has become non-crypto SPAM on the >cypherpunks list. You have begun REDEFINING "SPAM" according to your personal feelings and opinions. "SPAM" as EVERYONE ELSE understands it, implies some kind of _gain_ (e.g. from advertising) inside a posting. Redefining "SPAM" is consistent with attempts to redefine other known words as well. Like the word "Censorship", which has been redefined to mean "ONLY official censorship". The tendency of closed-minded internet communities to REDEFINE common words as they deem fit, is RATHER WELL KNOWN, where I come from. I am a dictionary maker by profession, BTW. (I write some of the software for it, and run the business. OK, I also do spelling mistakes. It's not my job to know everything, ya know! :-) :-) ) However, if you take my own opinions for instance, they are expressed without ANY thought of gain (by definition impossible, since I don't advertise anything. I write these texts at the intervals of a very real life, involving a lot of swimming, and a lot of Research. When my friends and I meet, we laugh a lot with the situation thousands of miles across the ocean, where... EVEN a "cypherpunks" mailing list has evicted someone forcibly. Rather typical, as it happens. Gives you people a bad name you know... >> The first time is the time when you lose all credibility, and there >> is never any forgiveness for a plug-puller. > >All bullshit aside, this whole thing has NOTHING to do with crypto. >And it has very VERY little to do with censorship either. Which means you probably didn't read much of what was said anyway. Typical... George

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Output of your job "cypherpunks"
by L-Soft list server at CCI (1.8b) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> ok Confirming: > SIGNOFF NEWSLETTER You have been removed from the NEWSLETTER list. Summary of resource utilization ------------------------------- CPU time: 0.200 sec Device I/O: 0 Overhead CPU: 0.000 sec Paging I/O: 0 CPU model: Pentium 90/100 (30M)

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Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 ðì 16/11/1996 -0500, Tim Scanlon wrote: >Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives: >[lots of worthless crap snipped out] As an aside, some of this "worthless crap" written by Stephen Boursy and "others with no lives", happens to contain jewels of wisdom and humility such as the following: (cut and pasted from another posting): >> P.S. I never understood the (American?) preoccupation about... "putting >> out flames". If I find flame-messages boring, I don't read them! >> If anyone insults me, I reply; If anyone speaks nicely, I also do. >> The (American?) preoccupation about flames conceals a deep _fear_ >> of freedom, freedom of the other person's freedom. > > > This is very true. I'm worried about the US--our lack of respect >for free speech--our extremely poor social services for the poor, etc. >It is not a country I'm proud of at the moment. Much of what is >praised about the US--our stability of government--is our downfall--we >should be able to toss a government like we have out on its ass and >string up the leaders on telephone polls. Are you aware... tiny Tim, that Stephen Boursy's comment should make Americans feel PROUD, and that his response to my rant made me think a LOT? Perhaps learning from the humility and wisdom of others has also been banned inside your... tiny-Tim brain cells. Happy Recovery Geirge

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Re: More Euro Key Escrow
by Bryondp＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

take me off this list

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Re: Giving Kill Files a Workout...
by cvhd＠indyweb.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:52 AM 11/16/96 -0800, you wrote: >What a week! What is this? "Net Loon pig-pile on Cypherpunks day?" >So far i have killfiled three people in the past two days. (That is the >total number I filtered to trash before that date.) >For those of you who are sick of wading through this mess, I am willing to >show you what it will take to filter those of your choice to /dev/null or >its local equivelent. (procmail can be your friend!) >Maybe after some creative filtering, the list will settle back to the usual >noise, instead of the net-loon noise. As the smoke from the first rounds of cyber-gunfire of the Gilmore vs Vulius shootout were wafting thru C-space several of us were bemoaning the fact that the entire issue hadn't been handled thru creative filtering on the part of list members as opposed to the heavy-handed "Big-Bro'ish" plug pulling by Mr. Gilmore. The "net-loon noise" level increase was predictable. Like you I will continue to perform creative filtering in order to extract the 4 out of 240 messages worth reading in any given 48 hour period. cvhd

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MSIE 128 Bit
by Steve Shelby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sat Nov 16 11:56:26 1996 "WorkHorse's interface is pretty ugly and the rendition is buggy, but the SSL connection does work: I got through mbanx's "Sign in" link at http://www.mbanx.com/banxing/5welcome.html , whereas MSIE and NS3 were kicked out due to their 40-bit RC4 limit." - ---- Microsoft has a 128 bit version of their Explorer available. You have to jump through a few hoops, but they have it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMo3yP0F1dOf86f8dAQHs1QQAwYuTk5Lqvb2vBgvOVef1ToFIUtG5JN70 dBmD8JM23N0ZROsF03+wFGUT71pMAuu3BjuJQBOm0r9idPBwdcq6CaVf8QoU5+/Q tbj6b9PFx9EbpE4bZqoGPf3ePRFg6ImMSdyKDeM5vIMKJO8BwQZugqP2CgblkzlG yvEgPyiUlek= =ZlSn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: THAT is what makes ---Snipshit---------
by dshipman＠ewol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>> time for ------Snipshit--------- >> An excellent --------Snipshit------------- > >In that case ---------------Snipshit------------ >Jai Maharaj >%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:%:% Om Shanti %:%:% Splash!! Another one falls from filter to Crap Bucket. Damn, a week ago I didn't even know how to *use* a filter! DLS --------------- A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill

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Re: Does John Gilmore...
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:37 AM 11/16/96 -0800, Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> wrote: [snip] >I have a suggestion for "Aga" and others who believe this sort of >nonsense. Please do us all a favor and try to sue John. I'm sure >that among all jack-leg and wannabe lawyers on this list that they >can come up with a viable cause of action. And John has deep >pockets; you could (literally) make out like bandits AND rescue >"freedom of speech" on privately maintained mailing lists. Such a case would obviously fail. John has the right to ban anyone he wants from a list that he is hosting. I do question, though, whether or not it was the best way to handle the situation. As I have argued, the availability of end-user filtering made banning Dimitri from the list unnecessary, IMHO. And the list owner giving people the boot sure doesn't fit with the picture I have had of what cypherpunks was about. YMMV. I think that John is doing a lot of great things for crypto (his participation in the Bernstein case, S/WAN, etc.) and I agree with at least 90% of the things I see him doing. I think he made the wrong call with Dimitri, though. >You >could be heroes (or look ten times as foolish as you already do). Actually, if John was trying to cut down on the noise by banning the Kook, I think it's backfired. It seems like there is even more irrational chatter now... Rich -- Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/

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Giving Kill Files a Workout...
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What a week! What is this? "Net Loon pig-pile on Cypherpunks day?" So far i have killfiled three people in the past two days. (That is the total number I filtered to trash before that date.) For those of you who are sick of wading through this mess, I am willing to show you what it will take to filter those of your choice to /dev/null or its local equivelent. (procmail can be your friend!) Maybe after some creative filtering, the list will settle back to the usual noise, instead of the net-loon noise. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: Giving Kill Files a Workout...
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:52 ìì 16/11/1996 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> Thank you in advance for your filtering instructions (yawn). >> >> BTW, why would anyone give a shit whether you killfiled anyone or not? > >But, Dale, that's the whole point of censorship: people like Alan Olsen >and John Gilmore and Jim Ray aren't satisfied when they've killfiles a >source of noise they consider annoying so it doesn't bother them anymore. >They feel compelled to silence it altogether. They claim altruistically >that they don't want the noise to bother anyone else, such as the clueless >newbies who keep subscribing to this mailing list and don't know how to >use mail filters. (Sandy Sanford's concern for them was soooo touching...) Rather infuriating, too, that newbies are PATRONISED. It's well known among my own circle that forcible expulsions from mailing lists serve the purpose of controlling the information-flow to _newbies_ mostly; since hard-liners and experts know how to killfile anyone anyway... But sometimes, in other mailing lists, "killfile-terrorism" appears, meaning an attempt to influence EVERY newbie into killfiling someone whose messages are no longer read, but the messages of his critics are read. It's a return to the MIDDLE AGES, because it means that the words of the prosecutor are heard, but the defense of the accused is deleted. Greek friends and I have been studying this Mechanism of Repression for rather a long time. It's probably encouraged by the EFF, too, in the sense that (the goal is): Turn the Internet into cows and sheep flocked together by pimp-cowboy list-owners. It nearly turned me into a Yankee-hater till I realized there are quite a few open-minded Americans similarly infuriated and concerned. One Net-friend of mine (an American lady) has a doctorate in History and Law and remarked that FEW PEOPLE IN THE STATES REALIZE WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, and how EASY it is for the freedom-bashers to succeed. Lastly, I have now read nearly ALL of Dimitri Vulis' postings (in the F-K list), and consider it CRIMINAL censorship if anyone tries to stop him from speaking out. His talent at exposing fallacies is magnificient. This is the beginning of the END of pimping-on-the-net in the name of "privacy". George

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