December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: mailing lists
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Or About: 12 Sep 96 at 18:11, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > more restricted. I'm personally against needing to pay the social costs of > > more and more laws because someone is trying to make a buck any way he > > can, regardless of the costs and annoyances to others. > > > > Junk faxing was a blessedly short term fad, one that had to be legislated > > > > I'm completely in favor of allowing junk email, as long as "JUNK MAIL" is > > required to be the first thing on the subject line. PLONK! ... but that > > will take yet another law ... > Wombat: If you are "against needing to pay the social costs of more and more laws" Then how come you want another one? > IE," as long as "JUNK MAIL" is required to be the first thing on > the subject line. PLONK! >... but that will take yet another law > > ... "! One more law to pay for, one foot in the door for the government. Don't call for new legislation in order to not get spam! Please. Ross =========== Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: 415-206-9906

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Fed appellate judge remarks re anonymity, free speech on the net
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Daily Journal, a LA/SF legal newspaper had an article today (9/12) about a lunchtime address given by Ninth Circuit Judge Alex Kozinski last Monday at an Internet Law Symposium in Seattle. The article quotes Kozinski as saying "I have a severe problem with anonymous E-mailers . . . You don't have a right to walk up to somebody's door and knock with a bag over your head." The article says Kozinski likened anonymous E-mail to menacing someone. Kozinski also suggested that computer-generated or morphed images of children involved in sexual acts may not be protected under the Constitution because of ongoing trauma to the child, while computer-generated or morphed images of adults would be protected. The article says that Kozinski was skeptical that he or other federal judges necessarily agreed with the 3rd Circuit's ruling in _ACLU v. Reno_ (finding the CDA unconstitutional). Kozinski is considered relatively conservative and relatively libertarian, as 9th Circuit judges go. Copies of the Daily Journal should be available at larger newsstands in CA; interested parties might try DeLauer's on Broadway near 14th St in Oakland if you're in my neck of the woods. (They usually have extras for the preceding week or so.) Also try Barnes & Noble in Santa Monica or the newsstand whose name escapes me in Westwood, if you're down there. (Also in today's news, the 9th Circuit upheld a CA statute forbidding sales of material considered "harmful to minors" from vending machines.) -- Greg Broiles | "We pretend to be their friends, gbroiles(a)netbox.com | but they fuck with our heads." http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | |

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who can count?
by HipCrime 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> No, this b.s. is more like having someone put a dead skunk in my > mailbox, with no return address, trying to prevent me from sending > them 100 dead skunks as a return favor. And about as welcome. 100 dead skunks in exchange for ONE is exactly what this discussion is all about. You CypherWIMPS just love over-kill. EmailRobot sent ONE message to EACH address. Are you guys so unskilled in arithmetic to understand the difference between 1 and 100? One message is NOT spam, 100 messages to a single box IS spamming. -- HTTP://www.HIPCRIME.com

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Re: SPL -- Suspicious Persons List
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > > Digitaltronics Corporation V.P of Human Relations: "Joe, thanks for coming > in this morning. I'm sure you're busy, so I'll make this as short as > possible. OK with you?" > > Joseph Shlubsky, Programmer: "Uh, sure." <nervously> Yeah, thats why we Europeans have labour laws that prevent Digitaltronics from doing any such thing without getting sued from here to eternity. Pity you guys missed out on the idea of trades unions and think that employment is some kind of serfdom in which you loose all your rights the day you sign up. If you hadn't sold your government to the cooprorations a while back you might have got out of the middle ages. I suspect that even under the weak as dishwater employment laws that you have in the US would provide ample opportunity to file a countersuit. When that type of thing happens, they don't give the reason, they do it behind closed doors. How do you fight that? Phill

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"Unwanted Mail"
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:48 PM 9/12/96, Rabid Wombat wrote: >> >> These people have invited the email, and the associated expense, by placing >> a public email-to: button on their public www page. > > >Most people put up an "email to:" button on a public page for >communications related to what's on the page. It's quite a stretch to >assume that this invites any and all email from anyone who cares to send >whatever they want. I can't say I've ever seen one that said "Please send >SPAM(tm) to:" ... But to attempt to define "SPAM" (unless you're Armour) is dangerous. This whole notion of "unwanted mail" is ill-defined and not something "the law" should get involved in, in my view. (And CP technologies certainly are consistent with this, e.g., placing the role of screening on those who set up gates, not on tracking down True Names for prosecution.) >However, since others may think like you, I guess I'll have to add a line >above my link stating that email not related to the purpose of my site >will be happily proof-read at the rate of $200 per hour, 1 hour per 60 >lines, minimum. Perhaps I'll get lucky. If I get a big enough chunk of >SPAM(tm), it might be worth the costs of breaking down the anonymity. As the legal eagles will tell you, the essence of a contract is a two-way agreed upon set of terms, not a one-way "if you send me mail I decide I don't want, you will have incurred a charge of $1000." Try enforcing your $200 an hour "proofreading charge" in any court in the land. (I've been saying this thing for several years. Who knows, maybe Rabit Wombat was the first to use it. Whatever, it's as unenforceable and meaningless now as it was several years ago.) >No, this b.s. is more like having someone put a dead skunk in my mailbox, >with no return address, trying to prevent me from sending them 100 dead >skunks as a return favor. And about as welcome. In the case of actual USPS mailboxes, there are laws which prevent others from using them (e.g., no UPS or FedEx deliveries). For sure, dead skunks can be placed in mailboxes, or under porches, or whatever. The law can't fix everything. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Unrequested mail from Mr. Babayco
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:28 AM 9/13/96, Z.B. wrote: >It doesn't matter if you get one or one hundred messages - both are still >annoying as hell. If I wanted whatever you're advertising or selling, >I'd come look for it. I'd prefer that you not mail me. Mr. Babayco, I did not request your mail to me, and I am annoyed at having received it. I am not interested in the views you are advertising or selling, and I'd prefer that you not mail me. To make me whole, I demand that you send me $125 for this occurrence, and $125 for each future occurrence. Have a nice day. --Timothy C. May cc: Law firm of Canker, Sleazewell, and M. Dooza (sauce for the gander?)

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Security technical list
by MacGyver 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[pgp sign clear] Anybody could help me to find a mail list of security,crypto,etc?? Regards

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Morph Escrow
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 AM 9/13/96, Greg Broiles wrote: >Kozinski also suggested that computer-generated or morphed images of >children involved in sexual acts may not be protected under the Constitution >because of ongoing trauma to the child, while computer-generated or morphed >images of adults would be protected. Hence the proposal for "morph escrow": "Upon presentation of a valid court order or Presidential Decision Directive, a complete morph history of any image deemed possibly of prurient interest must be presented to law enforcement." As the law cannot tell if an image of prurient interest started out as a legal image of Raquel Welch or Jennifer Aniston, or started out as an illegal image of a minor child, morph escrow will force all image possessors and distributors to produce proof that the image started out legal. Failure to escrow morph histories, or possession of an image with an authorized morph history escrow certificate, is punishable by not less than six months in jail. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Fed appellate judge remarks re anonymity, free speech on the (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:40:19 -0700 > From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> > Subject: Fed appellate judge remarks re anonymity, free speech on the > net > > The article quotes Kozinski as saying "I have a severe problem with > anonymous E-mailers . . . You don't have a right to walk up to somebody's > door and knock with a bag over your head." The article says Kozinski likened > anonymous E-mail to menacing someone. I guess the esteemed judge doesn't believe in Halloween.... Does this also mean that he supports the complete elimination of junk mail that has no return address on it? > Kozinski is considered relatively conservative and relatively libertarian, > as 9th Circuit judges go. Conservative AND Libertarian? Talk about a non-sequitar. Jim Choate ravage(a)ssz.com

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Reputation Systems in Action
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:41 PM 9/11/96, paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: >> tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) writes: >> > As to "tasteless and insulting," a matter of personal perspective. I find >> > it helpful to call a spade a spade, and others apparently do as well. >> > >> >> Of course, Tim gets very uncomfortable when others call a spade a spade. > > >This constant character assasination of Tim is getting rather boring, >as far as I can see, and I read all of the posts on the list, he has >done nothing more than ignore posts from these idiots, that is his >choice and nothing to do with anyone else. But this latest episode illustrates the role of reputations. Namely, my own reputation is not being harmed by bizarre commentaries from the Vulis-bot. As its reputation is (apparently) pretty low, and associated with Serdar Ardic-style rants about "sovoks," "the cabal," and "spit," such an entity can hardly "assassinate" my character. A few years ago Larry Detweiler, aka "vznuri" ("visionary"), aka "S.Boxx," aka "Pablo Escobar," aka several other alternate personalities, wrote dozens of screeds denouncing me, Eric Hughes, Nick Szabo, Hal Finney, etc. Did this have an effect on our reputations? Not to people I respected, of course. And if Detweiler's rants affected my reputation with his peers, including Dimitri Vulis, Ludwig Plutonium, Doctress Neutopia, Serdar Argic, well, this is to the good. In the mathematics of reputations, a negative reputation held by one whose own reputation is negative is a positive. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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