December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

"X-Ray Gun" for imperceptible searches
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would wonder if a jamming device (preferably area-effect with a slowly randomly varying swathe of area, to avoid figuring out who was carrying it) would be possible, or some variety of shielding (i.e., emitting waves looking similar to flesh). -Allen > Direct Media > NEW X-RAY GUN TRADES PRIVACY FOR SAFETY > Copyright &copy 1996 Nando.net > Copyright &copy 1996 The Associated Press > SANTA MONICA, Calif. (Aug 12, 1996 09:47 a.m. EDT) -- The latest > weapon against terrorism can see right through you. > The Passive Millimeter Wave Imager can X-ray through clothing to "see" > a concealed weapon, plastic explosives or drugs. A police officer can > surreptitiously aim it into a crowd from as far away as 90 feet. > The new X-ray gun is becoming a symbol for an unlikely alliance of > civil libertarians and gun owners who fear the fight against crime and > terrorism may be waged at the expense of personal freedoms. > "I'm incredibly concerned," said John Henry Hingson, a past president > of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, meeting here > this past week. "The entire nation could become a victim of illegal > searches and seizures and the law is powerless to protect them from > these police abuses." > But in these nervous times following the the crash of TWA Fight 800 > and bombings at the Olympics, Oklahoma City and the World Trade > Center, many Americans are now willing to trade some of their privacy > and civil liberties for greater security. > A poll last week by the Los Angeles Times found that a majority of > people -- 58 percent -- said they would curtail some civil liberties > if it would help thwart terrorism. Thirteen percent said it would > depend on what rights were at stake. The poll didn't ask people to > single out any rights. > The Clinton administration has proposed increased wiretapping and > other anti-terrorism steps, and is doling out research grants for > cutting edge anti-crime technology that once may have been intended > for only military use. [...] > Two models are being developed of the Passive Millimeter Wave Imager, > a creation of Massachusetts-based Millimetrix Corp. > The larger one, about the size of a shoebox, is mounted on a patrol > car and pointed at the unsuspecting person. The gadget doesn't send > out X-rays; instead, it picks up electromagnetic waves emitted by > human flesh. > Anything that stands in the way of those waves -- like a gun -- or > anything that emits weaker waves -- like a bag of cocaine or a plastic > explosive -- will show up on a little screen in the patrol car. > Clothes emit no waves. Neither do walls, allowing the device to be > used from even outside a room. > A second model is a smaller, battery-operated version that an officer > can operate by hand, like a radar gun. > Millimetrix hopes to field test the larger model soon at a police > agency. > Hingson argues the device runs roughshod over bans against illegal > searches and seizures. The law says police can stop and frisk a person > only when an officer has a "reasonable suspicion" the person is armed > or involved in a crime. > Millimetrix points out that while the imager can see through clothing, > it still leaves people some privacy. The device's display screen, the > company says, "does not reveal intimate anatomical details of the > person." > Chip Walker, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, noted that > devices like the imager threaten the legal rights of people in 31 > states who are allowed to carry concealed weapons with proper > licenses. > "We certainly support efforts to disarm criminals, but we need to be > careful that we're not painting with too broad a brush here," he said. > Walker said that as troubling as terrorism is, people may be playing > into terrorists' hands by giving up their privacy. > "One of the broader issues is that if we start giving up certain civil > liberties, that essentially means that the terrorists are starting to > accomplish one of their goals," he said.

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Re: "X-Ray Gun" for imperceptible searches
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:12 AM 8/13/96, Alan Horowitz wrote: >CCW holders don't have a legal right to conceal their possession of >weapon, from the police. > I think the earlier remark was oriented toward "not scaring the horses" rather than making a serious attempt to hide the presence of a gun from a duly-authorized search. People who carry concealed are _strongly_ encouraged to keep the fact of their concealed carry hidden. No "careless" displays in bars, for example. And no announcement to casual bystanders, and even to store security guards. The reason for this is simple: to avoid panic and overreaction ("He's got a gun!!") and also to avoid having a concealed weapon used in a brandishing situation to intimidate others. Seen this way, the widespread deployment of metal detectors, millimeter wave detectors, and other such gadgets would force major changes in CCW laws. Aside from the Constitutional issues, which are major. I don't see how "remote scanning" of the population at large, without probable cause, is much different from the cops listening in from a distance with parabolic antennas. Both cases involve detection of signals emitted from the target. And yet such long-distance interception is not allowed without a warrant. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: AW: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:35 AM 8/13/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >Bart Croughs writes: >> I would be proud if I had discovered this axiom, but alas, I haven't. >> It's an axiom that is generally accepted among austrian economists >> (Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc). I don't know who actually discovered it. > >The truly hysterical part is that Tim and I are both (from what I can >tell) Austrians. Indeed. While Perry and I disagree on some things, the relevance of the Austrian School of Economics, and its University of Chicago satellite campus, is not one of them. If Croughs stays on this list long enough, he will surely see this. (And find plenty of references to Hayek, Menger, Friedman, etc., in the archives.) The problem with the "Croughs Axiom" is not that there is not a _general_ correlation between average national wages and average national capital investment--there is. A scatter plot of wages vs. capital investment for the 200 or so nations would almost certainly show that the Ivory Coast has low per capita wages and low per capita wages, Sweden has both higher wages and higher capital investment per capita, and so on. Correlation, of course, is not causation. No, the problem was that Croughs invoked this general _correlation_ (which can arise for various reasons) to support his mercantilist protectionist ideas. (He also didn't say he was talking of nations, which is why some of us found the examples we did, e.g., MacDonald's vs. law firms, which have the opposite correlation he described.) And the cloud of ideas connected with somehow forcing capital investment to remain in the U.S....well, the best way to do this is to alter the tax laws so that America (for example) becomes a magnet for investment. (If one is looking to help America, that is.) In any case, the original notion, of somehow using cryptography policy to support U.S. interests....well, I rather doubt that Menger, Von Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, or any of the others connected with the Austrian School would buy Crough's protectionist arguments. And I certainly know that jingoistic appeals to "America First!" are inconsistent with the sentiments of many or even most on this list. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Free Pronto Secure Offer
by Sean Sutherland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Aug 13 02:29:17 1996 Whatever happened to that free offer for ProntoSecure for members of the Cpunk list? Remembered hearing something about it awhile back, but I don't know exactly what it is. Thanks. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Key: finger or email w/ 'send key' in subj. http://www2.interconnect.net/maverick iQEVAwUBMhAu3lZoKRrkPmSJAQFw1gf9GjVSbvqDnneHDc4YDE1z+L3A+ZB6GtS+ kN9kKloqQ4oKb8lzHhJoBrs0+BqaRf1+6bwPul6Eh6vf9FJ9VmifVBdC1oFcfVLZ gqj++PfukYvTh5bZIEvzx6OMhm9V9AXM7ne8ySrDD0FfkDSI+PYC/ONsqmhej4wR V4lfSyFm9dPCuvdD/C5YlIAhWD2BO0xUKpJjM6LtTmU+AHMC6qyjKvSv85HfIk2v 4cpHBY97iOmUQL/526D2ql0eQsZymg8ntN8Q6fXZ8AJt79zwfT3GeDG5fPg4iDEs 70LVtbqY73SqBpdRdYcTOJzrwPLJ2fLQrqgDjw+xO+kyogu70XdI5w== =XlrN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry Metzger wrote: >Bart Croughs writes: >> I would be proud if I had discovered this axiom, but alas, I haven't. >> It's an axiom that is generally accepted among austrian >>economists >>(Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc). I don't know who actually discovered it. >The truly hysterical part is that Tim and I are both (from what I can >tell) Austrians. >Perry Well, if you are an Austrian, then maybe you should study the Austrians a bit more and write a bit less about them. In several posts I gave quotes from famous Austrian economists that support my statement that according to Austrian economists wages depend on the amount of capital invested. And all that you answer to this is that you're an Austrian yourself. What do you expect me to say? "Well, Austrian economists like Murray Rothbard and Henry Hazlitt think that wages depend on the amount of capital invested, but Perry Metzger disagrees and says he is an Austrian himself, so we can't conclude that according to Austrian economists wages depend on the level of capital invested?" For the moment, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that you don't understand the Austrians. But of course you can try to attack the arguments of the Austrian economists, and convince them that they are wrong and that they ought to adopt your point of view. Bart Croughs

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Fw: Police on the Net
by Charley Sparks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.Rutgers.EDU, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Aug 13 05:55:50 1996 If any of us find the address, please post the addresses here..... - -----Begin Included Message ----- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:08 EDT From: "E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.Rutgers.EDU> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Cc: First, I'd be interested in knowing some of those online reporting addresses, and how much limits they place on what can be mailed to them... persuading these cops to deal with the improper use of another's computer (i.e., spam) would seem to be a distinct possibility in diverting them from other activities. Second, it would appear possible (unless they're encrypting it) to intercept some of these email lists of theirs - if necessary, by forging a subscribe to an _overseas_ nymserver that isn't too well known (unlike, say, anon.penet.fi). That's about on the same grounds as their mention of "know thine enemy." (It is, of course, pretty certain that various libertarian groups are among those monitored, such as cypherpunks.) Third, this gives additional reasons not to give out one's address to anyone. What people know about me is a post office box and my old address. -Allen - ---- End of forwarded message ---- Cut to save space.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCXAwUBMhBRJ+J+JZd/Y4yVAQHjYgQKAiBzkv0iVGlG1wNn3QLJwR/KymkzFeej ByxF4uLs/IuQ9Np7Y0MZ64rmO7O85z6yoL0iZUegmwfQFuoVX+A3XrN0gtMzA3YR dyTaOS63IJ5kyBggrSt0Yx6kVT5FtAIELbb3KVC7+oqa2nsc9/DuC24S3uKsSoDm KZ7/qnHd1nM+Mw== =2i9v -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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AW: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: >At 10:31 PM 8/11/96, Bart Croughs wrote: >> But there is another axiom of economics which the >>nationalist/socialist can use for his case against the free movement of >>capital. This axiom states that the wages of workers depend on the amount >>of capital invested. The more capital invested, the higher the wages are. >>If American >I agree strongly. In my Econ 101 class, lo those many years ago, I was >constantly reminded to "Remember the Croughs Axiom!" I would be proud if I had discovered this axiom, but alas, I haven't. It's an axiom that is generally accepted among austrian economists (Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc). I don't know who actually discovered it. >It is why MacDonald's workers, who work at a company which has invested >truly vast sums of money in the capital of its outlets, pays its workers so >much more than do the legal firms, advertising firms, etc., which have >invested almost nothing in the capital of their facilities. When economists say that wages depend on the amount of capital invested, they mean on a regional/national level, not on the level of individuals. Back to class! Bart Croughs

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Re: Read; NOW
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> >> Hi I'm Unix Code and have a few things to ask...(it may not go >> with Cryptography but go ahead and read) > Sad. You read my mind. P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... Smell The Roses And Eventually You'll Inhale A Bee. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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thank god and phil...
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

All I can say is thank God and Phil for PGP... My next X was using the 'puter last night and opened my email folders and was rooting around... I had to "fumble" my pass phrase and finally "give up" saying that the damn PGP was broke again... we all know it don't break !! This could have cost me a fortune in divorce court !!

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re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry Metzger wrote: >Bart Croughs writes: >>When economists say that wages are determined by the amount of >>capital >> invested, they mean on a regional/national level, not on the level of >> individuals. >So, you are saying that if everyone in the country spent their life >savings on building giant green pylons, the capital investment would >drive up everyone's wages? Wow! In fact, we could borrow money >from >other countries to build more green pylons and drive up wages so >fast >we could pay off the resultant debt! >Perry >(PS Please stop posting these things -- you may kill everyone >watching >with laughter.) No, I am not saying that if everyone in the country spent their life savings on building giant green pylons, the capital investment would drive up everyone's wages. You are suggesting that I'm saying this, but it's simply not true. This is called 'setting up a straw man'. I am saying that the fact that American workers are better paid than workers in Third World countries, can be explained for a large part by the fact that there is much more capital invested in the US than in Third World countries. If you still don't understand this, I suggest you study my other posts on this subject, or better still, you study the works of the Austrian economists I've quoted before. Bart Croughs

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