December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Anguilla...etc.
by Greg Kucharo 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

I guess the point I was trying to make all along is this; Is a data haven going to be a security through obscurity operation? This is what the Swiss have with secret bank accounts, etc. Or will it be an operation where the operator of the system lets whatever on, and hopes he won't get prosecuted. In Island in the Net, the haven were physical. The authorities got to them eventually. Vince's system is restricted by physical laws. There will always be a finite array of information he can present without putting the whole operation on the line. Is he still a data haven then? I believe so. But through creative diplomacy he could balance the powers that bind him. How well he or anyone else does this is the key to the range of information presented. ---------- > From: Timothy C. May <tcmay(a)got.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: Anguilla...etc. > Date: Tuesday, August 13, 1996 9:07 PM > > At 2:21 AM 8/14/96, Greg Kucharo wrote: > > While Tim may be right that nobility is lost when backing down to the > >authorities, the fact is that this game has little to do with noble > >purposes. Check that, obvious noble purposes. While most on this list > >would agree that free flow of information is noble we have all seen that > >this is otherwise with people in power. As I stated in my last post, the > >Swiss have maintained thier "haven" for many years by playing both sides. > >In accomodating everyone they avoid harassment. > > This way the Swiss maintain a good system and live to fight another day. > > Let me be clear that I am not talking about "noble motives." In the sense > of somone sacrificing himself for the good of the herd, blah blah. > > Rather, there is an "archetype," if you will, of what a "remailer" is, what > a "data haven" is, what a "tax shelter" is, etc. While we cannot reasonably > expect a remailer to exactly match the archetype, we can point out obvious > deficiencies. > > For "data havens," we have very few examples, compared to operational > remailers. We have the fictional form in Bruce Sterling's "Islands in the > Net," some of whose plot twists have some parallels to the current Anguilla > situation. Another is the form described in Ross Anderson's "Eternity > Service." > > What might we expect of a true data haven? I've tried to describe several > of the attributes in my earlier posts, mainly by asking questions about > specific examples (bomb-building instructions, "Kill the monarchy" screeds, > etc.). > > Interestingly, with several of these examples, Vince has said that he is > not interested in having this kind of material on his site. His invitation > for Multi-Level Marketers to avoid U.S. and other laws by locating on his > service has now been withdrawn, from his latest comments. (To the person > who sent me mail explaining that MLM schemes are not illegal in the U.S., > indeed, some are legal and some are not. I said as much. And for those > which are legal in the U.S. or France or wherever, they would hardly have > any need to use Vince's service, would they? I surmised from his invitation > that he was encouraging MLM/pyramid scheme operators to avoid their > parochial fraud laws and use the services in Anguilla.) > > I plan to do more looking at just who is left, who is using Offshore > Information and what kinds of services they are offering. Not to harass > Vince, of course, but to better look at the envelope of what is considered > OK and what is not. > > If i find that all the "juicy" stuff is gone and all that is left is > booking sailing cruises around the Carribbean, I'll hardly call it a "data > haven." Which is not to say it's not still a useful and profitable business > for Vince, just that it has no Cypherpunk relevance. > > --Tim May > > Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! > We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > >

1 0

Re: Imprisoned Capital
by Bart Croughs 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Duncan Frissell wrote: >There is no straightforward link between amount of capital invested and >productivity or wages. If there were, some steel plants in the Soviet Union >would have had the best paid and most productive workers on earth. It's not a coincidence that you mention the Soviet Union. As I said in a previous post, Austrian economists like Murray Rothbard, Hans Hermann Hoppe, etc. don't consider government expenditures to be *investments* of capital; they consider all government expenditures to be *consumption*. >Additionally, countries which prevent capital outflows don't receive capital >inflows and thus become poorer. >DCF This is a good point when you talk about governments that will prevent *all* capital from flowing out. But a government could prevent the outflow of capital of it's own citizens, and still allow capital of foreigners to leave the country. As long as foreign capital isn't imprisoned, foreign capital could be attracted. Bart Croughs

1 0

Re: Jurisdictionless Distributed Data Havens
by Bill Stewart 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 09:52 AM 8/15/96 -0500, "Douglas R. Floyd" <dfloyd(a)io.com> wrote: >As of now, I am looking for someone who can help me implement a redundant >controller system, so when the DH is contacted, even if the first one if >smashed, the "RAID" stays operable. One approach is "Just Don't Do It" - let the user (or user interface program) handle the RAID work. You can get fancy and use Shamir Secret Sharing, or non-fancy and use N+1 sparing RAID, or medium fancy and use {<even-bits>,<odd-bits>,<evens xor odds>}, depending on how private and how reliable you want to be. Having just the even bits of decently-encrypted cyphertext makes cracking tough.... Some issues to think about - - Access patterns - who do you want to be able to retrieve the data? --- only the owner? --- people who the owner shares a secret with? --- Everybody? --- Everybody who knows where the pieces are? --- One retrieval? Many retrievals? - How do you want the data delivered? Anon remailer? HTTP? POP3? - Threats - who don't you want to be able to read the data? --- who don't you want to be able to delete the data? --- who don't you want to find out who retrieved the data? - Payment - who pays? Writers? Readers? Cops with warrants? Account holders or one-shot users? Digicash only? How much? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> Defuse Authority!

1 0

Physical Havens
by Greg Kucharo 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Let's take a look at the successful havens of history. 1. Hashishim( Old man of the mountains)-The Aga Khan survived thousands of years of harassment by the surrounding powers by placing a few well choosen daggers. 2. The monastic system- These whole setup was an excellent model. The monks were burrowed away in those places for centuries. The church built them like fortresses to withstand the heathens, both mentally and physically. The original "data warehouse". 3. The pirate havens- Places like the carribbean(originally), then Madagasgar(last). Pirate havens did business for everyone. 4. The silk routes- The trading centers of the old silk road sprang up overnight then vanished. Original anonymous trade. All of these physical havens eventually fell to the persistance of the major powers of the day. Or were co-opted by others who absorbed the critical black market features of these systems. ??????????????????????????????????????? Greg Kucharo sophi(a)best.com "Eppur si moeve" -Galileo ???????????????????????????????????????

1 0

Re: Stealth Buildings Was Re: "X-Ray Gun" for imperceptible searches [NOISE]
by Bill Stewart 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 09:01 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote: >I repeat. Generations of sweating engineers have discovered and confirmed >that there is not an easy, "Silver Bullet" cure of the canonical problem >of shielding electromagnetic energy from reaching someone who knows how >to interpret it. I also repeat - the problem isn't TEMPEST, which I agree is a tough problem. The problem is preventing radar imaging from detecting the shape of metal stuff you're carrying, and shielding with a sufficiently thick layer of metal should do that. I don't know, for the technology they're using, if this means tinfoil-thickness or armor-plate thickness, but random-thickness metal should help. Of course, walking through the airport wearing plate armor will probably disturb the security guards more than mere chain-mail :-) >Bill, you are welcome to look at a layer of tin foil and give a sigh of >relief that you've shielded your gun or your crypto diskette or your >private body parts feom someone who knows what they're doing. Go ahead, >chant a mantra too, if it makes you feel better. I've always enjoyed the one that goes You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you. License and registration, please. Go to jail. Go directly to jail. It's not a threat, it's just a choice you can make. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> Defuse Authority!

1 0

Re: Burden of proof
by Bill Stewart 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 05:31 PM 8/15/96 -0700, DAVID A MOLNAR <molnard1(a)nevada.edu> wrote: > What is to stop the IRS from pointing out that you received the >money from your employer? What employer? What money? Some Anguillan consulting bodyshop sent some guys who did the work, and MegaCo paid the bodyshop. The shop paid the guys some typical low wages, and also bought computer services from another Anguillan company, which deposited its profits in its bank account in Jersey. Employee Jean D'Eau used the company Visa card for the account and took some business trips to San Diego, stayed in a hotel in Seattle, rented cars, ate out, bought computer toys at 47th St. Computer, paid for his Netcom account, and got a Visa Cash advance in Jamaica. No problem, mon.

1 0

The dangers of using radar
by Arun Mehta 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

I picked this up on Marsha Woodbury's jokes list (not all are fiction!): >>Two members of the British Lothian and Borders traffic police were out on >>the Berwickshire moors with a radar gun recently, happily engaged in >>apprehending speeding motorists, when their equipment suddenly >>locked-up completely with an unexpected reading of well over 300 mph. >> >>The mystery was explained seconds later as a low flying Harrier hurtled >>over their heads. The boys in blue, upset at the damage to their radar >>gun, put in a complaint to the RAF, but were somewhat chastened when the RAF >>pointed out that the damage might well have been more severe. >> >>It seems that the Harrier's target-seeker had locked onto the 'enemy' >>radar and triggered an automatic retaliatory air-to-surface missile attack. >>Luckily, the Harrier was operating unarmed. >> >>Otherwise... "Gee Officer, sorry about your patrol car........" Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

1 0

Re: Lunch with Bill, anyone?
by Marc J. Wohler 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 05:31 AM 8/16/96 -0700,John C. Randolph wrote: >Meeting Bill Gates would be every bit as exciting as meeting Tony >Orlando. Or maybe Wayne Newton. I don't mind the sarcasm regarding Gates, but watch what you say about Wayne Newton!

1 0

Re:BlackNet as a Distributed, Untraceable, Robust Data Haven
by mccoy＠communities.com 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

Tim May writes: > > I have to speak up here and say that there is an actual working exemplar of > a distributed, untraceable data haven. While it lacks a robust _payment_ > mechanism, that is also untraceable, so does the "Visit Port Watson" > example (which has never actually existed) BlackNet also lacks any sense of persistence. A message posted lives at the whim of newsgroup expiration policies and getting a copy of an expired message is a non-trivial task. It is also not an overt data haven, there is really no address or pointer you can direct someone to and say "look here." Usenet as a data haven is like dropping messages in to bottles and casting them in to the sea; getting it where you want and having the intended recipient be able to find the data easily is still an unsolved problem. It is a bulletin board for establishing private two-party communications on any topic, but it is not even close to being a mechanism for "publishing" in the manner to which people have becomed accostomed to on the net. jim

1 0

Offshore data havens
by Arun Mehta 18 Dec '03

18 Dec '03

At 17:30 15/08/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >As with offshore buoys, how long do you think such an entity would last? > >You mentioned Greepeace...don't forget that the French intelligence >apparatus sunks a Greenpeace ship in a New Zealand harbor. Don't forget the >way the U.S. mined Managua's harbor. And so on. >Think of how any of these schemes are vulnerable to a cheap torpedo, >"anonymously mailed" from several miles away. There is another aspect to this: the French sinking of the Greenpeace ship in New Zealand was arguably the best thing that ever happened to the organisation. They certainly got lots of publicity, new members, money... On the Internet, news spreads fast, so the cost of such an attack in terms of damage to reputation would be high. Of course, if the torpedo were truly anonymous, we wouldn't know who to blame. All criminals attempt to commit crimes "anonymously", yet many do get caught. >Oil rigs, buoys, pirate ships....these are all examples of hopelessly >insecure systems. I could say more, but what's the point? OK, suppose someone were to bury the server deep in a valley or shaft under the water, with only an antenna sticking out (and a supply of spare antennae that could be automatically deployed if one got knocked out)? And, with Moore's law in operation, one might even be able to deploy large numbers of such servers that mirrored each other at reasonable cost. Once connectivity is via LEO satellites, unless those beasts are equipped for the purpose, I suspect locating the source of transmission will not be all that easy. Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://www.cerfnet.com/~amehta/ finger amehta(a)cerfnet.com for public key

1 0