December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [RANT] Death of Usenet: Film at 11
by tob＠world.std.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

frantz(a)netcom.com (Bill Frantz) writes: > At 1:34 PM 8/19/96 -0700, Mike Duvos wrote: > > > Moderated newsgroups gain reputation from their moderation policies and > probably should not be included in this scheme. Actually, this was hashed out a long time ago on the late, lamented news.future. I'm pleased to see ideas I fought for coming to life again. Moderation could easily fit in. A moderation-stamp would be just one more field for the search to work with. Someone (I think it was me but it's been years since all this was said!) speculated that this would actually be an improvement in several ways: * If rejected messages were indicated by simply missing a signature of approval, voluntary not searched for by individual readers, it would be harder to claim moderator censorship. Or to accomplish it, for that matter. * Multiple independent moderators could work on the same newsgroup. * If the stamp of approval were dissociated from the message proper, messages could propagate without waiting for the moderator's receive-email-and-post cycle. The moderator's "OK" would catch up later, for those readers that wait for it. Imminent resurrection of Usenet predicted. Film-teaser at 5. Tom

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Re: (null)
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 17 Aug 1996 07:03:32 +0200 (MET DST), Anonymous wrote: >>There are many computer companies that are full of Bozos, >>Microsoft isn't one of them. Most of the people griping about >>Microsoft can't code any better. >Gee Phill, as I'm preparing to leave MS after 6 years, I have to >disagree with you. Mediocrity and bureaucracy have eatten away >at a lot of the core of the company. It is entirely marketing driven >now, and the coders have definitely gone down hill since I first >started in Apps. The "bozo" factor has steadily increased. Only >those new hires without a sense of history think it's a real cool >place to work. And, a few egocentric folks totally tripped on >power and greed. (Apologies to any MSofties on the list I don't >know personally.) That would match my general impression of the way things have gone. Originally Microsoft was a small company that *had* to write good code (anyone remember DR DOS?) to survive. At the time, they had to do tons of work producing usable products out of IBM's code. (Apparently due to optimization, at one point MS was writing a negative total codelines for OS/2 1.x) Now, IBM is writing good code (Warp/Merlin/etc) and making usable products out of MS blunders (Win-OS/2. It may crash (not quite as much as the real Windows - separate sessions) but it doesn't bring down the whole house... >Talk to HR about the turnover of people with 5.5 to 8 years >under their belts who are bailing with their stock options because >it ain't a fun place to work anymore. Testers, developers, UE, >you name it. > >I can gripe because I was there. I never seem to recall seeing >your name on any internal e-mail. > >Oh yeah, this is coming through a remailer, because I'm reading >the list at work. And I doubt BillG would appreciate my opinions >being sent out over MS resources. | Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> - Webpages for sale! Se habla JavaScript! | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp | Autoresponder: send email w/subject of "send resume" or "send PGPKEY"

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Unbreakable Hoax
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon Aug 19 11:55:19 1996 > > DISCORDIAN SOCIETY SUPER SECRET CRYPTOGRAPHIC CYPHER CODE > > Of possible interest to all Discordians, this information is herewith > release > from the vaults of A.I.S.B., under the auspices of Episkopos Dr. > Mordecai > Malignatius, KNS. > > SAMPLE MESSAGE: ("HAIL ERIS") > > CONVERSATION: > A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 > > STEP 1. Write out the message (HAIL ERIS) and put all the vowels at the > end > (HLRSAIEI) > STEP 2. Reverse order (IEIASRLH) > STEP 3. Convert to numbers (9-5-9-1-19-18-12-8) > STEP 4. Put into numerical order (1-5-8-9-9-12-18-19) > STEP 5. Convert back to letters (AEHIILRS) > > This cryptographic cypher code is GUARANTEED TO BE 100% UNBREAKABLE. I found an optimisation to reduce computation time: Replace steps 1 to 5 by the following step a: STEP a. Sort the string according to the alphabet. The properties of the algorithm are still the same, it's unbreakable (unfortunately also by the originator, but that's a petty detail). ;-) - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMhg6ChFhy5sz+bTpAQHlZggAwr3W4+XGpF+yqd2D/8YFbBK4v+ddjlSB Wgjd7xU4N+KB0bRcNLMZzdiHVyeLMoi6TMmxTNarhAzqTmn5dEjhwysSkWxWsKUo cK7T3pXO5A33r+Htv6L6W1mTlFhIW6neFM45P4NQgYdYwhPJAP8B+xMy0z0OIcoM BHwvmaDZFJVY6ps/T23gClzKDWQI8XDFbGyL8iNNefRXKWnwLS3YZgRXGKJD9BrX R/LtW1KzKJk63tPFWngehXItQc2WeuCdR/BhO9hCVN66j4B7t40d9e4mxCkr2f/Z kqhaI9Cl81BA/Xj508sLADgq3NGa6ps7dIFg6Js+UD7K9NIuAfg/jg== =qkkB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: US Taxes on X-Pats (getting off topic)
by Stephen Cobb 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:24 PM 8/18/96 -0400, you wrote: >As I understand the proposal, the immigrant-benefits thing would be for >immigrants admitted AFTER the act was, uh, enacted. So, no ex-post-facto >problems. > > I know this is getting way off topic...but what I am not clear about is this: 1. Americans living and working in London used to be eligible for certain benefits from the British social security system, into which they are required to pay. There is a reciprocal arrangement between the US and UK on soc sec benefits and payments. The new US law seems to alter that, which could affect the US citizen living in London, as in, "sorry mate, you can't come in here with that knife wound, not without your cheque book you can't." 2. Making legal immigrants living in the US pay soc sec "taxes" without being eligible for benefits sounds pretty unfair, even "unamerican." Maybe someone who knows more about the law in these matters can clarify. Stephen

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"c2"} = "<remail(a)c2.org> eric pgp hash reord"; $remailer{"penet"} = "<anon(a)anon.penet.fi> penet post"; $remailer{"flame"} = "<remailer(a)flame.alias.net> cpunk mix pgp. hash latent cut post reord"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"ecafe"} = "<cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org> cpunk mix"; $remailer{"amnesia"} = "<amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ksub"; $remailer{'alpha'} = '<alias(a)alpha.c2.org> alpha pgp'; $remailer{'nymrod'} = '<nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"lead"} = "<mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"nemesis"} = "<remailer(a)meaning.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"vegas"} = "<remailer(a)vegas.gateway.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"ncognito"} = "<ncognito(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> mix cpunk pgp hash latent"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)c2.org> cpunk pgp hash cut ksub reord"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"balls"} = "<remailer(a)huge.cajones.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (c2 alpha) (flame replay) (alumni portal) Use "premail -getkeys pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu" to get PGP keys for the remailers. Fingering this address works too. Note: The remailer list now includes information for the alpha nymserver. Last update: Mon 19 Aug 96 6:47:01 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- balls remailer(a)huge.cajones.com *++******** 3:33 100.00% penet anon(a)anon.penet.fi .--..--...- 19:43:48 99.81% nemesis remailer(a)meaning.com *********** 23:25 99.71% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca -*********** 1:42:22 99.70% winsock winsock(a)c2.org -__----..-- 10:02:35 99.67% replay remailer(a)replay.com ***+******** 4:30 99.51% amnesia amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com --- ------ 3:51:56 98.85% nymrod nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com ###-+ # 21:25 97.41% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com ---------- 6:30:40 95.67% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com -+---+++-++ 1:35:16 92.72% lead mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu +--+++++ ++ 1:01:56 86.82% haystack haystack(a)holy.cow.net --##**#* - 19:17 85.11% ncognito ncognito(a)rigel.cyberpass.net --+ 7:57:35 15.59% alpha alias(a)alpha.c2.org . 5:24:22 7.71% lucifer lucifer(a)dhp.com + 53:57 7.27% c2 remail(a)c2.org . 5:59:32 6.81% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Indonesia detains democracy activist after post to mailing list
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 21:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Indonesia detains democracy activist after post to mailing list Indonesia is joining the rest of the world in cracking down on online speech. Perhaps the lesson here is that no matter how much the Internet supposedly "routes around censorship," the most vulnerable points are the humans on both ends. More info on the global net-crackdown is at: http://www.eff.org/~declan/global/ -Declan --- http://www.hotwired.com/netizen/96/34/special0a.html HotWired, The Netizen 19 August 1996 Trouble in Paradise by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) Washington, DC, 18 August Indonesian democracy activists have taken their fight for freedom to the Net, and the government doesn't approve. After distributing email messages about riots in Jakarta last month to an international Indonesian-politics mailing list, Prihadi Beny Waluyo, a lecturer at Duta Wacana Christian University, was arrested and interrogated by the military. Since then, the mailing list has been banned from the country and Waluyo has returned to his house, where he remains under surveillance. Until now, Indonesian cyberspace has been relatively free, with no regulations or laws explicitly restricting online discussions. By contrast, newspapers and magazines are subject to strict censorship, following a 1984 ministerial decree requiring the press to obtain licenses from the government. [...] "He [Waluyo] was arrested and accused of sending messages to Holland and printing out photocopies," said Sidney Jones, executive director of Human Rights Watch/Asia. "The army is out to stop any kind of discussion of the riots." The censor-happy regime of President Suharto tried to stop journalists from reporting on the outbreaks of violence - which shattered his carefully cultivated image of a stable Indonesia. The worst domestic disturbance in a decade, the uprising started after police stormed the headquarters of an opposition party and ejected anti-government activists from the building... [...] --- August 14, 1996 His Excellency M. Arifin Siregar Ambassador to the United States Embassy of Indonesia 2020 Mass. Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20036 Your Excellency: I am writing on behalf of Human Rights Watch/Asia to protest the arrest of Drs. Prihadi Beny Waluyo, a lecturer at Duta Wacana Christian University. Drs. Waluyo was arrested at his home by soldiers of the district military command. He was reportedly accused of distributing e-mail messages and also of sending messages relating to the July 27 riots to a destination in Holland. His arrest came after an unidentified person gave an officer photocopies of e-mail messages that were traced to Drs. Waluyo. The person claimed the printouts came from a store in Kebumen, a district of Yogyakarta. Following his arrest, Drs. Waluyo was interrogated by the military about his connections with the Peoples Democratic Party (PRD), which the government has accused of masterminding the riots, but he denied any involvement with the PRD. He acknowledged that he had sent messages over the Internet. Following his questioning, he was reportedly ordered to go to his home and was told to report to the district military command on a regular basis. He is said to be under strict surveillance. Human Rights Watch opposes actions by the Indonesian government to restrict electronic communication. As stated in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression: this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. We believe that such forums provide a truly unique opportunity for people from around the globe to share their views with an international audience. By allowing unrestricted communication, important issues can receive the benefit of serious discussion by the broadest cross-section of society. If the Internet is to achieve its potential to become a global information infrastructure, it is important, at the present moment, to agree to allow its unrestricted development. We urge that Drs. Waluyi and every other citizen be allowed to receive and transmit electronic mail without fear of harassment, intimidation, or arrest. Sincerely, Sidney Jones Executive Director Human Rights Watch/Asia cc: His Excellency Nugroho Wisnumurti, Ambassador to the United Nations --- [Thanks to Bruce Sterling for this excerpt. --Declan] >From the INDEX ON CENSORSHIP web site: http://www.oneworld.org/index_oc/ INDONESIA It was reported in May that the government has banned the book Bayang Bayang PKI (In the Shadows of the PKI). Published by the Institute for Studies on the Free Flow of Information (ISAI), it focuses on the 1965-1966 events leading to the assumption of power by President Soeharto. It is now a criminal offence for any person to process, publish, distribute, trade or reprint the book. (A19) The government has put pressure on the media to report positively on government-backed efforts to oust the leader of the opposition Indonesian Democratic Party (PDI), Megawati Sukarno-putri. On 2 June army officers invited most of Indonesia's chief editors to attend media briefings where, among other things, they were told not to use the words 'unseat' or 'topple' in their reporting. A rally in Jakarta organised by members loyal to Megawati on 20 June was broken up by troops, who killed at least one of the protesters, and arrested hundreds. Erwin Hadi, photographer with the weekly Sinar, Iqbal Wahyudin of CNN, Tomohiko Ohtsuka of Mainichi Shimbun and Reuters photographer Enny Nuraheini were among the journalists injured by soldiers during the rally. Local stations were also banned by the government from broadcasting images of the protest or from helping foreign news agencies feed their pictures of the rally abroad. Megawati was finally ousted as PDI leader on 22 June. (Institute for Studies on the Free Flow of Information) The Supreme Court voted on 13 June to uphold the government's ban on the independent newsweekly Tempo (Index 4&5/1994, 3/1995, 1/1996). The Court ruled that the information minister has the right to revoke publishing licences since he also has the right to issue them. (Institute for Studies on the Free Flow of Information) Index Index incorporates information from the American Association for the Advancement of Science Human Rights Action Network (AAASHRAN), Amnesty International (AI), Article 19 (A19), the BBC Monitoring Service Summary of World Broadcasts (SWB), the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), the Canadian Committee to Protect Journalists (CCPJ), the Inter-American Press Association (IAPA), the International Federation of Journalists (IFJ/FIP), the International Federation of Newspaper Publishers (FIEJ), Human Rights Watch (HRW), the Media Institute of Southern Africa (MISA), International PEN (PEN), Open Media Research Institute (OMRI), Reporters Sans Frontires (RSF), the World Association of Community Broadcasters (AMARC) and other sources ###

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Re: [NOISE] Re: Stopped Clock. Was: Schlafly on Crypto
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:18 AM 8/16/96 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>Subject: Clinton Is Trying to be Big Brother -- Phyllis Schlafly Column >>It does seem really odd, doesn't it? But look at it this way: The only >>reason the knuckle-dragging conservatives are able to take the moral >>high-ground on this and other net-freedom issues is because the OTHER >>"unrependant liberals" have inexplicably abandoned the correct side of the >>argument. The fact that the conservatives are right may seem odd, but the >>behavior of the liberals is truly astonishing. > >Liberals? What Liberals? Clinton's certainly no liberal; >he's just a big-spending statist who likes to buy votes from >poor, middle-class, and yuppie voters rather than buying them >from defense contractors, not that he's above that. Well, I should have been more clear and said, "...what passes for a liberal these days." In any case, my opinion is that the WRONG airplane crashed a couple of days ago. <sigh!> Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Hackers invade DOJ web site
by Nick West 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:46 PM 8/18/96 -0700, you wrote: >> CNN online (http://www.cnn.com) is reporting a "breakin" by "hackers" >> to the DOJ web site. They don't elaborate exactly how thy did it. > >Did anyone save a copy of the altered web page? I would like to see >what the crackers did. > >Thanks. > > They showed a the page on CNN Headline News yesterday. They might show it sometime again today, stay tuned. Nick West nick(a)multipro.com Member of the National Wild Turkey Federation and The Libertarian Party of Tennessee http://members.tripod.com/~NWest/index.html PGP Fingerprint= F9 F7 92 D9 D3 0B 56 3E FA 2A 78 59 27 32 7D 6F Public key available on request.

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Re: Billy boy's satellites [Was - Floating DataHaven]
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:16 AM 8/19/96, Vipul Ved Prakash wrote: >> >> Vincent Cate wrote: >> Doesn't the low orbit part mean that the satellites will have a low life >> expectancy, meaning a new launch every couple of days? (where's Gerald >> Bull when you need him - oh yes, now I remember ...) LEO (Low Earth Orbit) is only relative to the main alternative placement for broadcast satellites: geostationary orbit, out in the Clarke Belt. LEO satellites are well above significant drag of the troposphere and are expected to remain in orbit far longer than their lifetimes as useful transponders. >The Iridium Project was pretty neat in this respect. I don't know what >is happenning with it as of now. It had some 230+ satellites, and some >smart routing techniques, if a satellite goes down. Actually, far fewer. The original number of satellites (not counting spares) was equal to the atomic number of iridium, hence the name (though maybe they altered the number of satellites to match the atomic number?). They later reduced the needed number by a few, but kept the name. An Alta Vista search on "iridium AND satellite" produces 1000 hits, so there's plent of information out there. There are also two major competing systems, also not yet deployed. One is the Microsoft-McCaw Cellular project, another is being done by an aerospace company working with Qualcomm, or a subsidiary. Again, the Web should produce the information for anyone interested. Which of the three (and maybe more) systems will actually get deployed, and which will succeed in the market, is an interesting question. There's some obvious crypto/GAK/New World Order issues: many countries may not care for a communications system which allows citizen-units or enemy agents to make phone calls from the middle of the Kalahari desert or from within the jungles of Burma. (The Israelis, for example, are insisting that all handheld units have Explosives Escrow, for detonation with appropriate official orders.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re:Why BlackNet *IS* a Data Haven
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:28 AM 8/19/96, Jim McCoy wrote: >Tim May writes: >> Without splitting too many semantic hairs about the precise definition of >> "data haven," let me examine some ways in which BlackNet behaves >> identically to a conventional data haven. > >I would be willing to concede the point if you would take a few seconds >to examine the issue of complete lack of persistence in BlackNet. There are various amounts of persistence, depending on which kind of "pool" is used: * Usenet newsgroups have a persistence of days to weeks, depending on one's particular site. This is enough for parties to find each other _if_ they are watching (or having agents watching). And of course Usenet archives are expected--Alta Vista and Deja News has Usenet articles going back several months in many cases. * Mailing list message pools (a la Cuperman) have an effectively infinite persistence, if parties archive the messages. * Web-based message pools, which to my knowledge have not been used yet, would have a persistence as long as the messages are archived...which could be very long. Rather than _persistence_, I'd say _access time_ or _latency_ is a more serious criticism of my approach. In contrast to a large library or bookstore, with access times of ~minutes, the access times for material on BlackNet may be ~days to ~weeks. Or, of course, "never." >Your descriptions of BlackNet as a data haven seem to be completely >based upon the presumption that an anonymous contact service and contract >exchange is the functional equivalent to a data haven. Here are a few >reasons why I would disagree: > >As a publisher of "naughty bits" I do not have the ability to just toss >data up and assume that it will be there when someone wants it. I am forced >to continuously monitor the appropriate newsgroups to find messages from >people asking me to post the blueprints to the orbital mind control lasers >or kiddie porn. I cannot put my data onto "the Net" with an expectation >that any arbitrary user will be able to get the bits one month later. To >maintain persistence I need to constantly repost my data, making it easier >for authorities to trace me through simple taffic analysis if nothing else. I grant that my version is not like a "Mega-Barnes-and-Noble" bookstore, with vast amounts of stuff available for browsing. It is more like a "stacks"-based library. (Many universities have lesser-used books, sometimes _all_ books, in "stacks," accessible only by qualified librarians, or by permission.) >> The classical data haven is closely identified with "place." To many >> people, they naturally assume "data haven" = a haven for data, a "harbor" >> (same IE root as haven) = a physical place. >> >> But is "place" important? > >No one has really claimed place is important, in fact the ideal data haven >has no physical existence whatsoever. This is a given. As a practical >matter it is a lot easier if you start off in a "place" because there are >fewer complications but this has never been a necessity. Some have focussed on "place," by focussing on ideas like offshore buoys, orbiting broadcasters, and, of course, on finding accomodating jurisdictions that will tolerate data havens in their midst. You and I may agree that data havens need to be virtual. I'm just proposing an architecture--and certainly not the final version!--that actually works. Others can suggest their own alternatives, or build on versions that are out there. >> A person in the U.S. seeking the Necronomicon posts a message to BlackNet >> (or any similar forum, using the same methods) asking for a copy of it, or >> offering to pay for it. (Whether the information is free or for a fee is >> not central to the idea.) This request is, of course, untraceable. >> >> Anyone, anywhere in the world, with a copy of this banned material on his >> or her private machines may see this request and respond, either giving the >> material away, or negotiating a fee. (As I said before, the absence of a >> robust digital cash system, bidirectionally untraceable, is a known >> limitation of all such systems.) > >Now you reveal the objection I had to BlackNet being a data haven. What if >only one person has a copy of this banned material? It may not be in this >publishers interest to have the data available to anyone for posting in >response to the query ("Information does not want to be free, it wants to >be expensive and liberated...") and some data is not widespread enough or of >interest to enough people to assume that multiple copies exist to those who >read BlackNet postings. Therefore the only way for a publisher to maintain >availability of their data is to constantly monitor the appropriate newsgroups >and republish for each request, persistence is maintained only through >eternal vigilence (much like liberty, only requiring a lot more effort :) What if only one person has a copy? Nothing in *my* concept of data haven says anything about information being free, or cheap, or widely available. Books aren't usually free, of course, so why should information be free The issue of what happens if someone buys an item and then republishes or redistributes it is, of course, orthogonal to the discussion here. It's a tough problem, and the basis of the "information wants to be free" aphorism. But not a key issue for differentiating forms of data havens, as I see things. >> It's a data haven. > >No, it is an anonymous contact service. To claim this is a data haven is >like claiming that the classified ads in a newspaper are the equivalent to >a mall; you could probably find the same goods if you looked long enough, but >there is a reason that manufacturers sell goods through stores rather than >just posting classified ads across the country. When one does not have the >time to check the classified ads, wants to goods from a reputable source, and >wants the goods in a timely fashion they will go to a shopping center. I agree with the "classified ads vs. shopping mall" distinction. In fact, it neatly summarizes the latency/availability issues. So be it. Until the "shopping mall" exists, I'll settle for the "classified ads." If BlackNet and similar systems function adequately as an anonymous classified ad system, this will be an improvement over what exists now, which is, of course, "nothing." --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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