December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Why the world needs privay protecting Ecash
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>> S.KOREA PROBES 15,000 PEOPLE OVER CREDIT CARD USE - South Korean > state prosecutors are probing 15,000 people for excessive use of > their credit cards overseas in a crackdown on lavish spending, a > prosecution official said on Thursday. [Reuters, 200 words] -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. Defeat the Demopublican Unity Party. Vote no on Clinton/Dole in November. Vote Harry Browne for President.

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Re: Twenty Bank Robbers -- Game theory:)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:46 PM 7/26/96, David Lesher wrote: >> >> >``Twenty cypherpunks robbed a bank.'' >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >I was careful choosing words. >> >> That was my reaction as well. I'd assume that if twenty cypherpunks >> rob a bank, either it's one of Eric's party games (:-), or else >> they probably conspired over the net to rob a bank by computer. > > >Will they ALL fit in Tim May's hot tub? This is _my_ game-theoretic solution to the puzzle: let the 20 robbers battle it out, kill each other, whatever, then invite the survivors over and get rid of them all, leaving me with the money. Though I've had to delete most of the discussion of this puzzle, some things come to mind: 1. Similarities with "the unexpected hanging" problem. (Briefly, a man is told he will be hung in the next 20 days. But out of sensitivity to his feelings, he will not be hung if he can predict that he'll be hung on the *next day*. The man points out that he cannot be hung on the 20th day, as if he was still alive on the 19th day, he'd know that the 20th day was the day of the hanging. Hence, no hanging on the 20th day. So there are 19 days left. But the same logic applies, and so on, backward. He says smugly "I can't be hanged at all." So he is surprises when he is hanged on the 13th day.) 2. Inadequate accounting for or weighting of the "costs" of being killed. (I think others, including Jim Bell that I saw, mentioned this.) An abstract game theory problem is often hard to find a stable solution for, and is all the more difficult when the stakes are so high and yet are treated "abstractly." 3. The _iterated_ (repeated) form should have different results. I initially dismissed the posed problem, but the dozens of responses suggest that folks *do* find this stuff interesting. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Produce 7 Hertz Frequency
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:26 PM 7/26/96, The Deviant wrote: >> What does "sin" have to do with the number 7? Oh, you must mean the movie >> "Se7en," in which the Se7en deadly sins were central to the plot. I get it. >> The seven deadly sins are the seven deadly hurts. >> > >Gee... or mabey he's refering to "sin" as the common abreviation of "sine" >as in "sine wave". > > --Deviant ??? I suggest some people on this list are losing track of the English language. Get a clue. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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No Subject
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As previously discussed, I am announcing a Greater Chicago Area CypherPunks Physical Meet. The date is Saturday, 3 August 1996 at or around 4 p.m. at Ye Olde Saint Andrews Pub, 5938 N. Broadway, Chicago Il. Instructions are at the end of this post. Things _I_ would like to discuss, of course, this is me, so it is very amenable to changer: 1) Setting up a Chicago Area Remailer, not simply running a single remailer on a single account, but trying to go one better. 2) Discuss the possibility of a public event to spread the word about cryptography/encryption. 3) Discuss the next meeting. The reasons for selecting St. Andrews Inn: 1) It is relatively empty. 2) It has Food (Supposedly real good shepard's pie, made from real shepards(I asked)), Drink (Cider, and they know what snakebite is), and Non-alcoholic beverages. 3) It is easy (relatively) to get to. To get to St. Andrews Inn: By Car: Take Lake Shore Drive North until the LSD ends. Go North on Sheridan (right turn off of LSD) to Thorndale (About 5900 North) Turn left on Thorndale (heading west) and drive to Broadway (About 4 or 5 blocks) Park. St. Andrews is on the North West Corner of the intersection, under the green awning. By El: Take the Red Line (Howard/Dan Ryan) to Thorndale Go west 1/2 block from the El, This is Broadway St. Andrews is on the North West Corner of the intersection, under the green awning. I will try to have a map up at http://www.encodex.com/cypherpunks later today. Petro, Christopher C. petro(a)suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow(a)smoke.suba.com

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Re: Nerds, Dykes, Niggers, Dweebs, Fags, Bimbos, and Geeks
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > At 6:40 PM 7/26/96, Bill Frantz wrote: > >At 9:09 AM 7/26/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > >>... I hate the term "nerd," as I hate the > >>names "dweeb," "geek," "jerk," etc. Believe me, anyone who thinks being > >>called a "nerd" is complimentary, or anyone who labels himself as a "geek," > >>is probably one who would call himself a "nigger," or a "queer.") [...] > >People with pride in themselves and what they do can make their detractors > >eat their insults. We should make it clear that "nerd," "dweeb," "geek," > >"jerk," etc. are where the money is. We should turn them into terms of > >pride in what we are and what we do. > Maybe it's a generational thing (though Bill is as old as me, I think), but > terms of insult are just that. The biggest users seem to be clueless > journalists, like blonde bimbette Sue Hutchinson of the "S.J. Mercury > News," who writes repeatedly of "nerdfests," and "geek conventions." (Hey, > maybe womyn need to reclaim the terms "bimbo" and "airhead"?) [..] > --Tim May Isn't it a little strange that Tim was on the exact opposite side of this argument when I started a thread titled: "CypherPUNK considered harmful" ... in which I argued that we needed a better name for folks like us? Peter Trei trei(a)process.com [I'm off to the Security WG of the W3C in Redmond, so I won't see replies until Wednesday.]

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RE: Schelling Points, Rights, and Game Theory--Part II
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:09 AM 7/26/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >... I hate the term "nerd," as I hate the >names "dweeb," "geek," "jerk," etc. Believe me, anyone who thinks being >called a "nerd" is complimentary, or anyone who labels himself as a "geek," >is probably one who would call himself a "nigger," or a "queer.") I must disagree with Tim on this issue. Back in the dark ages, before the revolution, the Yankee was an insult used by British sympathisers to describe the hick American revolutionaries. The Americans adopted it as a matter of pride and threw it back in their detractors face. Homosexuals are doing the same thing with the them "queer". When I went to Dan Farmer and Wietse Venema's class in Internet Security, Dan taught the class wearing a tank-top which said "QUEER" across the front. People with pride in themselves and what they do can make their detractors eat their insults. We should make it clear that "nerd," "dweeb," "geek," "jerk," etc. are where the money is. We should turn them into terms of pride in what we are and what we do. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Cave ab homine unius lebri | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | [Beware the man of one | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | book] - Anonymous Latin | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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CandleWeb V1.1 - Web client, "secure E interpreter"
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I doubt this is going to become a mass-market phenomenon, but some people seemed to be interested in E. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:06:01 +0200 From: Gunnar R|nning <gunnar(a)candleweb.no> To: win-request(a)metrics.com Subject: CandleWeb V1.1 - Web client with interactive animation support CandleWeb AS is pleased to announce version 1.1 of the CandleWeb client. The client is freely available for Windows 95 and X11. Precompiled versions exist for Windows 95, Linux, Sunos 4 and Irix. CandleWeb is a powerful and easy way to create interactive animations and applications for use on the Web. The CandleWeb client is an interpreter for the language E(pronounced like "awe" in english). CandleWeb features include : - - Vector graphics objects to reduce bandwidth requirements and simplify animation development. - - Bitmap graphics(GIF and JPEG). - - Sound (MIDI and WAV). - - User-interaction objects. - - Web-protocols support. http(GET/POST), ftp, and file URLs are supported. Access to file URLs is by default prohibited due to security considerations. - - Portability and architecture independence. - - Security, interpreted programs is executed in a safe environment. The client has builtin damage-repair and double-buffering to achieve high performance graphics. Animations are easier to create in E than in traditional languages, due to the declarative nature of the E graphicssystem. AweThor is an authoring tool for CandleWeb that simplifies the task of creating animations and graphics in E. AweThor is available as shareware for $100(US). Download the client from : <URL:ftp://thor.candleweb.no/pub/dist/> Find more information on : <URL:http://www.candleweb.no/> New features in this release of CandleWeb : - - Composite objects. The language now has support for user-defined composite objects. - - Support for dynamic loading of libraries and automatic revision control to store library copies locally. - - A new parser written in PCCTS has allowed us to clean up the language, and bring it somewhat closer to the C programming language in syntax. - - Global variables. - - Local function declarations. - - Regular expressions, through the new function regmatch. - - Support for MIDI and WAV on Win95 and Unix platforms using the Unix Sound Standard(USS). Linux has support for USS. Can play single or continuous sounds asynchronously. - - Better color support for X11 : 1. 24-bits support. 2. On PseudoColor it does not install a private colormap by default anymore. 3. Use the -perfect option to install a private colormap. 4. When -perfect is specified it uses a dithering technique to achieve 2048 virtual colors. - - HTTP post is now supported through the function post(). - - Other new builtin functions : optimizeObjects, contentType, substr, getWindowSize, read, write, and link. - - New functionality in the translation attribute : Motion(for motion of the mousecursor), ResizeWindow, Transparent (to send matching events onwards to the next inputarea). This release also include number of bug-fixes , and some speed optimizations to the interpreter. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBMfkkwZNcNyVVy0jxAQGhHQIAwYjS30G7yTqKFrk9L3EP5hX3K2+y2LAK gYOwTVqtN5v+94kBhKqfNogwNM2j/ku5crAWr10jpskuTUFKpF0sLw== =SrQb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Twenty Bank Robbers -- Game theory:)
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 AM 7/26/96 -0400, Clay Olbon II wrote: >jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> wrote: >>My previous answer was incomplete, of course. I continue to believe that >>the problem is unsolveable as stated, if for no other reason than the >>"weight" of the negative represented by dying is not stated. It's a VERY >>complex problem, unless there's some trick I'm not seeing. > >Jim is right. The problem with any optimization problem is when >unquantifiable negatives are included. The "classic" example of this is an >inventory problem. The optimal solution is minimal (or no) inventory, >however there are unquantifiable negatives that arise when a customer >cannot get his product when he wants it. I don't think the problem is that >complex if the negative is that you get no money rather than "you die". As >an aside, many game theory problems (possible including the simplified >version of this one) are solvable using linear programming (and no, that is >not writing C one line at a time ;-). It has been far too long since my >last game theory course to consider trying to set this problem up however >(I've found that I don't use either game theory or LP a whole lot in the >"real world" of engineering). Here is my best (currently!) guess at an APPROXIMATION of the solution. In order to avoid the indeterminacy of the weight of a death versus money, I assume that a solution can be found on the first proposal. (presumably, the first chooser is _motivated_ to find one, right?!?) This means that the 1st chooser must select a distribution that will make at least 50% happy. The first wild guess is that he's offer equal shares of the money to himself (#1) and the next nine (#2-#10). But the problem with that is that the higher-numbered people might feel inclined to defect, possibly figuring that by getting rid of the people before them, they could increase the size of their likely reward. Probably the solution is to offer those higher enough money so that they have no reason to defect. The amount that should be offered to each could be related to the maximum amount that person might reasonably be able to expect, if all of the people ahead of him in line had been eliminated. #1 and #2 can, at best, expect 1/10th of the reward each, #3 and #4 can expect 1/9th, #5 and #6 can expect 1/8th, #7 and #8 can expect 1/7, and finally #9 and #10 can expect 1/6. Of course, all this adds up to more than 1 (actually, 1627/1260), so the result must be normalized to bring the total amount offered down to "1". BTW, as extra "inducement" the people at the beginning of the line (2, 3, 4, etc) can agree and publicly announce that if anyone between 2 and 10 defects from this arrangement, he will be passed over in subsequent iterations of this process, selecting people starting from #11 and above in their place. Thus, the people between #1 and #10 are strongly motivated to go along with this arrangement from the beginning, particularly those near #10. Of course, this raises yet another possibility. Suppose #1 made an proposal like this: "The money is to be split equally among everybody who votes for this proposal." The high numbers (11-20) are motivated to vote for this, for fear that in the absense of such an agreement the low numbers would agree to split the pot without them. Likewise, the low numbers would be inclined to get an agreement rather than risk having their proposals rejected and them killed. Anyone who defects risks losing out on everything. (However, in order for proposals like this to be properly evaluated, it is necessary to establish certain issues, such as whether there's a secret ballot or not, etc. Also, even if the results of the ballot are not secret, are the votes revealed all at one time, or are the participants polled individually, and in what order. Can a participant adjust his vote according to the votes of another?) Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Distributed DES crack
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:28 PM 7/26/96 +0200, Remo Pini wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Date: Fri Jul 26 13:25:22 1996 >> At 10:30 7/23/96, Matt Blaze wrote: >> >> >My estimate is that an FPGA-based machine that can do a single DES key >> >every four months (eight months to exhaust the whole keyspace) could >> >be built with off-the-shelf stuff for comfortably under $50k (plus >> >labor, plus software development costs). A prototype board should >> cost >> >under $1000 and will help prove the concept and get a more accurate >> cost >> >estimate. I expect to build such a prototype machine myself, and, if >> it >> >works as I expect, maybe the whole thing. >> >> I am willing to financially contribute to the project. >> >> >If this were to be a card (via RS232 or PC-bus), thousands of people would >be able to copy it, once the development process is finished. -> You'd have >hardware that all those people could use for a distributed crack, the >building cost would be distributed also (<$100), only development would >have to be at one place (sponsored of course). Now, that would be a scary >thought for DES-fans! I've proposed that if it were done in this way, the circuit should be built external to a PC-clone or other computer, so that it can be easily tiled on a large pcb, in an "n by m" array. The reason is that if an individual cracker module were as simple and cheap as it should be, a person could easily want to run dozens if not hundreds of them. Communication would probably be done with a single serial data bus, with each module individually addressed. Due to the nature of the DES crack, communication would be rare, so it's likely that an ordinary '386 or '486-based computer could handle all the communication for a large number of such modules. I don't know if the figure of $10 thrown around for an FPGA is accurate, but if it is then a cost of $30 for each subsystem is probably doable, including pc board, assembly, and a few other components. A cost of $3000 for a 10-by-10 array seems reasonable to me, particularly since the throughput of each of those FPGA's ought to be at least 10x that of a general-purpose PC in this application. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: AP on Crypto Hearing
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:28 PM 7/26/96 +0000, John Young wrote: > 7-25-96. The Associated Press: > > Computer Codes May Aid Crime > >... > > But a top official at the National Security Agency -- whose > job is to break secret codes -- said the encryption "genie > is not out of the bottle." NSA Deputy Director William > Crowell said encryption won't be widely used until it is > marketed and sold, with support to help people use it. True, crypto won't be widely used until it is marketed and sold. Only the 4 horsemen will have it. Terrorists with their government supporters will have the support and training. So will high level drug dealers and money launderers (mostly the same people). Child pornographers will learn quickly. Militias already have the infrastructure to teach military techniques and some of them know about comsec. Soon all of them will. Face it, the 5 horsemen won't have a problem. The 4 horsemen are a red herring. The issue is domestic surveillance. The bottom line of the issue is: Do we get end-to-end secure telephones before or after the telecom industry/taxpayers have to make the investment to provide law enforcement with access to 1% of all the calls in the country? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Cave ab homine unius lebri | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | [Beware the man of one | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | book] - Anonymous Latin | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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