December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Style gettting in the way of clear reporting
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Believe it or not, this has some very slight cypherpunk relevance. (Gasp) At 10:06 PM 7/7/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > Sadly, simple expository prose must be considered to be too boring, too banal. > > (Actually, were only a few writers doing this, it might be mildy tolerable. > Speaking for myself, that is. But so _many_ "cyberspace journalists" are > doing bad pastiches of famous stylists that the reportage is being lost in > the noise. When news media were concentrated into fewer and fewer hands during the twentieth century, the appearance of neutrality, objectivity, and authoritativeness became a major selling point, and so media adopted a tone and manner of neutrality, with an accompanying "just-the-facts" style, though in reality they became far less neutral Now that everyone can grab the megaphone, people are not so worried about objectivity. If something is unfair to Nazis or blacks or evil polluting capitalists, they know they will hear about it from the Nazis, the blacks or the evil polluting capitalists. As a result, people no longer value the superficial appearance of neutrality and objectivity. Suddenly colorful and openly biased reporting has become popular. This has led to some people engaging in florid excesses of colorful style and concocting totally phony attitudes., just as when word processing programs first gained the capability to handle a wide variety of fonts, some people produced memos that looked like ransom notes. Soon enough they will settle down. English prose was at its greatest in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, when many voices could be heard, and some of them were on the florid side. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: Style gettting in the way of clear reporting
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 AM 7/8/96, James A. Donald wrote: >When news media were concentrated into fewer and fewer hands during >the twentieth century, the appearance of neutrality, objectivity, >and authoritativeness became a major selling point, and so media >adopted a tone and manner of neutrality, with an accompanying >"just-the-facts" style, though in reality they became far less neutral An interesting point. You are probably right that journalism is becoming more florid as "amateurs" flood the market. However, I don't quite buy the concentration argument, as things were pretty concentrated in the Hearst era, and the explosion of magazines in the past few decades has not been as concentrated. (In any case, these are hard things to quantify without more research, which I for one am unlikely to pursue.) >Now that everyone can grab the megaphone, people are not so worried >about objectivity. If something is unfair to Nazis or blacks or evil >polluting capitalists, they know they will hear about it from the >Nazis, the blacks or the evil polluting capitalists. > >As a result, people no longer value the superficial appearance of >neutrality and objectivity. Suddenly colorful and openly biased >reporting has become popular. I still think of "The Wall Street Journal" and "The Economist," two of my favorites, as being _careful_ in their reporting (careful is different from unbiased). But my main focus in this thread was on the _styles_, and this I think is more explained by faddishness. And advertising. To get "mind space," as with "shelf space," the packaging must entice, fool, and trick the reader. >This has led to some people engaging in florid excesses of colorful >style and concocting totally phony attitudes., just as when word >processing programs first gained the capability to handle a wide >variety of fonts, some people produced memos that looked like >ransom notes. Yes, and many of the newsletters we're seeing--as many are cc:ed or forwarded to our list--are the kissing cousins of "zines." Same faux style, same emphasis on "flash" over substance. (Not all of them of course.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: more about the usefulness of PGP
by Steve Reid 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> make sure that you are protected from replay attacks. > a good idea would be to make the server to send cookies by request of > the remote user (you can limit the number of people to whom the server > sends cookies) and make sure that messages without the latest cookie > will NOT be executed. A simpler solution would be for the user to number each message. He would send message #1, then message #2, then #3, etc... Skipping some numbers should not be a problem. The server would just have to keep track of the most recently recieved message number, and only accept messages with a larger number. The user would also have to keep track... It would be very easy to do; the user could number each message based on date and time. ===================================================================== | Steve Reid - SysAdmin & Pres, EDM Web (http://www.edmweb.com/) | | Email: steve(a)edmweb.com Home Page: http://www.edmweb.com/steve/ | | PGP (2048/9F317269) Fingerprint: 11C89D1CD67287E68C09EC52443F8830 | | -- Disclaimer: JMHO, YMMV, TANSTAAFL, IANAL. -- | ===================================================================:)

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"portal"} = "<hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> cpunk pgp hash"; $remailer{"alumni"} = "<hal(a)alumni.caltech.edu> cpunk pgp hash"; $remailer{"c2"} = "<remail(a)c2.org> eric pgp hash reord"; $remailer{"penet"} = "<anon(a)anon.penet.fi> penet post"; $remailer{"flame"} = "<remailer(a)flame.alias.net> cpunk mix pgp. hash latent cut post reord"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"ecafe"} = "<cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org> cpunk mix"; $remailer{"amnesia"} = "<amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ksub"; $remailer{'alpha'} = '<alias(a)alpha.c2.org> alpha pgp'; $remailer{'nymrod'} = '<nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"lead"} = "<mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"treehole"} = "<remailer(a)mockingbird.alias.net> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"nemesis"} = "<remailer(a)meaning.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"vegas"} = "<remailer(a)vegas.gateway.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"ncognito"} = "<ncognito(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> mix cpunk pgp hash latent"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (c2 alpha) (flame replay) (alumni portal) Use "premail -getkeys pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu" to get PGP keys for the remailers. Fingering this address works too. Note: The remailer list now includes information for the alpha nymserver. Last update: Mon 8 Jul 96 6:48:30 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- alumni hal(a)alumni.caltech.edu *+*#+*#-*### 3:36 100.00% replay remailer(a)replay.com **+*******+* 4:23 99.99% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca ******** 16:45 99.98% c2 remail(a)c2.org +-++++++-+++ 46:47 99.97% nemesis remailer(a)meaning.com +*********** 17:25 99.97% nymrod nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com #+#-##*##### 2:49 99.97% lead mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu ++++++++++++ 38:37 99.96% vegas remailer(a)vegas.gateway.com *___.+#*+#*+ 4:34:27 99.95% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com .------+++++ 5:42:01 99.92% flame remailer(a)flame.alias.net .-++---+--++ 3:59:13 99.91% haystack haystack(a)holy.cow.net +###+#* #+## 3:07 99.80% lucifer lucifer(a)dhp.com +++ -+++++++ 48:41 99.78% ncognito ncognito(a)rigel.cyberpass.net .__.___-... 24:13:12 99.68% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com ----.----.- 7:38:28 99.39% amnesia amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com ---- -----+ 3:42:52 99.31% alpha alias(a)alpha.c2.org +++*****++++ 38:39 99.29% penet anon(a)anon.penet.fi ...--....- 27:11:56 99.00% ecafe cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org --##* ### 1:26:57 98.73% portal hfinney(a)shell.portal.com #+*####- ## 3:52 98.05% treehole remailer(a)mockingbird.alias.net +++- --+ + 2:18:51 97.06% exon remailer(a)remailer.nl.com **+**** ** 4:35 95.60% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Hurricane Bertha hitting Offshore Information Services
by Vincent Cate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hurricane Bertha is almost certainly going to hit Anguilla, where Offshore Information Services is located. It will probably be at the strongest about 9 am Eastern time Monday morning. This is still not a really big hurricane, so we will not get anything like the trouble we had with Luis last year. Still, there is some chance that we will be offline at some time. If so please understand why. I have about 8 hours of battery backup. If power is out at our location for longer than that I will relocate the server to another location, as I did after Luis. There is little chance that power will go out everywhere for longer than 8 hours. There is a good chance that we get through this without going down, but I just wanted to let people know what our status is. Be patient if sometime tomorrow you can not get to our site. -- Vince Cate Offshore Information Services, Ltd. Anguilla http://online.offshore.com.ai/

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Re: Style gettting in the way of clear reporting
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:38 PM 7/7/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >At 12:40 AM 7/8/96, James A. Donald wrote: > >>When news media were concentrated into fewer and fewer hands during >>the twentieth century, the appearance of neutrality, objectivity, >>and authoritativeness became a major selling point, and so media >>adopted a tone and manner of neutrality, with an accompanying >>"just-the-facts" style, though in reality they became far less neutral > >An interesting point. You are probably right that journalism is becoming >more florid as "amateurs" flood the market. However, I don't quite buy the >concentration argument, as things were pretty concentrated in the Hearst >era, and the explosion of magazines in the past few decades has not been as >concentrated. (In any case, these are hard things to quantify without more >research, which I for one am unlikely to pursue.) It is probably true that journalism was more concentrated in the late 1800's and early 1900's, since it consisted of a few newspapers. However, I think a good argument could be made that because government was dramatically smaller than today, that concentration was not nearly as detrimental as it would be today under similar circumstances. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Cypherpunk Enquirer
by enquirer＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally lost the tail somewhere around the docks, and slowly worked my way into Chiba, watching my back all the way. I dumped the chip in the saddlebag of a bike messenger who almost ran me down in front of the Jarre, figured he'd get a good scare out of a midnight visit from the NSA goons who'd been using it to follow my tracks out of Tokyo. They weren't going to like the way I rearranged the facial features of their buddy who tried to waylay me outside of the pachinko parlor. One last glance behind me, and I ducked into the Chatsubo. She was waiting for me there, a vision of pure lust in a red mini-dress with cleavage all the way down to her waist and legs all the way down to the floor. I tried to stay casual as I sauntered over to the bar next to her. "Vodka martini. Shaken, not stirred," I said to Ratz, the regular bartender. Ratz slammed the drink down on the counter in front of me. "Shaken enough for you, Dick?" he said. "Dick. Nice name." She had a voice that sounded like wind blowing through pine trees on a hot summer night. Low. Breathy. Wet. "He's being an asshole. Dick's American slang for a PI. Mind if I join you?" "Suit yourself." I pulled up a stool, surreptitiously slipping her PGP signature into my PDA. It checked out. Good. Now if she just had the merchandise. I hadn't come 5,000 miles just to check out her pectoral development. I leaned over close, trying not to stare at that pair of 38Ds. "You got anything else you'd like to show me?" Her emerald green eyes bored into mine, and then slowly dropped down to the level of my zipper. She slowly slid the hem of her dress up her creamy thigh, just high enough so that I could see that she wasn't wearing any panties. And there it was. Tucked into the top of her silk stocking, just next to the black lace garter. "That floppy's got the source to Declan McCullagh and Ian Goldberg's crack of the Surfwatch database. Worth a small fortune to anyone with the cojones to spam a sample to K12." She licked her lips like she was getting ready to go down on a double dip of Cherry Garcia. "Would you like to come up to my room and take a closer look?" (OK, Nobody, knock it off. You got rid of Tim May three paragraphs ago. Let's get on with it, huh?) (Shit, boss, just trying to have a little fun ... ) THE CYPHERPUNK ENQUIRER "Encyphering minds want to know." Fresh on the heels of the Chicago Bull's triumph in the NBA finals, Michael Jordan has announced the release of his new signature Internet encryption product, Michael Jordan's Awfully Good Snake Oil. Based on a tried and tested but proprietary algorithm, AGSO is guaranteed to provide superior 40 bit encryption of all important Internet traffic. Michael himself personally guarantees that AGSO will integrate perfectly with the Eudora mailer, and used no 14 year old Nicaraguan programmers like that inferior Kathy Lee Gifford shit, and no feminine frou-frou like with Liz Taylor's Black Perl. Jim Bell was injured today when a mail exploder went off in his hands. Doctors at the Bethesda Naval Hospital reported that the mail exploder had been upgraded from critical to stable condition and was resting comfortably in a private room. After a visit from fellow patient Louis Freeh, the mail exploder commented, "It's surprising how well he's learned to talk through that proctoscope." Matt Blaze has finally come clean, and agreed to provide a partial transcript of the NSA's famous "If you knew what we know, you'd support key escrow" presentation, which according to Mr. Blaze starts out, "If you knew about the video tapes we have of you with that 16 year old blonde at the Motel Six ... " Due to continuing controversy over the Michael Jackson case, and bowing to extreme election year pressure from the religious right, President Clinton today announced a new policy to prevent child abuse in the music industry. The Rock Musicians Penis Escrow Bill would require all musicians selling more than 10,000 CDs to file photographs of their (presumably tumescent) genitals with the FBI so that they could be examined and identified in the event of accusations of lascivious behavior with minors. Leon Panetta was reportedly flying to Chicago for discussions with the presently retired Plaster Casters, hoping to garner their support for the bill, while the Wall Street Journal announced an investigation into rumors that Chelsea has a standing request with the FBI for multiple copies. The Libertarian Party immediately announced its whole-hearted support for the plan after Jim Ray snuck the plank into the party platform when no one was looking. Tim May's experimental plan to reduce the noise level on the Cypherpunk Mailing List was declared a resounding success after massive doses of Ritalin actually caused Perry Metzger to apologize for flaming a clueless AOLer. In related news, AwakenToMe has finally figured out protected mode, and has announced the first Pentium condom that actually fits over the cooling fan. Sameer Parkesh announced that c2.org is now hosting an "Unanimizer" web browser, which makes web servers think that the entire population of the WhoWhere search engine has just accessed their pages. Next in the Enquirer: Bob Dole on the dangers of the abacus virus.

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Re: [RANT] Giving Mind Control Drugs to Children
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I sent Tim's original post to a psychiatrist friend, who responded: Ritalin is a lifesaver for a small % of children who suffer from a condition characterized by hyperactivity and poor attention span. These kids (usually boys) may be bright as hell but fail in school because they can't sit still or pay attention; they get made fun of, they behave badly, get depressed, it's a mess. Some of them (milder cases) respond to behavior modification therapies which involve training of the parents and teachers to have realistic expectation, recognize the specific difficulties the kids have, set them goals, reward them for achieving them, give them disincentives for misbehaving etc. Others really do need Ritalin. It's a relief not just for the parents and teachers but for the kids to be able to sit still and pay attention and learn and succeed and be liked etc. Most of them grow out of it by their mid-teens. However, there are many more kids on Ritalin than there need to be; some teachers pressure parents to get kids put on it... I know one very bright little girl who's bored out of her mind in school, the school refuses to move her up a grade or give her more challenging work to do, instead complain that she is not paying attention and suggested that she be put on Ritalin... mother was furious. Some of the kids who use foul language (a very small %) have Tourette's disease, and also need medicine (a different one)... by and large the politically correct thing is sometimes to label a kid as sick rather than bad or spoiled, this is probably why drugs are over-used. But we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater! By the way, some old people who are severely depressed after a stroke also do well with Ritalin and don't respond to any other antidepressants... Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://mahavir.doe.ernet.in/~pinaward/arun.htm The protestors of Tiananmen Square will be back. Next time, the battle will be fought in cyberspace, where the students have the more powerful tanks...

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Cypherpunk Enquirer
by enquirer＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally lost the tail somewhere around the docks, and slowly worked my way into Chiba, watching my back all the way. I dumped the chip in the saddlebag of a bike messenger who almost ran me down in front of the Jarre, figured he'd get a good scare out of a midnight visit from the NSA goons who'd been using it to follow my tracks out of Tokyo. They weren't going to like the way I rearranged the facial features of their buddy who tried to waylay me outside of the pachinko parlor. One last glance behind me, and I ducked into the Chatsubo. She was waiting for me there, a vision of pure lust in a red mini-dress with cleavage all the way down to her waist and legs all the way down to the floor. I tried to stay casual as I sauntered over to the bar next to her. "Vodka martini. Shaken, not stirred," I said to Ratz, the regular bartender. Ratz slammed the drink down on the counter in front of me. "Shaken enough for you, Dick?" he said. "Dick. Nice name." She had a voice that sounded like wind blowing through pine trees on a hot summer night. Low. Breathy. Wet. "He's being an asshole. Dick's American slang for a PI. Mind if I join you?" "Suit yourself." I pulled up a stool, surreptitiously slipping her PGP signature into my PDA. It checked out. Good. Now if she just had the merchandise. I hadn't come 5,000 miles just to check out her pectoral development. I leaned over close, trying not to stare at that pair of 38Ds. "You got anything else you'd like to show me?" Her emerald green eyes bored into mine, and then slowly dropped down to the level of my zipper. She slowly slid the hem of her dress up her creamy thigh, just high enough so that I could see that she wasn't wearing any panties. And there it was. Tucked into the top of her silk stocking, just next to the black lace garter. "That floppy's got the source to Declan McCullagh and Ian Goldberg's crack of the Surfwatch database. Worth a small fortune to anyone with the cojones to spam a sample to K12." She licked her lips like she was getting ready to go down on a double dip of Cherry Garcia. "Would you like to come up to my room and take a closer look?" (OK, Nobody, knock it off. You got rid of Tim May three paragraphs ago. Let's get on with it, huh?) (Shit, boss, just trying to have a little fun ... ) THE CYPHERPUNK ENQUIRER "Encyphering minds want to know." Fresh on the heels of the Chicago Bull's triumph in the NBA finals, Michael Jordan has announced the release of his new signature Internet encryption product, Michael Jordan's Awfully Good Snake Oil. Based on a tried and tested but proprietary algorithm, AGSO is guaranteed to provide superior 40 bit encryption of all important Internet traffic. Michael himself personally guarantees that AGSO will integrate perfectly with the Eudora mailer, and used no 14 year old Nicaraguan programmers like that inferior Kathy Lee Gifford shit, and no feminine frou-frou like with Liz Taylor's Black Perl. Jim Bell was injured today when a mail exploder went off in his hands. Doctors at the Bethesda Naval Hospital reported that the mail exploder had been upgraded from critical to stable condition and was resting comfortably in a private room. After a visit from fellow patient Louis Freeh, the mail exploder commented, "It's surprising how well he's learned to talk through that proctoscope." Matt Blaze has finally come clean, and agreed to provide a partial transcript of the NSA's famous "If you knew what we know, you'd support key escrow" presentation, which according to Mr. Blaze starts out, "If you knew about the video tapes we have of you with that 16 year old blonde at the Motel Six ... " Due to continuing controversy over the Michael Jackson case, and bowing to extreme election year pressure from the religious right, President Clinton today announced a new policy to prevent child abuse in the music industry. The Rock Musicians Penis Escrow Bill would require all musicians selling more than 10,000 CDs to file photographs of their (presumably tumescent) genitals with the FBI so that they could be examined and identified in the event of accusations of lascivious behavior with minors. Leon Panetta was reportedly flying to Chicago for discussions with the presently retired Plaster Casters, hoping to garner their support for the bill, while the Wall Street Journal announced an investigation into rumors that Chelsea has a standing request with the FBI for multiple copies. The Libertarian Party immediately announced its whole-hearted support for the plan after Jim Ray snuck the plank into the party platform when no one was looking. Tim May's experimental plan to reduce the noise level on the Cypherpunk Mailing List was declared a resounding success after massive doses of Ritalin actually caused Perry Metzger to apologize for flaming a clueless AOLer. In related news, AwakenToMe has finally figured out protected mode, and has announced the first Pentium condom that actually fits over the cooling fan. Sameer Parkesh announced that c2.org is now hosting an "Unanimizer" web browser, which makes web servers think that the entire population of the WhoWhere search engine has just accessed their pages. Next in the Enquirer: Bob Dole on the dangers of the abacus virus.

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Re: The Net and Terrorism
by Arun Mehta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 19:52 02/07/96 -0500, John Deters wrote: >Even so, there are a couple of problems with even attempting "to take away >the root causes", not the least of which is the Constitutionally protected >right to free speech. I am allowed to teach my kid to hate anyone for any >reason. I can blame this or that group for this set of troubles, and that >the best way to deal with this is not only to scare them away, but to kill >as many of them as possible. It may be morally repugnant, but it is >protected speech. I think we've all been exposed to awful teaching in some aspects of our upbringing, but experience taught us otherwise. I love the anarchist poster that says, "We are the people whom our parents used to warn us about." Just because you were taught hate, doesn't mean you won't outgrow it. My mother was active in the freedom struggle against the British, and told me enough horror stories that I grew up hating them. But once I met some perfectly decent specimens, it evaporated. If the hate persists, there is likely to be reinforcement in the form of injustices, further bad experiences, etc. India is a large, diverse country with lots of injustice, poverty and other problems. When we analyze what breeds terrorism, we find aspects such as: - Severe neglect by the government (i.e. problems keep getting worse): For instance, the north east (which is east of Bangladesh, and has a long history of militant opposition) had to agitate for a long time to even get a railway line to connect them to the rest of the country. - Meddling by politicians: in Punjab, there was a Sikh regional party that was quite strong. To erode its popular base, Indira Gandhi encouraged the fundamentalists on its right. Similarly, Rajiv Gandhi's government helped train the Tamil LTTE. Both paid for these blunders with their lives, at the hands of the very groups they had once tried to foster. - Disenfranchisement: In Kashmir, most elections were rigged, as the central government pretty much admits now. Interestingly, some of the leaders of the terrorists were polling agents at the time of the previous elections, and were quite disgusted at what they saw. >The countries that sponsor terrorists have not been noted for their >successful educational systems. And they certainly are not going to listen >to Western discussions on how best to solve their "problems". No, but give the people the conviction that they can get their problems redressed legally, that they can win political power peacefully, and basically not let problems fester for so long that all trust in government is lost, and people will be far less likely to take to arms. Phoolan Devi (seen "Bandit Queen"? Great movie) was a dacoit, supposedly responsible for serious massacres. She went to jail, now she is an elected member of the federal Parliament. That is a great message to send to the poor and deprived. The cynic in me sees this as a way of depriving the poor suffering masses of their leaders, by co-opting them into the ruling elite. But there is no shortage of followers eager and willing to take their place. >The U.S. has a level of tolerance for diversity that I >only recently came to >appreciate. We hosted a foreign exchange student from Scotland (hardly >culture shock to him), but he surprised me when he commented on how >surprised he was that different groups of people were mixed together I've had a similar experience. I was part of the Indian delegation to a couple of Amnesty International International Council meetings. In this organisation, multiracialism and multiculturalism are heavily promoted. But if you looked at delegations from Europe, even from countries with sizable racial minorities, they were typically all-white. The US delegation, on the other hand, had blacks, different kinds of Asians, Hispanics... and not by design -- the US section leadership is highly "mixed", so they did not have to think about multiracialism, it just happened. Of course, given the "melting pot" ethos in the US, this is hardly surprising. However, every society has its blind spots. Communism is a real US phobia. The way you treat puny Cuba I find truly amazing. Arun Mehta Phone +91-11-6841172, 6849103 amehta(a)cpsr.org http://mahavir.doe.ernet.in/~pinaward/arun.htm The protestors of Tiananmen Square will be back. Next time, the battle will be fought in cyberspace, where the students have the more powerful tanks...

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