December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

AST II Conference
by Dave Banisar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Panel suggestions are always welcome -d ------- Preliminary Conference Announcement ADVANCED SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES II Sponsored by Privacy International Electronic Privacy Information Center September 16, 1996 Citadel Ottawa Hotel and Convention Centre Ottawa, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rapid evolution of technology is leading to the creation of a seamless web of surveillance across much of the world. Powerful technologies originally developed for the military are being adopted by law enforcement and civilian agencies, and private companies to monitor entire populations. This has been further fueled by the end of the Cold War and increasing demands for greater bureaucratic efficiency. Existing laws and regulations have failed to keep up with these developments. This one day conference will examine a range of advanced surveillance technologies and their impact on privacy and other civil liberties. It will explore the process of planning and implementation of the technologies, their operating conditions, and the people and organizations responsible for them. The conference will also examine possible technical, regulatory and legal responses. The conference will also address in detail the findings of Privacy International's "Big Brother Incorporated" report which examined the international trade in surveillance technology and the involvement of the arms industry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PARTIAL LIST OF SPEAKERS Phil Agre, University of California, San Diego Dave Banisar, Electronic Privacy Information Center Colin Bennett, University of Victoria Simon Davies, London School of Economics & Director, Privacy International Wayne Madsen, Author, Handbook of Personal Data Protection Bruce Schneier, Counterpane Systems & Author, Applied Cryptography CONFERENCE SUBJECTS * Artificial Intelligence Systems * Biometric Identification * Digital Cash * Information Superhighways * Information Warfare * Infrared and Passive Millimeter Wave Detectors * Intelligent Transportation Systems * Other New Technologies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MORE INFORMATION More information on the conference will be available at the Privacy International mailing list at pi-news(a)privacy.org (subject: subscribe) or at the PI Home Page at http://www.privacy.org/pi/conference/ottawa/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOTEL The Conference will take place at Ottawa Citadel Hotel in Ottawa, Canada. A block of rooms has been reserved at the hotel at a discounted rate of CAN $81.00/night for a single $91/night for a double. The hotel should be contacted directly for reservations, mentioning the AST II Conference to get the special rates and early reservation is recommended. The address is Ottawa Citadel Hotel, 101 Lyon St., Ottawa, Canada K1R 5T9, attention reservations, fax 613-237-2351, phone 613-237-3600. In North America you can call toll free at 1-800-567-3600. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- OTHER EVENTS THAT WEEK There are several other conferences in Ottawa that week. On Tuesday, September 17, Industry Canada will be sponsoring a one day Symposium and Demonstration of privacy enhancing technologies. On September 18 - 20, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada will be hosting the 18th International Privacy and Data Protection Conference. Contact: 613-995-2410 or email jroy(a)nstn.ca. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- REGISTRATION Registration Fees [] Standard - $250 CAN ($175 US) [] Non-profit organizations/Educational - $125 CAN ($75 US) Information Name: ___________________________________________________________ Organization: ______________________________________________________ Address: _________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Phone/Fax: _________________________________________________________ Electronic Mail:_____________________________________________________ Credit card Number/Expiration Date: _________________________________ (Do Not Email!) Fax Registration form and credit card number to +1 202.547.5482 Send Check or Money Order in $US made out to Privacy International to: Privacy International Washington Office 666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301 Washington, DC 20003 USA 1-202-544-9240 (phone) 1-202-547-5482 (fax) pi(a)privacy.org(email) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Subject: AST II Conference _________________________________________________________________________ David Banisar (Banisar(a)epic.org) * 202-544-9240 (tel) Electronic Privacy Information Center * 202-547-5482 (fax) 666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301 * HTTP://www.epic.org Washington, DC 20003 * ftp/gopher/wais cpsr.org

1 0

test
by an616864＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

test --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse(a)anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help(a)anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin(a)anon.penet.fi

1 0

Reputations
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:09 PM 5/15/96, Steve Reid wrote: >Another problem with reputations is that people are stuck until they get a >good one. A bad rep can always start over. In fact, a person/company can >look perfectly nice, but use a different identity for dirty work. Sure. And they do this today (use cut-outs or subcontractors to limit reputational damage or liability). >Naturally, you'd only trust dealings that involve a "nice" identity. Not necessarily. Many people play the numbers, implicitly trusting the Mafia to pay off on bets they win. (Many don't think the Mafia has a very "nice" identity, but your mileage may vary.) In fact, nearly all of the alleged problems with anonymous systems, especially the issues of defections, trust, expectation of payoff, etc., have parallels in other "extra-legal" situations. For example, the Mafia and other extra-legal or criminal operations. Do they sometimes defect (welsh)? Sure. Do they sometimes screw over the little guy? Sure. Do people trust them just enough to keep dealing with them voluntarily? Sure. (Before anyone mentions it, there are of course cases where people are forced to deal with criminal gangs nonvoluntarily, such as with shakedowns, hijackings of trucks, etc. But a large fraction of the dealings with the Mafia, Jamaican gangs, Russian mob, etc., are for market reasons, where a market need for drugs, girls, cheap cigarettes, gambling, loans, etc., is being filled by players who are outside the normal legal marketplace.) >Problem is, young people who are just starting out have a no-reputation >identity, and would be treated the same as the no-reputation identities >that are used for screwing people over. Sure, newcomers always have it rough. Whether the newcomer is Nancy the Nym, or Eustace T. Collins, III, Esq., just starting out in a law firm, the newcomer has little positive reputation. (It varies, and the degree may mean something, just as Nancy the Nym may have some reputation capital to show.) I mentioned "postive reputation." There is a real cost in throwing out, say, 30 years of accumulated reputation capital, and this will not be done lightly by many. Thus, in a given transaction, a lot may be at stake. (I don't mean for this brief article to be an essay on the many fascinating issues surrounding reputation and reputation capital. Cf. my Cyphernomicon for much more on this topic.) >Reputations could be very hard to create, and very easy to destroy. As in real life. People can destroy their reputations by being careless. (I disagree with your implied point that the opinions of others can easily destroy a reputation. In real life, it usually takes a lot more than just bad-mouthing. Even in nym-space, the same is apparently true.) >Well-known good reputations would be powerful and fairly hard to destroy, >so it's possible that the big reputations might try to crush little >reputations in an effort to gain some sort of reputation monopoly. Maybe. Implausible as a central problem, but all things will likely happen. This happens occasionally in the real world, as when a Big Reputation (e.g., Bill Clinton) belittles and marginalizes a Small Reputation (e.g., Paula Jones). There's a vast amount of stuff to think about with reputations. I applaud Steve for doing some thinking, but I don't think he's yet uncovered anything especially unique or worrisome. As a last point, see especially the role of anonymous escrow agents. A number of years ago the example I usually used was "Ace Escrow--You Slay, We Pay," to illustrate that an anonymous escrow holder (holding untraceable e-cash deposited by the purchaser of a murder contract) could pay off a murderer who presented certain evidence, all without any of the parties having any idea whatsover whom the other parties were. The problem is then one of whether the escrow company will simply pocket the money and not pay off. First, it can be set up (I think) that the e-cash is uncashable by the escrow company...but I'm not sure this is needed. A better solution is to rely on the basic nature of escrow or bonding services: their reputation capital is much more valuable to them than anything to be gained by defecting and burning their clients. Except if they are about to retire anyway...as with the bonded courier who defects to Rio de Janeiro with a bag of diamonds....the trick is to spread the escrow money around to multiple escrow agents, and to rely on "escrow testing services" which periodically ping or test the services.... There are many issues here. I'm not advocating murder markets, just noting that they provide an easy to understand and fairly "pure" example. If it can be done with murders for hire, it can be done with nearly anything. A few years ago, many valuable ideas were contributed in this area by Dave Ross, Phil Salin, Dean Tribble, Hal Finney, and Robin Hanson. You might search for their articles. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

3 2

RUL_net
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

May-June, 1996, Harvard Business Review. Two related articles which examine c'punks interests -- proposed business regulation of the Net; on-line security; copyright; encryption; authentication; E-cash; electronic commerce; protected communities to escape "frontier anarchy." Executive summaries by HBR: "Ruling the Net." Debora Spar and Jeffrey J. Bussgang The Internet promises a radical new world of business. But for many companies, it has yet to deliver. Although doing business in cyberspace may be novel and exhilarating, it can also be frustrating, confusing, and even unprofitable. Debora Spar and Jeffrey Bussgang argue that the problems companies face have little to do with a lack of technology or imagination. Their problems stem instead from a lack of rules. Without the order that rules create, business cannot be conducted. The authors explain why the informal rules that have developed on the Internet since the 1960s are no longer sufficient. Businesses thinking of allowing millions of dollars of transactions to occur on the wide-open Net need specific assurances. They require clear definitions of property rights, a safe and useful means of exchange, and a way to locate and punish violators of on-line rules. The authors believe that the key to commerce on the Internet lies in the creation of managed on-line communities. Such communities can be formed by service providers -- entities that will restrict on-line options, fine-tune offerings to match a select group of users, and provide some means of recourse in cases of fraud or abuse. Under those conditions, they will draw new companies on-line and increase the productivity of those already there. And, say the authors, the rewards for service providers will be substantial: Companies that make the rules on the Internet's emerging frontier have the opportunity to reap the greatest profits. [40 kb] "The Real Value of On-Line Communities." Arthur Armstrong and John Hagel III The notion of community has been at the heart of the Internet since its early days, when scientists used it to share data, collaborate on research, and exchange messages. But how can businesses best use its community-building capabilities? Not merely by putting their products or services on-line, the authors contend. Real value will come from providing people with the ability to interact with one another -- from satisfying their multiple social needs as well as their commercial needs. Companies that create strong on-line communities will command customer loyalty to a degree hitherto undreamed of and, consequently, will generate strong economic returns. The authors present four different types of community: communities of transaction, interest, fantasy, and relationship. Examples of each type already can be found on the Internet or through on-line services, but the successful community of the future will incorporate all four -- or as many as possible. As for economic value, the authors see four ways for a company to generate returns: through usage fees, content fees, transactions and advertising, and synergies with other parts of its business. In the near future, new business definitions may emerge around the notion of owning a specific customer segment across the full range of its interests and needs; owning specific products and services may no longer be so important. The authors urge businesses marketing to consumers to make the small investment required to "buy an option" on electronic communities in order to understand both their potential value and the radical changes they may cause. [33 kb] RUL_net (for the 2) ----- Reprints of "Ruling," No. 96309 and "Real Value," No. 96301 may be ordered from HBR for $5.00 each by email to: custserv(a)cchbspub.harvard.edu

1 0

Re: Why does the state still stand:
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's a partial copy (edited to stay within fair use) of the U.S. News & World Report article I mentioned, off of their web site. -Allen _UPSET? TRY CYBERTHERAPY_ _AN ONLINE VISIT TO THE PSYCHOLOGIST MAY PROVIDE AN ANSWER, CHEAP_ Got the blues? Can't stop scarfing down bags of potato chips? Your spouse is always hostile, and you and the kids are, too? Therapy might help--at $125 a session. Or you could test a '90s solution: E-mail your way to mental health for a fraction of the cost. In the past year, angst has become a thriving niche on the World Wide Web. Many psychologists who are setting up home pages see electronic consultation as a way to plump up incomes hit by managed care and to attract new patients to the office. For the most part, these cyberpractitioners are careful to warn potential patients that the medium doesn't allow for detailed probing. "I give advice like Ann Landers and Dear Abby do," explains Dorothy Litwin, a New York psychologist who specializes in substance abuse, women's issues and couples therapy. Litwin is one of five women who joined forces about a year ago to form an electronic practice, Shrink-Link (address, box, Page 83). Four are New York State-licensed psychologists; one is a psychiatrist. Each has her own regular practice and specializes in a particular area of psychotherapy. For $20--you pay upfront by typing in your credit card number--you can send off your 200-word (or less) question; it is then routed to the appropriate therapist. Within 72 hours (often within 24 hours), you get back two or three paragraphs of privately E-mailed advice. _ The short answer._ The cybercouch is most effective at giving people who can clearly identify the dilemma (my daughter is anorexic; I'm deep in debt and can't stop spending) a start toward a solution. A typical Shrink-Link question: "My 5-year-old was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder (ADD) in 1993 and has been on Ritalin ever since. She has been having trouble falling asleep for the past several months and has been moodier than usual of late. What do you think?" The gist of the response: "Some trial and error is often required before the correct dosage and timing are found, and symptoms such as sleep disturbance and moodiness often occur in the interim. Moreover, since children's rates of metabolism change, dosages often need to be adjusted. Even if the dosage is correct, the behavior irregularities you describe could be caused by administering the drug too late in the afternoon or by a host of other factors, such as nighttime fears. These possibilities need to be ruled out one by one until the culprit is found." The advice could well be to seek face-to-face counseling. E-mail exchanges are no basis for a diagnosis, for example, warns Marlene Maheu, a San Diego clinical psychologist who headed the American Psychological Association's subcommittee that recently looked into the ethics of cybertherapy. "It's impossible to get an anonymous patient's complete family history in a 200-word question," she says. And without such cues as voice tone, facial expressions and body language, how can a therapist be sure what the problems really are? "Smiley screen faces are a poor substitute for real communication," agrees Leonard Holmes, a therapist based in Newport News, Va., who says his online services are not therapy but "E-mail discussions." ("It's a bit more private than a call-in radio show," he notes.) Holmes charges $1.50 per minute and will spend as much time "with" a patient as the patient desires. Maheu's subcommittee and other psychology professionals worry that a lack of standards makes people seeking online help vulnerable. "When you are answering questions by E-mail, it's tempting to stray beyond your area of expertise," says Maheu. "The APA's ethical principles prohibit that." Critics also worry that confidentiality is at risk. While patients remain anonymous, a hacker could conceivably identify them. And these Internet sessions aren't encrypted. "You have no way of knowing who is printing the E-mail message out or where it is stored," says Thomas Nagy, a psychologist and Stanford University School of Medicine psychiatry professor. Nagy also worries that people with really significant problems will stop with an online Band-Aid. Troubling, too, is the fact that patients may know little about the therapist and his or her qualifications. Many sites don't disclose details about the counselors' experience and where they earned their credentials. Leonard Holmes, by contrast, provides a complete biography on his Web page that includes his educational background, what state he is licensed in, as well as areas of expertise. That way, interested patients can check out his professional background before a session. [...] BY KERRY HANNON _A few routes to mental health_ _Shrink-Link_ (http://www.westnet.com/shrink) These New York women-- four psychologists and one psychiatrist--offer E-mail advice for $20 a pop. _Leonard Holmes_ (http://www.psychology.com/holmes.htm) Holmes is a therapist in Newport News, Va., who answers E-mail questions for $1.50 per minute and provides links to other sites. [...] _________________________________________________________________ CREDITS Send comments to webmaster(a)usnews.com Copyright U.S. News & World Report, Inc. All rights reserved. This site is engineered by AGTinteractive [IMAGE]

1 0

Is Chaum's System Traceable or Untraceable?
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:35 PM 5/17/96, jim bell wrote: >At 10:09 AM 5/16/96 +0200, bryce(a)digicash.com wrote: >>Let me get this straight. You are asking for full payee/payor >>anonymity so that you can institute a program of anonymous >>assassination contracts, right? > >It's not just for me. I seem to recall a comment around here (Tim May, >perhaps?) who said that when he first read of digital cash in the late >1980's, the feature of payee anonymity was present, and that he was >surprised later to see early implementations not containing this. Yes, this was I (or "me"). I first read of Chaum's work in late '85, in his CACM article, and then "rediscovered" it when I was doing some review work for Phil Salin's AMIX information market startup in 1987. Certainly the text of Chaum's articles implied both payer and payee anonymity, though certain details may've been unclear to some of us. When Chaum unveiled his "payer is anonymous, but payee is traceable," some of us were surprised. (On the other hand, I have had a longstanding faith that the system can be made to be both payer- and payee-anonymous. Moneychangers, for example.) >Deal with the devil? > >Any "complete" digital cash implementation has to provide for payee anonymity. > I agree with Jim Bell on this completely. I don't know if Chaum has been seduced by the Dark Side, or is looking to get digicash widely deployed by "respectable" institutions, or is telling the truth (that his system _never_ provided for real untraceability), but I know that Cypherpunks should always strive for full untraceability. One-sided traceability is not enough. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

5 4

Re: Past one terabit/second on fiber[PHONE GEEK TALK]
by remailer＠2005.bart.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> No comment :-) And I certainly don't presume to speak for Lucent.... And to think that some of Lucent's next fiber products will include some technology developed by cypherpunks.

1 0

Re: Defeating fingerprints [NOISE]
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Topic that won't die, I guess. There's a nail-polish variant called "ridge filler" that may help fill things in, and Plastic Wood comes in pink enough colors it may get you through a trip to the CA Motor Vehicle Department registration, though it won't stop an intelligent person looking at your fingers. [And no, I didn't think of it; I'd been dealing with the question of exactly what citizenship papers were required for the thugs. On the other hand, when my father-in-law moved to Hawaii many years ago, the law required that you provide either a SSN or a thumbprint when you apply, and the clerks were really annoyed that he made them do a thumbprint instead of just writing down an SSN.] # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com, +1-415-442-2215 # goodtimes signature virus innoculation

1 0

Level30 Newsletter
by cardinpa＠cardin.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please Note: Every effort has been made to post this announcement only in those groups and lists where there should be a natural interest in its subject matter. We apologize in advance if any readers believe it to be off-topic or otherwise inappropriate. It is a single post and it will not be repeated or followed with others. Thank you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ANNOUNCING LEVEL30 An Important New Internet Newsletter Dealing With Pornography and Censorship Issues * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * No matter what side of these issues you are on... DO NOT IGNORE THIS NEWSLETTER! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * About the Cost - FREE About the Subscription - To receive this biweekly (or more frequently) newsletter, simply send an e-mail message To: majordomo(a)databack.com Subject: (leave blank) Message: subscribe level30 About the Purpose - To instruct families on how to safely use the Internet, and to inform families, law enforcement, the media and other interested Internet organizations about breaking news in the fight to keep illegal pornography and child pornography OFF the Internet. About the Title - This is the Offense Level mandated by the United States Sentencing Commission for the trafficking of child pornography often found on the Internet in Usenet newsgroups. (Base offense level - 17; if the material involves a prepubescent minor, increase by 2 levels; if the offense involves distribution, increase by at least 5 levels; if the offense involves material that portrays sadistic or masochistic conduct or other depictions of violence, increase by 4 levels; and if a computer was used to transport or ship the visual depiction, increase by 2 levels.) (The Sentencing Table can be found at http://www.ussc.gov.) About the Author - Paul D. Cardin, P.A **Member of the Board of Directors of Oklahomans for Children And Families (OCAF). **Author of The Agincourt Project - the electronic expose that explains how Internet Service Providers (ISPs) are responsible for the distribution of illegal pornography and child pornography throughout America. (You may obtain a copy of The Agincourt Project via autoresponder e-mail by sending a blank e-mail message to noporn(a)mailback.com) ** Architect of the most effective and successful campaign in the United States today to stop the electronic distribution of illegal pornography and child pornography. ** National Directorship soon to be announced. About the Regular Features - **America's Most Wanted - A list of public corporations that are the enemies of America's children and families because of their continued electronic distribution of illegal pornography and child pornography. **(Your State Here)'s Most Wanted - A state by state list of ISPs that are the enemies of children and families because of their continued electronic distribution of illegal pornography and child pornography. **Commentary - Incisive and hard hitting analysis of the legal and constitutional issues facing the Internet today. ** Battle Reports - Updates from the front lines, from "war correspondents" across the country. ***** The court battles over the Communications Decency Amendment. ***** The status of OCAF against the Oklahoma ISPs. ***** The status of Loving v. Boren - is it a ridiculous waste of taxpayers money or will it be the definitive Internet court ruling? *****The status of other important electronic obscenity court cases. *****The status of battles yet to be engaged. About Special Reports - **Testimonies from the victims of pornography. ** Profiles of the men and women who are engaged in the battle to free our society from its plague. **Interviews with law enforcement officers, prosecutors, and ISPs. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The Top Ten Reasons TO SUBSCRIBE To "Level30" - **Reason #10 - You are an INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER who wants to stop violating federal and state obscenity and child pornography laws. **Reason #9 - You are a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER or PROSECUTOR who wants to learn how to stop ISPs from violating federal and state obscenity and child pornography laws ** Reason #8 - You are a PUBLIC OFFICIAL who wants to learn how to keep illegal pornography and child pornography off of publicly owned and operated computer systems. ** Reason #7 - You are a UNIVERSITY OFFICIAL or LIBRARY OFFICIAL who wants to learn how to keep illegal pornography and child pornography off of your university or library computer system. **Reason #6 - You are a SCHOOL OFFICIAL or TEACHER who wants to learn how to keep illegal pornography and child pornography off of your school's computer system. **Reason #5 - You belong to a CHILD ADVOCACY or WOMEN's RIGHTS group and you want to learn how to fight illegal pornography and child pornography on the Internet. **Reason #4 - You belong to a CHURCH or RELIGIOUS GROUP and you want to learn how to fight illegal pornography and child pornography on the Internet. **Reason #3 - You are a CORPORATE EXECUTIVE or PR OFFICER who wants to learn how to avoid extremely damaging publicity for your company. **Reason #2 - You are a REPORTER who wants to stay one step ahead of numbers 3 through 10 above And, finally....... **Reason #1 - You are a PARENT or GRANDPARENT who wants to learn more about how to keep the Internet safe for your children and/or grandchildren. SUBSCRIBE TODAY

1 0

Re: Why does the state still stand:
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:09 AM 5/16/96 +0200, bryce(a)digicash.com wrote: > > The entity calling itself jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> > is alleged to have written: >> >> But what I'm looking for is full payee/payor anonymity. (three guesses as >> to why...) Can you do this? If not, why not? > > >Let me get this straight. You are asking for full payee/payor >anonymity so that you can institute a program of anonymous >assassination contracts, right? It's not just for me. I seem to recall a comment around here (Tim May, perhaps?) who said that when he first read of digital cash in the late 1980's, the feature of payee anonymity was present, and that he was surprised later to see early implementations not containing this. Deal with the devil? Any "complete" digital cash implementation has to provide for payee anonymity. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

1 0