December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

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17 Dec '03

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ITARs and the Export of Classes and Methods
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:12 PM 4/30/96, Alex Strasheim wrote: >> Our Navigator 3.0 release will allow java and javascript to call into >> plugins. Since plugins are native code, you will be able to freely mix >> C and Java. Of course you will have to get the user to install your >> plugin on their disk. > >That's the problem, installing the plugin. > >I (and some others, I think) was hoping that it would be possible to build >powerful crypto applets and put them up on web pages. That way everyone >with a java enabled copy of Netscape could use a remailer or send crypted >mail without having to download, install, and configure software. > >If people have to download and install a plugin to use a java mixmaster >applet, why not just download and install a native mixmaster client? > >Of course there are other reasons to use java -- platform independence, >for example. But it's the user's ability to download and run applets just >by jumping to a web page that has everyone excited. With that gone (for >crypto), java loses a lot of its lustre (again, for crypto work). Hmmmhhh.... It may be--from the comments of Dan W. about the NSA, export, and Java, and from other signs--that the NSA and its allies see the same opportunities many of us see. And that they don't like what they see. I hope Marianne and the other Sun and/or Netscape folks can keep us informed on what, if anything, the NSA is telling them they can do with Java and what they cannot do. Under the guise of "export," of course, as there is no legal basis for restricting domestic (within the Greater Unites States and Canada Coprosperity Sphere) crypto. An interesting situation for the ITARs, if they try to restrict bignum classes, for example. A class-based system, if done correctly (in whatever language, e.g., C++ or Java), should have _most_ of the hard crypto work already implemented in classes and methods (for bignums, modular exponentiation, etc.), with the final crypto program much more easily implemented and exported. (I presume that PGP 3.0 is being done largely this way (class libraries), and, speculatively, PGP 4.0 might be Java-based, and rely on small applets calling the various classes.) Does the battle for restricting exports of programs, a la PGP or Lotus Notes, then shift to controlling the export of computer languages?! --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Former CIA Director and *Strategic Investment* Editor
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:11 PM 4/30/96, jim bell wrote: >I'd like to hear more about the timeline. From a snippet I heard yesterday, >he telephoned his wife and said he'd be renting a canoe. Okay, who and why >did "they" visit a cabin (?) to find him? (If somebody called me from a >cabin, and he had a telephone, I would not consider his failure to later >answer the phone to be particularly suspicious...) Then read the damned newspapers or watch the damned news broadcasts or read the damned Web news accounts, rather than mentioning that you've seen "snippets" but that you have other Unanswered Questions which They are Not Answering. Looking for conspiracies in the almost certainly accidental drowning of Colby is an even bigger waste of time than spending vast efforts trying to show that Vince Foster was killed by the O.T.O. Jeesh. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Investing on the Web?
by 53573730＠usa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Why I dislike Java. (was Re: "Scruffies" vs. "Neats")
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:38 PM 4/30/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >Timothy C. May writes: >> SCRUFFIES AND NEATS IN SECURITY >> >> The "security neat" believes in applying rigor to security. Machines and >> languages should be "provably secure." (Better yet, machines should be >> "provably correct," a la Viper, and operating systems and languages should >> produce provably correct code.) > >Don't take this the wrong way, Tim, but you have totally >misinterpreted the position many of us who dislike Java take. You >completely mischaracterize our attitude. Perry, that essay was, as I said, sent out before it was finished. I did not even get to the part I was planning about classifying the Java supporters/detractors as either scruffies or neats! Now, while you may have _anticipated_ the point I was going to make in the completed essay, you cannot say I have "mischaracterized" anyone's attitude at this point! Unless you have a source of thiotimoline I'm not aware of. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Investing on the Web?
by 53573730＠usa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INVESTORS, BROKER/DEALERS, AND BUSINESS OWNERS! The Global Stock Exchange has a new service on the web that will alert you to new and promising issues as well as exciting ipos, secondary offerings, and private offerings. If you would like us to keep you informed by way of short messages pointing you via hot link to issues on the web, click on our hot link below, visit our site, and sign up for the service you choose! It's free, fast, easy, confidential, and we think you'll be glad you took a moment to fill out our simple form at: GSE1. The Global Stock Exchange also deals with mergers, acquisitions, and in taking companies public. If you have an interest in going public or merging your public shell, visit: GSE2. For funding options visit: GSE5. Thank you, John, Kevin, and Crew at The Global-Stock-Exchange If this message offends you in any way, please accept my apology for disturbing you. Just reply to GSE with "remove" in the Subject or the Message section of the reply mail and your name will be removed from our database. To be globally removed from all lists go to IEMMC.

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Re: connecting Uni to the Web O Trust
by loki＠infonex.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Look at the signators and judge for your self. When I look at the people I trust through one level of introducer, I find I have a very high degree of confidence in their identities. Two introducers out, it still looks fairly good. I have not looked farther than that. It is the limit of my trust. In many ways it is easier to establish the authenticity of a pseudonym than a verinym. The only question with a pseudonym is whether the nym who posts is the same nym who posted last time, and the time before that. If, over the course of a year or two, there are no attempts to spoof the pseudonym, then the key will have become well connected with the nym. That is all that matters. Even if a "Sameer" has posted for years, I still have to worry if the person's real name is Sameer (given the current understanding of the meaning of a signature on a key). I once refused to sign a key because I thought the driver's license was forged, but I would be likely to accept a better forgery at authentic. I am at least as confident of the identity of Uni as I am of many of the other keys I have signed. The only ones I have more confidence in are those of long time close friends, and family. -Lance Cottrell At 10:21 PM 4/28/96, sameer(a)c2.org wrote: >> (Sigh). I'll say it yet a third time. Get a current copy of my key which >> is signed by at least three people on the web of trust. > > As if this "web of trust" was actually worth something. > >-- >Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-601-9777x3 >Community ConneXion, Inc. FAX: 510-601-9734 >The Internet Privacy Provider Dialin: 510-658-6376 >http://www.c2.net/ (or login as "guest") sameer(a)c2.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMYZOkPPzr81BVjMVAQGwOggA1xZguRBMxrjZisk/3Imf4VKLzTr7wNaO J5141lamYinHEnmvNZ9VTkq7kdkoTKw572RkC+tAeMI5PjAEOhxtbnRBMumVh7u6 wnxx1BD0Onka5r4M4avr8VFsPc2CYOicG5Yk33FJKuGT9JlSKgCOOeD8U5XQlbCD 8KGr6RPyYmEkKhEA3uhAE+vUjBN5ihCYglU+9U1wlRHX6bsS2gD3xjN2jaLCRcpv vlPPGLrxQbxi7jVKOjXM6flTpYmjnV5gDLtEKMtpF08LsvL+t51NleDGCBmV7aBp 5xIpFvFb/PRyZpZa21yESrZ13Dx+0qOgXpXEFB3A3SPGWKFQGILm0A== =sGly -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki(a)obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available! http://www.obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------

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by 56098393＠rocketmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: [LONG] Churchill Club: 20th Anniversary PK Crypto
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:01 AM 4/30/96 -0700, Mark S. Miller wrote: > Paul Raines, Project Manager, United States Postal Service described > ... The post office brings four things that private > industry can't: ... (2) ... well established reputation, ... > (4) it can act as a trusted third party. > >Oh. Well that's good to know. > > --MarkM I agree that the Post Office has a "well-established reputation." Too bad it isn't a GOOD "well-established reputation." Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Freedom and security
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- angels(a)wavenet.com (CyberAngels Director : Colin Gabriel Hatcher) wrote: >Mike McNally wrote > >>If.... (freedom and security) ....weren't antithetical, there'd be no need >>for a balance. > >If they were antithetical then as freedom increased security would >decrease, and as security increased freedom would decrease. There may be some word-definition problems here. I believe Mr. McNally refers to the words freedom and security as applied to individuals, and CyberAngels refers to them as applied to the whole of society. When all the flowery rhetoric is removed, society is made up of individuals, and individuals almost by definition disagree on the meanings and relative importance in their own lives of freedom and security. For example, I feel not-a-lot of freedom being Vince's munition exporter #17, but Louis Freeh doubtless feels more secure with a statist law like ITAR around. FBI Director Freeh and I are both part of society, and I can refer to the two of us as "we," but "we" clearly disagree on freedom and security. His side has more guns, along with the media, and my side has more people who tell the truth. He is free to open up all his private email to government snoops if he wants to, but he may not open mine, because I do not trust him. He also may not dictate the content of my webpage, which includes my possibly-indecent babypictures. >It is not IMHO inevitable that if we increase security we will jeopardize >freedom. My concern is that if we ignore security we will have no freedom >left to protect. I agree. Freedom is already diminishing at an alarming pace. That is why cypherpunks spread crypto, and why Libertarians like me rant. Freedom does not increase through more laws. _Parents_, NOT governments, ISPs, cops, villages, and so on, are responsible for raising children. Parents sometimes raise kids in ways that I disagree with, but I am unwilling to advocate laws that prevent it because such laws only breed more laws, which always lead to less freedom. >I don't believe the Internet community is split into two camps on this >issue - there appear to me to be many places where people draw their lines >at different points. I am unsure what this means. I want Jim Ray drawing my lines, because I think he does a better job of it than Director Freeh, even if his side has more/better guns than mine. I feel that his side is in a different, much better armed, and much more trigger- happy "camp" than mine. >I don't believe that security is the enemy of >freedom. I believe that freedom needs security in order to exist at all. Good. Join us in spreading cryptography around, and security will bloom (along with freedom). JMR Regards, Jim Ray <liberty(a)gate.net> "My cynical belief is that there is a lack of motivation in either party to fully and properly investigate [Mena] because the results will damage as many Republicans as Democrats." - former prosecutor Charles Black, in April 22, 1996's Wall Street Journal, p.A22 [NOTE TO MEDIA TYPES LURKING: Must the W$J and "High Times" magazine be the only journalists to cover the Mena, Arkansas story???]<sigh> _______________________________________________________________________ PGP key Fingerprint 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 Public Key id. # E9BD6D35 -- http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray _______________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQCVAwUBMYZ5Rm1lp8bpvW01AQEHCwQAgPyle05vnwDqeWJvWSjFLBm4w6JzZe/F dxYWsYTLmprySNO45Eu5UMfWiIyN0auW8vndS32Y67/HAgxvPFxfA1J95m//ty/l qoSDTeeKjuHi4NIMo1gHIVvsWI0cSL/4gJSUJEeI9Ck5xXnWiP1okZAgyLj2HtYS Wzag+PrHk0M= =hMTU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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