December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Here is some E-Commerce Info.
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:47 PM 5/2/96 EDT, Sally D. McMillan wrote: >I am writing a paper on electronic commerce, and I wonder if anyone happens to >know of interesting URLs addressing the subject, including security issues? >If you know of a good location for electronic commerce/security information, >please email me directly >at the following address: >103007.3426(a)compuserve.com >THANKS A LOT!! Sally Tons of it on every topic: http://ccs.mit.edu/15967/groups.html _______________________ Regards, Men govern nothing with more difficulty than their tongues, and can moderate their desires more than their words. -Spinoza Joseph Reagle http://farnsworth.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: Conrad_Burns@burns.senate.gov: Open Letter to Internet Community From Senator Burns
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:45 PM 5/3/96 -0500, John Deters <jad(a)dsddhc.com> wrote: [snip] >I agree that this could be the single most important piece of legislation to >affect the cypherpunks ever -- firmly defining the legal status of >encryption (and in our favor, no less!) [snip] I sent email today to Senators Burns and Leahy thanking them for their work on this issue, and I'm asking others who support their efforts to do the same. They've got some hard work ahead of them to get this bill through, I think, and I wanted to let them know their efforts are appreciated. I also pointed out to Senator Leahy, politely but firmly, my concern over this provision in the ECPA (which he mentioned in his letter, so I'm assuming he considers it still on the table): "Whoever willfully endeavors by means of encryption to obstruct, impede, or prevent the communication of information in furtherance to a felony which may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, to an investigative or law enforcement officer shall- "(1) in the case of a first conviction, be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 5 years, fined under this title, or both; or "(2) in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 10 years, fined under this title, or both." >] (2) Miniaturization, disturbed computing, and > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >] reduced transmission costs make communication via >] electronic networks a reality. > >I think "disturbed computing" pretty much sums up this list, if not the >entire net! :-) :) Rich ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

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Re:
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:02 PM 5/3/96, nmunro(a)technews.com wrote: >subsribe neil >munro OK, I will "subsribe" you. On the off chance that you meant "subscribe", instructions follow at the end of this message. The Cypherpunks list is handled with the "Majordomo" automated list handler. All commands must be addressed to majordomo(a)toad.com, not to the readers of the Cypherpunks list. How to subscribe to the Cypherpunks mailing list: send a message to "majordomo(a)toad.com" with the body message "subscribe cypherpunks". To unsubscribe, send the message "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to the same address. For help, send "help cypherpunks". Don't send these requests to the Cypherpunks list itself. And be aware that the list generates between 40 and 100 messages a day.

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[RANT]Re: CryptoAnarchy: What's wrong with this picture?
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:05 AM 5/3/96 -0400, Michael Loomis wrote: >No tax system will ever been perfect, but income taxation is a good >system of taxation. Income taxation inevitably requires some accounting >costs, but these costs should be going down with advances in computing >technology and other technology... My principle objection to the income tax is not the money, but the bookkeeping. When I am earning the money to pay my taxes, at least I am working at jobs that maximize my enjoyment and earnings. When I do the bookkeeping, I am doing a job I hate. (I'd rather be digging out septic tanks.) I have no choice but to do that job. Fortunately, I have a wonderful wife who does the bookkeeping. However, come tax time, she spends far too many evenings and weekends glued to the bookkeeping. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: Why I dislike Java. (was Re: "Scruffies" vs. "Neats")
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"perry(a)piermont.com" 3-MAY-1996 16:14:04.28 >Money is not a problem, but space is. There is never any room on a >trading floor. Space is at an amazing premium. Would switchable monitors, mice, and keyboards be a possible solution (with placement of the CPUs in another location), or are your users too permanently technically incompetent? I would hope the latter would not be the case given the technological nature of the modern trading field. -Allen

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Re: Conrad_Burns@burns.senate.gov: Open Letter to Internet Community From Senator Burns
by John Deters 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:22 PM 5/2/96 -0400, Perry Metzger forwarded the following to the list: [deleted] > In the meantime, I need your help in supporting the effort to repeal > cryptography export controls. You can find out more by visiting my > web page http://www.senate.gov/~burns/. There you will find a > collection of encryption education resources that my Webmaster has > assembled. I trust that the entire Internet community, from the > old-timers to those just starting to learn about encryption, will find > this information useful. [deleted] > Conrad Burns > United States Senator I agree that this could be the single most important piece of legislation to affect the cypherpunks ever -- firmly defining the legal status of encryption (and in our favor, no less!) However, did anyone actually read it (it's at http://www.cdt.org/crypto/pro_CODE_bill.html )? Here's a nice bit of section 2: ]SEC.2.FINDING;PURPOSE ] ] (a) FINDINGS. - The Congress finds the following: ] ] (1) The ability to digitize information makes ] carrying out tremendous amounts of commerce and ] personal communication electronically possible. ] (2) Miniaturization, disturbed computing, and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ] reduced transmission costs make communication via ] electronic networks a reality. I think "disturbed computing" pretty much sums up this list, if not the entire net! :-) -j -- J. Deters >From our _1996_Conflict_of_Interest_Statement_, re: our No Gift policy: "If you receive any alcoholic beverages, for example, a bottle of wine, you must give the gift to your location Human Resources Manager." This memo is from the Senior V.P. of Human Resources. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | NET: jad(a)dsddhc.com (work) jad(a)pclink.com (home) | | PSTN: 1 612 375 3116 (work) 1 612 894 8507 (home) | | ICBM: 44^58'33"N by 93^16'42"W Elev. ~=290m (work) | | PGP Key ID: 768 / 15FFA875 | +---------------------------------------------------------+

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L. Detweiler is a CyberAngel
by Richard Charles Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ROTFL. From http://snyside.sunnyside.com/cpsr/nii/cyber-rights/Library/Announcements/Cy… Special mention must go to an ongoing debate about anonymous remailers, which was an area where we were less informed. Thanks to an154280(a)anon.penet.fi for lots of very helpful suggestions. For those of you interested in the debate about anonymity we have two suggestions: firstly we have a HUGE FAQ on "Identity, Privacy and Anonymity on the InterNet", written by L.Detweiler, and if any of you want it, please write to us and ask for it (WARNING it is 138k!) Secondly you can write to help(a)anon.penet.fi for their FAQ on their anonymous service, which is also very educational.

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Re: L. Detweiler is a CyberAngel
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"llurch(a)networking.stanford.edu" "Richard Charles Graves" 3-MAY-1996 17:30:30.47 >Subject: L. Detweiler is a CyberAngel >ROTFL. From >http://snyside.sunnyside.com/cpsr/nii/cyber-rights/Library/Announcements/Cy… >Special mention must go to an ongoing debate about anonymous remailers, which >was an area where we were less informed. Thanks to an154280(a)anon.penet.fi >for lots of very helpful suggestions. For those of you interested in the >debate about anonymity we have two suggestions: firstly we have a HUGE FAQ >on "Identity, Privacy and Anonymity on the InterNet", written by L.Detweiler, >and if any of you want it, please write to us and ask for it (WARNING it is >138k!) Secondly you can write to help(a)anon.penet.fi for their FAQ on their >anonymous service, which is also very educational. I had noticed that earlier, yes... see why I think they know less about the Net than even _I_ do? -Allen

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Re: CryptoAnarchy: Late Comments.
by mkj＠october.segno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm amazed at the long thread my naive "CypherAnarchy" question generated -- not to mention the astonishing range of perspectives, spanning from the unusual to the bizarre. (Yes, that was a joke.) I haven't joined in much up to now, simply because it has taken me some time to digest it all. But now that the thread seems to be winding down, I have extracted a couple of interesting points for additional comments. "Snow" discusses nations without borders, then asks: > Are these the deep waters you refer to? In part, yes. But I think the possible definitions of "nation" and "government" are diffusing even more broadly than you suggest. A paragraph which I edited from my original message went something like: "Suppose a large multinational company finds a way to increase profits by cutting labor costs. To what extent does this resemble a global 'tax increase' on the world population?" A line of thought which (skipping over a lot of boring intermediate stuff) led me eventually to the questions, "What are taxes?" and "What is wealth?" Clearly, when the government exacts payment of taxes from us, it is more than just a screwy method of recycling used currency! Taxation, to oversimplify quite a bit, is essentially compelled labor. But it is even more than that. Taxes must be paid in dollars, and the U.S. government maintains tight and detailed controls over what types of labor and value can be converted into dollars, by whom, and how. Therefore taxation is also compelled *behavior*. It keeps us locked into roles which government has significant power to shape. In fact, due in part to tax policies, important traditional American lifestyle values such as "being independent" and "living off the land" have become damn near impossible today (while "normal" forms of employment frequently entail the waiver of important Constitutional rights). Once taxation is seen as compelled behavior, it is natural to ask how many other legal controls on behavior might have the effect, at least in part, of a sort of hidden tax. The military draft? Seizures of property in criminal cases? Obviously. But what about regulations on industry? Suppose Congress passes a bill which consolidates some segment of the military industry. Or suppose a government reserves to itself some of the most profitable lines of business, such as drugs and gambling. To what extent do these actions resemble taxes? My point being, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and clearly more than one way to increase government wealth. Cryptography may be able to hide value transactions when they take the symbolic form of money, but can crypto hide value in all its phases? If not, then crypto will change only the forms, not the essence, of taxation. It cannot shield us, for example, from outright forced labor (such as compulsory military service) or increased criminal penalties, etc. A final thought: Just as TV is in the business of selling eyes and ears to advertisers, the U.S. government has long been involved in some activities which might, to the cynical eye (such as my own), resemble the selling of "exploitation rights" over its population to the highest bidders. Note that such a strategy could do a complete end-run around any tax collection problems caused by cryptography! "Snow" also wrote: > Fine. So change the tactics. Instead of "Rising Up", simply use an > ages old an respected solution. Take out the leaders. Note, I am > _not_ suggesting Mr. Bells assination politics, rather, given a > violent revolution, or the beginings of one, shorten it by taking > those who make the policies you disagree with. But who the hell ARE the real leaders, and how are we supposed to find them? Hint: I don't think they're the people on TV! Politicians today aren't leaders, they are the heads of an unseen Gorgon: If you cut one politician down, two identical copies will spring forth in that same place! --- mkj

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SF South Bay: So WhoWhere wants to meet with people interested in online privacy and security...
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The people who run www.whowhere.com (a knockoff on the excellent www.four11.com, with a database partly based on a script they wrote to extract addresses from okra.ucr.edu) want to discuss how they can serve the Internet community better while protecting privacy. I suggested "shut down your site and become cloistered monks," but they didn't find that consistent with their business plan. So they suggested we do lunch early next week. Either Monday or Tuesday would work, and we'd be meeting in downtown Palo Alto. Anybody else interested in coming? For a good demonstration of why WhoWhere? is not necessarily the greatest thing since spice racks, look up "Louis Freeh," "Fuck You," "Asshole," "System Privileged User," and "Stephen Hawking." I keep telling them that they'd better remove this last, but they don't consider it a priority. -rich http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~llurch/ P.S. Yes, I just resubscribed. I just love you too much to stay away. P.P.S. If anyone wants to carpool from the Palo Alto vicinity to Joe & Cindy's beach volleyball shindig this Sunday with an alleged FUCKING STATIST CAPITALIST SOCIALIST NAZI J*W ANARCHIST, send me a note.

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