December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Our "New Order"
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:26 PM 2/4/96 GMT, Mutatis Mutantdis wrote: >On Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:30:48 -0700, David M. Rose wrote: > >>In view of the fact that our government seems bent on abrogating its >>citizens' rights to free speech, has anyone done a survey indicating which >>foreign countries have the best Net connections to the U.S. (excepting, of >>course, Germany and possibly France)? > >>It may be expedient for Planned Parenthood and others whose points of view >>differ somewhat from those approved under our "New Order"* to explore >>alternatives in order to reach their constituencies. > >The law makes anyone accessing material lable... even if you connect >to a foreign site where it's legal there, if it's banned in the US, >you can still get screwed (in theory). > >Methinks the time is right for a "PGPScape" web browser. > >Rob. Let me see if I understand this concept correctly. The remote site would pre-encrypt the transmitted data, so that when received it could be decrypted by the requestor according to his (or a temporarily chosen, to avoid disclosing the actual recipient.) public key, so as to disguise both the material and perhaps also the actual requestor? Excellent idea!

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RC2 protected by copyright?
by thad＠hammerhead.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

RSA issued a statement claiming that anyone using RC2(TM) would be in violation of various laws. I think that they might have a point. You can't protect an idea with trade secrets, certainly not a software idea, if you intend to sell the software. It is easy to reverse engineer it; this is probably what happened with RC2. But, what about copyright? Now, copyrights cannot protect ideas, only the expression of those ideas. An algorithm is clearly an idea, you could write a program that would implement it in a completely different way, not just by translating it (translations are still protected by copyright). RC2, though, as 256 bytes of seemingly random data at the head of it, in a permutation table. This is clearly not any idea, but a bit of text. This text would have to be copied to any interoperable RC2. (You could surely use some different permutation, and probably most of the 256! permutations would be equally secure, but would not interoperate with RC2). I would expect that this copying of text be held to be a violation of copyright. Some might argue that 256 bytes is so small that perhaps it couldn't be copyrighted. Copyright clearly can't protect use of a word, or a short phrase (1000 points of light, say). If the permutation table at the beginning was 65536 16-bit numbers, instead of 256 bytes, then the copyright protection be that much stronger and less open to debate. Do any of the real lawyers on the list want to take a crack at this? Has anybody heard any noise from RSA describing exactly how they intend to go after people? thad -- Thaddeus Beier thad(a)hammerhead.com Technology Development 408) 286-3376 Hammerhead Productions http://www.got.net/~thad

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Arthur C. Clarke Supports Strong Crypto
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(Pardon me for mentioning crypto...) Arthur C. Clarke, known to most of you (author of many SF works, coiner of the phrase: "all sufficiently advanced technlogies are indistinguishable from magic," mention by Alan Olsen yesterday), has a role in a "Discovery Channel" program called "Mysterious Universe." The episode tonight dealt with famous ciphers, including the Beale Cipher (buried gold), the Voynich Manuscript (who knows what it is), and the Vinland Map (my ancestors beat the Italians to the New World). Clarke concluded by opining that strong ciphers that can only be read by the intended recipient are now more important than ever. --Tim May Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: [NOISE] Sound bites re the Zundel German censorship thing (fwd)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:05 AM 2/5/96, Rich Graves wrote: >Sorry if you get duplicate copies, but I agree with Tim that mailing list >cross-pollution is bad. > >*Not* for broader redistribution, because they deserve privacy, but >illustrative for, say, certain knee-jerk anti-PC forces here, is the fact >that the two people who run webcom.com (Bcc'd) have been reported to be: > >1. Grandson of a Holocaust victim >2. Activist with PEN and Amnesty International > >I think we're all on the right side here, and for all the right reasons. ... Thanks, Rich! I really think the Wiesenthal Center and whatnot could really make some good points, and gain new friends, by PUTTING THE HOLOCAUST DENIAL CRAP ON THEIR SERVERS! Yes, an extreme step. But think of what it would say? --Tim [This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act] And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why don't you boys just come on in and do em right here in my house - I'll just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's getting old. I say we should do him." So the two daughters got him drunk and did him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got em pregnant....Onan really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while his brother got all the credit, so he whacked off first....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

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"PGP-Scape"? (was Re: Our "New Order")
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jimbell(a)pacifier.com wrote: [..] > >Methinks the time is right for a "PGPScape" web browser. [..] > Let me see if I understand this concept correctly. The remote site would > pre-encrypt the transmitted data, so that when received it could be > decrypted by the requestor according to his (or a temporarily chosen, to > avoid disclosing the actual recipient.) public key, so as to disguise both > the material and perhaps also the actual requestor? Something like that, yes. Anything to where someone watching cannot tell what a person is reading from a web site... even better if one cannot tell who is reading it. Anonymizing proxies would also be nice. There's also less worry about secure transactions, since if everything's encrypted it's harder to tell if a transaction is taking place, viewing porno or subversive or religious, literature, or if you're just reading something mundane. So much for vaporware, though. > Excellent idea! So is fast-than-light travel, but only if it's implemented. Rob. --- "Mutant" Rob <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" (not in quotes) for a copy of my PGP key.

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Re: Sometimes ya just gotta nuke em
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:36 AM 2/4/96 -0500, James M. Cobb wrote: > Neither dropping nuclear weapons on Japanese cities nor an invasion > of Japan was necessary to secure surrender of the Japanese government. After the first nuclear bomb was dropped, the Japanese government held a cabinet meeting in which they summoned Nishina, head of the atomic program, and asked him if he could duplicate atomic weapons within a few months. After two nuclear weapons had been dropped on Japan, the cabinet concluded that Japan faced utter destruction with nuclear weapons, and some advocated surrender. But according to emperor Hirohito "At the time of the surrender, there was no prospect of agreement" Even with two nuclear weapons, surrender was far from assured. It was touch and go: Had the coup succeeded, Japan would not have surrendered, and a considerably more nuclear bombing would have been necessary. The bullet holes in the imperial palace testify that even after two nuclear bombs, there was a substantial faction of the government determined not to surrender. It was certainly true that Japan was defeated, and reasonable people may disagree on justice of using nuclear weapons under these circumstances, but to claim, as Alperovitz claims, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, is not a mere difference of opinion on the interpretation of the facts, but a simple, crude, barefaced, blatant lie. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: free speech and the government
by tallpaul＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Feb 04, 1996 14:40:51, 'Alan Olsen <alano(a)teleport.com>' wrote: > >Crypto relevence: Some people regard the ability to hide "dangerous" >information to be as "dangerous" as the information hidden. Freedom of >Speech includes the right to choose who can listen to that speech. > I do not think that his last sentence is accurate. The primary example os a group that exercises its freedom of speech (maybe even fights in the courts for it) by holding a rally in the Village Green. Does their right to hold their rally also include the right to choose who can listen to the rally speeches in the Village Green? Of course not! Fundamentally, I think that speaking is a speech issue; determining who can listen is a privacy issue. They are very much *not* the same thing. The separation is not done away with by things like the cellular phone anti-eavesdropping or satellite cable broadcast laws. (Aspects of the separation are, however, addressed by PGPhone, or rather should one say made "unaddressable". --tallpaul PS: Olsen's post did have some good themes on the nature of the internet "as public library."

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The Story Lady
by A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Let me see if I understand this concept correctly. The remote site would >> pre-encrypt the transmitted data, so that when received it could be >> decrypted by the requestor according to his (or a temporarily chosen, to >> avoid disclosing the actual recipient.) public key, so as to disguise both >> the material and perhaps also the actual requestor? >Something like that, yes. As the quote went "It goes something like this...Not *exactly* like this but something...". What netscape does is to receive a signed public key, encrypt the session key, & return *that*. The session is then encrypted with a fast symmetric algo. (RC4-40 Netsape/export, IDEA - PGP). So PGP/scape would do exactly the same thing with trivial changes to the monkey-motion. Now Government approved PGP/BE - something to strive for 8*). warmly, Padgett

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Jim Bell - Murderous Terrorist
by jdoe-0007＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Vulis writes: AO> Alan Olsen <alano(a)teleport.com> writes: AO> I consider Mr. Bell to be a crank and a loon. DV> You're certainly entitled to your opinion. You might be interested to know that DV> I consider Jim Bell to be highly intelligent, knowledgeable, and overall nice DV> person. I'm particularly impressed by his calm and restrained response to your DV> provocations. I've also formed a rather negative opinion of you, based on your DV> actions in this incident. Jim Bell has advocated nothing less than paid death squads using crypto as a means to hide payment to these murderous terrorists. If you can find a conspirator of murder as " highly intelligent, knowledgeable, and overall nice person" then you also are in need of immediate mental health intervention. Should the mainstream media ever get wind of Bell's lunacy it will be one more nail in the crypto-coffin spurring the Feds and international anti-crypto efforts to a frenzy. Bell is either a total fucking lunatic of the extreme right wing (having read his suck ups posts supporting General Linda Thompson) or an agent provocateur for the Feds. One is as bad as the other. To quote your own words to Mr. Olsen; " I've also formed a rather negative opinion of you, based on your actions in this incident." AO> He has no interest in any sort of honest discussion. DV> Honest or dishonest, the discussion of Jim's political views has nothing DV> to do with encryption. His plans for death squads success DEPENDS on the anonymity provided by CRYPTO! AO> He wishes to draw in others in the hope of "punishing me". DV> You're punishing yourself by destroying your credibility and carrying on this DV> silly flame war. You've kicked Jim off of "your" mailing list, pushing the DV> flame war that you've started to this list. I don't appreciate this. And you think YOU have credibility here? Sounds like you are cut from the same murderous cloth as Jim Bell. I pray that if by some freak of anarchy Bell's plan ever comes to fruition both you and Bell will be the first victims of your own murderous madness.

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A Sign of the Future
by James M. Cobb 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Friend, A 02 04 96 Reuter Information Service newsstory ----------------------------------------------- GERMANS' INTERNET CRACKDOWN A SIGN OF THE FUTURE datelined BONN, Germany reports: ...growing alarm among governments at the uglier side of the worldwide computer network. What is this "uglier side"? German Research and Technology Minister Juergen Ruettgers shouts: "We cannot tolerate a situation in which anything goes." THAT intolerance is the U*G*L*I*E*S*T side of the 'Net. Last week Ruettgers declared ...that Bonn respected free speech but must also do more to regulate the Internet.... When it comes to wiping out free speech --A*N*Y*T*H*I*N*G goes! The prosecutors have even ...contacted the Deutsche Forschungsnetz, the national scien- tific research network. Following orders from the superpower, its puppet "nation states" are wrecking the genuine Internet. Nicholas Negroponte, director of MIT's Media Lab, popped up in Bonn last week to put a high gloss on the "situation": "The Internet cannot be regulated. It's not that laws aren't relevant, it's that the nation state is not relevant. [ DECEPTION IS VIOLENCE ] This is the next discussion we will have. [ If the superpower permits! ] Cyberlaw is by its nature global and [ You had better sit down... ] we're not very good at global law." Nick's a big shot at Wired magazine. So it should be no surprise to learn that Wired attacked cypherpunks in its 01 96 issue. In a fake interview with "Wired's patron saint," Marshall McLuhan is made to say (p 130): Concerns about privacy and anonymity are outdated. Cypherpunks think they are rebels with a cause, but they are really senti- mentalists. The era of politics based on private identities, anonymous indi- viduals, and independent citizens began with the French Revolution and Napoleon's armies...and ended with Hitler.... The cypherpunks are still marching to the same martial music. Please note HOW Wired equates liberty, equality, fraternity with capitalistic fascism, as David Kahn calls it. Equating the two in that manner is the same as rejecting the former while embracing the latter. Further: ending one sentence with "Hitler" while ending the very next sentence with "the same [Nazi rally] martial music" tends to identify Nazis and cypherpunks. (Of course those few cypherpunks who fancy themselves an "elite" SERVE the wolves at Wired.) Deception is violence: it accustoms people to being violated. Cordially, Jim NOTE. "...in the 1930s...capitalistic fascism did not inspire the dread among many establishment figures that communism did." --David Kahn. Kahn on Codes: Secrets of the New Cryptology. Macmillan Pub- lishing Co. 1983. Page 277. The Nando News online filename of the newsstory is: info5_28474.html Gary Wolf wrote "Channeling McLuhan. The Wired Interview with Wired's patron saint." He is executive editor of HotWired. This critical essay was composed 02 04 96.

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