December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Too Much!
by Brian Lane 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yet again I have un-subbed from the list because of the S/N ratio. And things were looking so good there for a while. Advice to Carol Ann: Take your crusade to e-mail. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Everyone is a prisoner holding their own key." | finger blane(a)seanet.com -- Journey | PGP 2.6 email accepted ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Remailers, Linux, & Help ...
by root 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, Normaly I use(d) 'ravage(a)bga.com' to access this list but the times they are a changin' ... I have successfuly gotten my network at home on Internet via a ISDN link. We are interested in setting up a remailer which among other things supports anonymity. If anybody has experience or learned input on doing this under Linux please contact me. A reminder that RoboFest 6 in Austin, TX will occur this year on April 1 & 2. If there are any c-punks interested in giving a talk or doing demo's then please contact me. If any of you folks are in the area then stop by and say Hi. I will be working at the Wired Society booth. Take care!

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Re: Peter D. Lewis
by nissim＠acs.bu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm unfamiliar with what it is people have against Kevin Kelly. Why "wanton scum"? people might want to send mail not cc:ed to cypherpunks to keep the list from experiencing too much of a burden here. -A

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Addresses
by admin＠tcg.sask.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I came across your post in a MLM newsgroup and thought you may be interested in an email address list. It worked great for me. http://www.unibase.com/~visions/email/ Robert L. James

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Re: Remailer Abuse
by doumakes＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > One thing to keep in mind, though, is that it's really the _last_ remailer > in the chain that's taking the most heat, and it would be nice if they got > payed. There's also an issue of some remailers refusing to be last in the > chain, so they dont' expose themselves so much. I agree, this is an important issue. But I think it's a separate one from the question of how users pay for the service. In other words, once there's a consensus to have a Guild of for-pay remailers, all the users should have to do is pay the Guild once. The Guild can then haggle over how to divvy up the money. Hard jobs, such as posting anon news, should command more money. On the issue of the medium of exchange, I favor blinded digital cash with its absolute anonymity. The "remailer in a box" that we spoke of earlier would do well to include this capability. - -- ______________________________________________________________________ Don Doumakes Finger doumakes(a)netcom.com for PGP public key Foxpro databases built to your specifications. Email me for details. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAwUBLw3RTBtumcu2AjihAQF+DQQAmhQxuMl4C6VzZLD+mHF5i0OAjLUZAhV+ eNOi4F6bUBsDyfm7TmxxWMsiJRlJFrKhIMT+A16lmBZPdQ/pnZjQSk2keLyXgs0N phsPmZsTWGZMOyWGH+Hh2ggBc5syhmZxuTWwHFqqbAKTVoYRC4esxW8g/lTKot7F drI0amkbq20= =pHqY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Files and mail
by cactus＠seabsd.hks.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Anybody want to offer odds on whether or not this merry little exchange will be reported in Wired as news? - - -- Todd Masco | "life without caution/ the only worth living / love for a man/ cactus(a)hks.net | love for a woman/ love for the facts/ protectless" - A Rich Cactus' Homepage - - -- Todd Masco | "life without caution/ the only worth living / love for a man/ cactus(a)hks.net | love for a woman/ love for the facts/ protectless" - A Rich Cactus' Homepage - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLw301xNhgovrPB7dAQFj3gP8CJV4TyRUl+sEQRHX6qH2TKK+B+JKLrwk kUM7Y0yaY2ZwScBnYRva5/Pyu8r70i2Z3yQUQFF7ECasxHwrYftfWweD0/4Pc4ws qEGNfGIheHtnP/J0B7G7xsIyAMSZIlUD3RCQ49o4BOpWk6bev4t5i/RP10yK9sit dA1go4Jiaag= =eQPF - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLw4vqSoZzwIn1bdtAQER/QF/SkRQGEEjHn+E0SZEiWs0McAvRccuzxFQ Uv76Kmmya6EMxTJOJFtatP1uQ7V6JmSA =g1Bd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Too Much!
by L. Todd Masco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.950106202333.12708A-100000@kisa> you write: > Yet again I have un-subbed from the list because of the S/N ratio. And >things were looking so good there for a while. You might want to try reading it from NNTP, via c2.org or hks.net. You can then use Kill files. Wonderful beasts, those. (And if more people do this, we could actually try to use some distributed mechanisms such as that that strn uses.) - - -- Todd Masco | "life without caution/ the only worth living / love for a man/ cactus(a)hks.net | love for a woman/ love for the facts/ protectless" - A Rich Cactus' Homepage - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLw32/xNhgovrPB7dAQEUBwQAhWOYKkqwHGyi2eFfnYt+8LsFU+Af3Lsl sT1VDjICu1XIAhswVfKL+h7Dn9r1pmeNHtJFF0V8S/fKGVOU5dhv+gZZwVOTjbnL a2g+MTZkh/vonVy5PLDELrpeRlcVdxR+abcg9AWahjYCFlua8NR5GjiN6iKeC1C8 o3F377//PSU= =rxxD - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLw4xuCoZzwIn1bdtAQHTNgF/T9OR6yUCu05KZW4s3MSHptRoclc31xO8 5O0jAXDA0c9oE/39smLZ++I6OoGh7Wiq =5/FC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Latency Costs of Anonymity
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: Wei Dai <weidai(a)eskimo.com> > [My idea for ATM mixes] > The problem here is that you'll have to do a RSA operation on EACH > packet. Pretty hard on the CPU... Yes, good point. It might be possible to use a stream model where the separate packets which make up a stream use the same conventional key. This allows the various packets which make up a stream to be identified as such by outsiders, but still if there are a large number of virtual streams going through the network at one time it should be possible to confuse the streams pretty well. ("I've got a crazy idea. Let's cross the streams!" -- Ghostbusters). Then you only need to do the RSA work at setup time, and you need a fast streaming cypher during the conversation. This is how the streaming-packet encryption models like IPSP or Netscape's SSL seem to work. > > I think it may be more useful rather than speaking of "true" anonymity > > to think of factor-of-N anonymity. This reflects the bandwidth costs. I > > would guess that, if you have a packet-based video converencing system, > > that today you could probably get factor-of-2 anonymity with custom > > hardware, and perhaps even more than that. > > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "factor-of-N". I only used "true" > to distiguish it from "trivial" anonymity (such as using a pay phone). > Of course, anonymity, like security, can only be relative. By "factor-of-N" I meant anonymity where you can only pin the source of a message down to one of N possibilities. It appears to me that many of the costs will be a function of N. It will be relatively easier to cloak your source as one of say 50 possibilities than to make it any of one in a million. This is why I suggested that factor-of-2 anonymity would be the easiest. The DC-Net concept would allow two users to share a cryptographically strong pseudo-random stream, and each of them to XOR their video output with the random stream; then these modified outputs from each of them are themselves XOR'd together to produce the joint output. As long as only one sends at a time, the resulting stream is their output, but it is impossible for an outsider to determine which one is sending. The hardware requirements seem quite modest and perhaps would be adequate today even for video. > [My points about limitations on suitability of anonymity] > > This is all very true. I guess I'm just lamenting the loss of my ealier, > more naive dream that one day everyone will be anonymous (read > pseudonymous), and that physical and digital identities will be totally > seperate. I don't think we would really expect everyone to be anonymous all of the time. In our personal lives, with friends and family, it doesn't seem appropriate to expect anonymity (although my earlier quotes from Greg Bear's sci fi story suggest differently). But still I think that for people who desire it and are willing to pay the prices, anonymity would indeed be available in many or most electronic communications. So if that is your desire you should be able to achieve it. Hal -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQBVAwUBLw9Q1xnMLJtOy9MBAQEhPwH+KSYD4KhA1HOUxqOzdb2WdMuq0i1XTFzH fKMnejTqlKVbFfEnQqfHukwKpH5nFpuN7towJ1o98aGqT1ACxbSjpQ== =2mxw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Too Much!
by Johnathan Corgan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>You might want to try reading it from NNTP, via c2.org or hks.net. You >can then use Kill files. What is the group name? == Johnathan Corgan "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." jcorgan(a)scruznet.com -Isaac Asimov

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what to do about live video - all the time?
by nissim＠acs.bu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've just invented a big hassle, and if I don't start the patent process someone else will. Picture a near future in which your shirt or walkman is a 360 degree video camera sensing live video across visible and other spectra. Your shirt sends out a signal to your home computer, Your home computer archives your daily environment and activities for you. You have been sold this device on several premises. 1) crime reduction - no sane low level criminal would harass you; you have him, his biometrics, unique thermal signature etc. on video. Talk about neighborhood watch. 2) life/work productivity enhancement. What was said when? what could you have looked into today but slipped your mind? 3) warm fuzzies. Kodak style "your life in pictures." For now I'll assume the device actually works as claimed. It is affordably priced. Any normal person who has a car alarm, walkman, or laptop PC is apt to have one. You even get a small discount on your health insurance. Maybe your local taxes go down as your district votes to reduce the # of cops. For now, we assume that all the output of your video shirt is securely encrypted when it leaves the Vshirt. ISSUE 1: Who controls the data? Year 0: The devices are so rare the police don't think to ask people to supply their tapes if they witness a crime committed re: a third party. Year 3: The police subpeona Vshirts they know to be in the crime vicinity. Presumably they use their current abilities with cellphone companies to locate who's where when. Year 3.1 While reviewing Vshirt tapes police note that non-case related illegal activities are going on. Jaywalking. Speeding. Recreational drugs. Verbal assault. Life and property threatening felonies are also discovered. At this point the scene bifurcates wildly: Do the police say, "look, this is happening anyway, we need 24 hour video surveillance of everything - if nothing else to protect ourselves in court." Evidence: in the UK they video the motorways, and several public areas in the cities (soc.culture.british Jan '95) -for crime/security purposes. In the US, there are utility poles wired for sound. Design News had an item on this in their Yellow newsflash section in '93 I think. The utility poles were/are in washington DC, and supposedly only listen for gunshots. I'm pretty sure the poles could call the cops in using triangulated crime location data too. However slight the infraction, we are all lawbreakers. Do we have a right to 'not testify against ourselves" by refusing to decrypt? Can we buy (ugh.) an "attorney-client privlege" box that hold all of our data Keys in a legal fiction that the courts currently respect? Will the 5th fare any better than the 1st and second amendments? Will the state issue a "statute of limitations" on data-recorded crime, so that you can't be arrested for last year's public drunkenness? Will Vshirt makers make, or be allowed to make, devices that create -absolutely no residue- data keys? that way, if you want to protect yourself from what you happened last thursday you can set the keystrip on fire and nobody, not even you, has a hope of ever decrypting? Evidence: in the US Digital audio tape Mfrs. are required to put in some sort of copyguard. Also scanners w/image signature. In the US, reconstructed deleted files for legal purposes is considered legal evidence. There is a firm in Seattle that has even reconstructed harddisks written over with 0s for criminal (tax) cases. Citizens or their employers are required to keep and prepare documentation adequate to prepare a valid tax return. i.e., some records you _have_ to keep. and of course the digital telephony bill... What thoughtful Pro-freedom arguments can be constructed to deal with this device and its social fallout? What thoughtful software and hardware can be created? The device does not yet exist, but component parts can be assembled for less than $2000 and 17oz weight that do a fair job of mimicking it. Moore's "law" suggests that by 2000, these oughta be $19.99/month plus data charges. VoicePGP is a great jumping-off place...will there be a VideoPGP, or rather an optimized-for-videoPGP coming soon? If I've christened its existence now. I hereby declare the application of Public+private key cryptography as it especially applies to picture, live picture, and/or video transmission to be public domain. (Surely I'm not the first, but this can't hurt.) Write. Talk. Create. Protect yourselves. ObLameJoke: Well, as far as I know none of my relatives were killed by Stalin, or Mao, or interned in WWII, or blacklisted, or even jailed. I suppose a few were drafted. I guess it's about time for the forces of authority to reach into my little corner of the gene pool and crush me too. I mean, I'm missing out! Treon Verdery, posting under the auspices of Adam Almog

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