December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Liberating Schneier's Code?
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In re Schneier's property rights: ` He didn't write most of it. The stuff I donated to the collection is freely distributable (but not public domain). I suspect that someone else could put together their own collection.

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re: Crypto scripting language
by wet!naga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 09:00:10 -0700 >From: Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: Re: Crypto scripting language > >From: peace(a)BIX.com >> I wrote a cryptographic scripting language that has been implemented in >> a commercial product. [...] > >I'd like to hear more about your scripting language. >[...] In the mean time, perhaps you could describe the language here. What >is its syntax like? Interpreted or compiled? What kind of special crypto >support does it have? > [...] >Hal Well, I don't know anything about peace(a)BIX.com's crypto scripting language but according to my manual for Dolphin Encrypt Advanced Version (a different product from DE) the program supports a script language. It's an interpreted language. It's explained in an 11-page appendix in the manual. From a quick perusal: The script is contained in a textfile. You run DE with a command like DE2 @XXX.SCR and it reads XXX.SCR and interprets the commands. Apparently the script language is designed only for use with the Dolphin Encrypt program itself (so you can't use it to encrypt with DES, etc.). I don't have much use for scripting crypto applications myself (though if there were lots of encryption/decryption to be done daily I could see a use), so I can't post any that I've written for my own use only, but here's two of the sample scripts from the DEAV disk: #TEST2.SCR #Script for testing Dolphin Encrypt #Last mod.: 1992-05-02 if not there_are_any C:\TEMP\*.TXT output: output: There are no C:\TEMP\*.TXT else encrypt C:\TEMP\*.TXT C:\TEMP\*.ENC /c /b8 if exit_status = 0 decrypt C:\TEMP\*.ENC C:\TEMP\*.DEC /b- if exit_status = 0 run DCOMPARE C:\TEMP\*.TXT C:\TEMP\*.DEC if exit_status = 0 output: File comparisons OK else output: File comparison error! endif endif endif endif // VIEWENC.SCR // A script for decrypting and viewing text files in the current directory // which have been encrypted as files with extension .ENC. // No input parameters required // Use: DE2 @VIEWENC.SCR // Last modified: 1993-03-25 set escape on // Allow termination from script // by pressing the Escape key. output // Print a blank line decrypt *.ENC *.DEC // Decrypt the .ENC file(s) if not successful // Check if decryption successful. output: Decryption error! // Print message if not. else // Otherwise: beep // Pause so that user can wait: Press a key ... // verify successful decryption. save screen // Save the video screen. DFR *.DEC // View the plaintext files using DFR restore screen // Restore the video screen. beep // Get the user's attention. output // output a blank line output: Decrypted plaintext files: DIR *.DEC /w // Show decrypted files on disk. output // output a blank line ask: Purge decrypted file(s)? if answer = Y purge *.DEC /d // /d means display file names. if not successful // If error occurred beep // attract user's attention wait // and wait for a keypress. endif endif if printer // If output redirected to printer eject // issue a formfeed. endif endif Lessee now ... for those interested, Dolphin Software's address is ... got it right here ... 48 Shattuck Square #147, Berkeley, CA 94704.

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Re: Liberating Schneier's Code?
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes, books are hard to update, but hardware is even harder. What is going to happen to all of those Capstone chips that use the "old" unfixed version of MD-5? Imagine what would happen if the Capstone was widely used in the country? It could easily cost many millions to update an algorithm in hardware.

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Re: DId you ever think...
by jpp＠markv.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: uri(a)watson.ibm.com > Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 09:10:16 -0500 (EDT) > > Wrong again. There was no "proto-DES". From Lucifer to DES took a > few years and significant redesign, but NSA didn't help (however > they sure as hell wanted to keep updated on what was going on, so > we were telling them [or rather - the team who designed it,'cause > I joined later on :-]). Are you saying that IBM developed DES entierly on their own? This doesn't fit my model at all. But, I'm not afraid to be wrong. > > Learn something new every day... > > Please do! (:-) Gladly! Please tell (learn) me: what was the history of the development of DES. How were DES, IBM, NSA, NIST (then NBS), and FIPS related? Wasn't there some concern on IBM's part about liability -- Thus the us Governments participation, including the 'secret' changes to DES? > > Since about 1977 I wondered what the 'rediscovered > > crypto techniques' were. > > Will you bet your ass it was the only technique in consideration? Why would I do that? j'

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Level of Discourse on the Cypherpunks List
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This post is about the level and quality of discourse here on this list. Because of the number of posts I make (and one hopes, the quality?), I get a fair amount of personal mail directed at me from people with personal gripes about the way the list discussion is working, or not working, or "should be run," and so on. Some of these points I even agree with...and sometimes I tell my e-mailers this. But several things need to be said: - the list has more than 700 names on it, last time I checked (send the message "who cypherpunks" (in the body) to majordomo(a)toad.com) - these folks have diverse interests - often newbies join the list and have things they want to get off their chest; their agenda sometimes dominates the discussion until they've exhausted what they wanted to say (or burn out and leave the list) - old-timers who have been on the list for many months, and sometimes since the beginning in October 1992, have seen the main themes many times and may not want to contribute each time a thread comes up - the list is an anarchy: it is not "run" by any one person, although Eric Hughes has certain powers as List Administrator, and John Gilmore has other powers (as owner of the machine on which the list runs). [Please, not another debate about who owns the list, about how our words are not owned by Hughes et. al., etc. And, please, not another meta-debate about why shouldn't we debate this. One of the problems with a community of 700, any of whom can take the "floor" at any time, is that any statement gets a rebuttal, every debate becomes contentious. _This_ paragraph will likely be angrily rebutted by at least one of you out there.] - I repeat: the list is an anarchy. There is no voting, no membership, no Board of Directors, no formal policies or charter. Just a collection of relatively common memes. This whole issue came up again when a list member sent me a message saying he had been lurking on the list for several weeks and that he would "give it another couple of weeks" to see if the S/N ratio--for the things that interested him--could be improved. I wrote him the following reply. I have of course edited out his comments and replaced them with vanilla comments. "I've been lurking for several weeks. I'm unhappy with the large number of posts which have little to do with this list. I'm more interested in crypto methods, software, etc., and had hoped to see more discussion of that." There's certainly a lot of what you are talking about, wouldn't you say? Yes, a lot of other stuff, too. That is, mixed in with all the political stuff, the jokes, etc., is a fair amount of commentary on algorithms, new code, status of exising programs, etc. This certainly will appear to be fragmentary (e.g., a bunch of short comments about D-H code), but this is because Cypherpunks is a mailing list, not an essay list exclusively. Most of the main stuff has been written about at least several times, so newcomers cannot possibly expect a steady flow of tutorials, incisive essays, etc. (And a steady flow of tutorials would turn-off a lot of others, ironically.) "I'm not willing to read 60-80 messages a day to find the stuff I'm interested in. Or to find the associations with the alleged topics at hand." [the last is my correspondents choice of phrasing.] Then you are probably best off leaving the list, as nobody will tailor their posts to match your exact needs, or even your approximate needs. "I'll stay for another few weeks, then leave if things haven't improved. However, I'd be interested in corresponding by mail with others who are interested in working on code." There have been at least half a dozen such attempts to create spin-off lists, or subsets of the main list. There was a "hardware punks" list, a "steganography list," and at least several regional sub-lists. All have died for lack of interest. or at least are dormant. For example, the "DC-Net list" was formed a year ago, by some guys who were tired of reading about topics that didn't interest them. There was one message, the welcome message, and then nothing more. C'est la vie. (I joined several of these sub-lists, out of a sense of duty and mild curiousity to see how they would do, and there's now zero traffic on them. It's a critical mass problem: the Cypherpunks have the critical mass to sustain discussions---perhaps sustain them too long, some might say.) "Maybe I misunderstood what the cpunks list was all about..." The best way is to lead by example. So, where are your posts? I look forward to them. But complaining that not all of the posts are to your liking is pointless. I can't change what other people write, can I? Nor can you. The thing you can change is what _you_ write. Besides, and this will be my final point, the list has been running since October 1992, with an average of 400 people on it (700 recently). Most topics have been covered at least several times, and sometimes a dozen times. The "old-timers" will thus usually sit-out these nth rehashings of TEMPEST, or the powers of the NSA, or steganography, or whatever. If you want a higher level of discourse, begin it. --Tim -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Faking hostnames & CHATTERBOXES
by Gary Jeffers 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

About faking hosts names being inconvenient: A week or two ago I did a post FREEDOM DEAMON in which I suggested the idea of the "CHATTERBOX". A "CHATTERBOX" would be the Internet Chat equivalent of a remailer. Other names for "CHATTERBOXES" would be "RECHATTERERS" or "RECHATS". It would hide the location of the user. It would also have the cap- ability to send commands without disclosing location. For instance, you could TELNET really anonymously! Lots of other things too! Someone feel free to write it. Still another way to get rid of host name.- Some- one once TELNETed to a foreign country computer, then that computer was kind enough to allow user to IRC to Internet Chat. Who was that "masked man?" Yours Truly, Gary Jeffers PUSH EM BACK! PUSH EM BACK! WWWAAAYYY BBBAAACCCKKK! BBBEEEAAATTTT STATE!

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Re: Gee...
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> > On Wed, 27 Apr 1994, David Mandl wrote: > > > Anyone can get this stuff out of the country surreptitiously. > > I think the point was to get it out _legally_, through the law's > > _own_ loopholes. Then they're completely powerless to stop it > > or persecute the responsible parties in any way. . . . > > Wrong on both counts. Getting it out legally would be nice--it's a great > *fallback* position--but that's not the object of the game. The idea is > to get it out and make it widely available. Period. First of all, the above was not my position (though I have no big problem with it). I was just explaining the point of this thread, which the previous poster seemed to be unaware of. Now, are you saying I'm wrong about it being easy to get crypto software out of the country illegally? If so, you've got to be kidding. This stuff has probably crossed the border fifty times TODAY. Everyone on this list knows that. If simply getting crypto code out of the country By Any Means Necessary was the goal, this thread would never have been started, Perry would never have considering publishing code in machine-readable form, and no one would have done the little test with Schneier's book (Hal?...I forget who it was). The point was to get it out in such a way that no one had to hide from the lawman or pretend the code was written overseas, and we could all walk in the sun. Me, I have no problem with people exporting it illegally to their heart's content. > The Constitution and other laws are not magic talismans. It is fantasy > thinking that technical compliance with the government's laws renders > them "completely powerless." A Smith & Wesson beats four-of-a-kind. Your point? Sure, the government can do whatever they want. So? I have no interest in the Constitution and the "Law" (though I obey the latter because I'm not keen to spend the rest of my life in jail). I just don't care. All I was doing above was explaining this thread to someone who seemed to miss the whole point. > S a n d y, (Attorney-out-law)

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tcmay on wfmu-fm (nyc)
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

New York City-area cypherpunks: Tim May has graciously agreed to be on my radio show again this Saturday (via telephone). We'll be talking about the Big Brother aspects of Clipper/Capstone, and maybe a bit about Digital Telephony if we get to it. The vital stats: WFMU (East Orange, NJ) 91.1 FM Saturday, April 30, 12 noon local time (my show runs from 11 to 1). No, I won't be taping it. Tell all your friends. --Dave.

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No Subject
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

rarachel(a)prism.poly.edu (Arsen Ray Arachelian) wrote: > <<How about tarring the code together, encrypting it, and > e-mailing the message out?>> > > > Gee, how about getting arrested for exporting munitions? People have been doing that for years and no one's gotten arrested yet. :) In case you haven't noticed, people outside the US requesting crypto stuff usually don't have too much trouble finding a volunteer willing to send it to them.

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a test server?
by nelson＠crynwr.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is there a PGP test server anywhere? I'd like to use its public key to encrypt a message, mail it to the server, and have it mail the plaintext back to me. I'd also like to have it look up my pubic key in the appropriate repository (which is?) and verify that my message was signed properly. -russ <nelson(a)crynwr.com> ftp.msen.com:pub/vendor/crynwr/crynwr.wav Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | Quakers do it in the light Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

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