December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Corporations
by dwomack＠runner.utsa.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. May mentioned corporations; I'd like to hear comments on a concept.... Let's suppose an offshore corp. is established somewhere; perhaps Grenada, perhaps Belize, or where ever. You work for this corporation; the corporation produces a product or service. Now, here is where the potential seems to be: the corporation generates bills from the offshore location. Customers pay to the corp., mailing to the offshore location. Constructive receipt, then, is offshore. My understanding is that corporate earnings are subject to the host country's tax, NOT U.S. tax. And, tax waivers are not difficult to get from these other countries. If one wishes to take some risks, the corp. then makes a loan to the individual, at a fair market rate of interest. This would be in addition to whatever miserly wage the corp. paid to it's employees. Of course, the person would be obligated to declare a forgiven loan as income; they would be on their honor to do so, since there would be no paperwork.... Any thoughts? Or is there a gigantic hole in my thinking? Regards....

3 2

Clipper/Skipjack
by The PUNISHER - Judge 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

just a quick note to tell you all that I just read an editorial in info security by John Droge. He rambles on in much the same way Dorothy Denning does, terrorists, you can trust that gov't...blah, blah, blah.. Anyway, I was wondering why any sane, 1/10 intelligent person would be defending the Clipper chip...then I read his bio...he is a VP at Mykotronx. Looks like their PR machine is in full steam! :) The Punisher

1 0

Re: Stegonography
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There's been a lot of discussion lately about trying to make stego files not have any identifying marks, so that usage of stego would be indistinguishiable from noise. A more effective option might be to insert obvious (or somewhat obvious) stego messages in lots of graphics. Take every graphic file you own and hide something in it with a stego program. Put PGP messages in them (even including the obvious ---- BEGIN PGP MESSAGE ---- headers). Or a BBS ad. Or just cute little messages. Then distribute the files that way. Hopefully, people will take these images and pass them on without ever knowing there was stuff in them. If enuff people do this, graphics will become so "polluted" with stego messages that your truly secret PGP messages will be hidden in plain sight along with all the other graphic files full of stuff, and won't stand out. Plus, you could plausably deny having put it there, claiming that it must have been that way when you got it, and that you didn't know it was there.

2 1

Re: Insecurity of public key crypto #1 (reply to Mandl)
by Eric Johnson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

: From rarachel(a)prism.poly.edu Tue Mar 1 21:44:58 1994 : Subject: Re: Insecurity of public key crypto #1 (reply to Mandl) : To: ejohnson(a)pmip.dist.maricopa.edu (Eric Johnson) : Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com : X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] : Content-Type: text : Content-Length: 1207 : : > Would it not make sense, therefore, to publish a public cypherpunks : > mailing list key, which is returned with subscription requests? : > All incoming message cleartext to the mailing list server would : > then be encrypted in the server's key; not for security, but : > precisely for the reason you state above. That _would_ create : > quite a volume of encrypted communications to each recipient of : > the list. : : Please don't do that. I don't want to go through hoops to read this : mailing list. It's already cumbersome as is. Adding PGP in the soup : would make things very nasty. I'd rather not use PGP except for private : messages. That was exactly the point Eric Hughes was making; it is not a good strategy to save encryption for only private communications. Besides, procmail (or similar) should be able to handle piping incoming cypherpunks traffic through the decryptor, so the hoop would be transparent anyway. No muss, no fuss. --Eric

7 8

Re: Virtual Corporations to Avoid Taxes
by an64372＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May writes: > Here's an area that has long fascinated me: using corporate entities > as a way to bypass taxes on individuals. > > [misc. examples deleted] I've been researching this and related topics (offshore corporations, non-U.S. banks, mail drops, etc.) and I have many ideas and questions I'd like to discuss. Is this an appropriate mailing list or does a superior venue exist? Is there enough interest for a new list? Are there any commercial providers that run electronic mailing lists (if so, how costly are they)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

2 1

.
by nobody＠soda.berkeley.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>What has not been discussed here very much and what I felt going into >the conversations with these people is that they *can't* tell us what >they are afraid of. It is not a matter of won't. The conversations >bore this out. We have been concentrating on in our discussion here >on how much they fear the loss of a power they have gotten used to and >abused to where we find it offensive. That is not nearly so much >what they fear. It is the *unknown*. It is pretty hard to make public >statements like that. Repeat after me: Change is our friend. We must embrace change. Change is good. We must lose our fear of change. Change...Change...Change...Change...Change...Change...(click)...Change...

1 0

Re: Dorothy Denning
by W. Kinney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Robert Cain Writes: >What has not been discussed here very much and what I felt going into >the conversations with these people is that they *can't* tell us what >they are afraid of. Theodore Ts'o writes: >So if the cat really is out of the bag, then the government should give >up on this ill-conceived Clipper abortion as soon as possible. The fact >that the Clipper propoents may actually be recognizing the hopelessness >of their task this is a sign of hopefulness or a sign of great danger; >the question is whether they will act like rational human beings, or a >cornered animal. I think this is very perceptive. Clipper is perhaps the best they could _think_ of given an outmoded set of axioms. If the presumptions people in government have about their own role are no longer valid, they probably don't fully realize it yet, or at least can't admit they do. Clipper is just the kind of woefully clueless thing people in that position would come up with. It is kind of scary. Yikes. -- Will -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLXPOevfv4TpIg2PxAQE2zQP9HY7vmwAz73DDvW0wHti07p/4hlPOLouQ Yw0gj6Ixrxw00D1trdpZloU3pw5NfHrVGjcLvA12KMJqcjyh9Ga6+q1y/oQOoGzm q/8dTwgKT61pdkTKnPt8Esyy/g30Jzy+QODjdDFMkkey+KwE1vbKIJiQccPvZypJ rFpN4KOqBZ4= =Jo/p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

fyi
by hkhenson＠cup.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry to inflict this *DRAFT* copy of a letter on the net, but I have begun to feel rather paranoid--the kind of feeling you get from stepping into deep water and being among sharks. (I wonder if Danny C. would have done better if he had kept the net informed as he went along?) I have been told that the court clerks and judge's secrataries (who work for the Justice Departement, and are not really under the control of the Judges) do abuse-of-process favors like thoes reported below for the US Attorneys all the time. When the name spellings and facts get checked, I plan to print it out, put on my suit, and hand deliver it to the Judge Patel in open court. I hope to report in a day or so. H. Keith Henson 799 Coffey Ct. San Jose, CA 95123 408-972-1132 Judge Marilyn Patel Northern District of California 450 Golden Gate Ave., 19th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 March 1, 1994 Dear Judge Patel: As a friend of the court, I suggest you look into the actions of your clerks. It appears they withhold information from you and play games with your calendar. Last Thursday, Richard Williams (a lawyer from San Jose) made telephone contact with Ms Moriyama in the clerk's office. He had a motion to file for return of property and suppression of evidence in a case which itself involves a report of fraud on Judge Brazil to obtain a search warrant. Ms Moriyama told him that the motion could be placed on the calendar of your court for Monday, February 28, 1994 at 2:30 pm if he could get the motion filed early Friday morning. Mr. Williams had the motion filed by courier with the clerks office by about 9 am last Friday. He fully expected to be before your court Monday at 2:30. I learned of the hearing Friday and made plans to be there myself since my affidavit is part of this motion. Two of Mr. William's staffers talked to Ms Moriyama last Thursday, and are prepared to testify as to her agreement to putting the motion on your calendar, though the option was left open that you might shift it to some other department at the same hour. Monday about 10 am, Ms Moriyama called Mr. Williams saying she had no copy of the motion (two were filed) and denying that she had even agreed to put this matter on your calendar, or even that she had talked to Mr. Williams or his staff the previous week. She tried to get the matter placed before Judge Brenin, and when told that a Magistrate-Judge was unacceptable, she got the motion hearing placed on Judge Caulfield's calendar one day before the matter is to be moved to Tennessee, inflicting great costs and business damage upon the plaintiffs. While talking to Judge Caulfield's clerk on Monday, Mr. Williams was told that the US attorney had ordered the clerks to remove the motion from your calendar after it had been scheduled! Though I do not know that Judge Brazil ever saw the letter I wrote to him, one of his staff called me and left a long message (which I preserved) on my answering machine. In it, the staffer stated that it was not a Judge's role to investigate the fraud perpetrated on his court to which I had directed his attention, and that I should contact the US attorney if I wished the matter to be investigated. Given that the US attorney has manipulated your calendar to prevent these very matters from being brought to the attention of your court, I believe this approach would be akin to getting a fox to guard the henhouse. I have never considered myself a naive person. In spite of this, I have always felt that the judiciary in this country was honest. I still feel this way, but how effective can an honest judge be when their information channels are completely controlled by one party in a case? Sincerely, H. Keith Henson

1 0

No Subject
by nobody＠jarthur 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Men in Dark Suits, sunglasses and trenchcoats FORCED Bob Cain to Say: > >it is well understood that only voluntary means of controling this >exist and that liklihood is very small. Persuasion is not working and >the press has been whipped into a near hysterical state over this by we >and our friends (yes, we on the internet are considered to be the force >that has derailed their hopes and that was unforseen.) Thanks Bob... that admission from the opposing forces has made all of our effort in this fight worth it... This makes the complete devaluation of this "Clipper/Tessara" nightmare relatively easy.... we doing good... keep the pressure up!! This has lifted the fog of battle for us momentarily... > >As is obvious I don't consider this government to be a monolithic >antagonistic entity out to strip us of rights. Sure it has happened in >areas but they are reasonably isolated areas. There are *many* people >in this rather diverse government and in an advising capacity to it >whose sole concern is our safety and these people are worried. I find My Saftey is REALLY NONE of THEIR concern... they have already insured in court they cant be held liable for mistakes... >it interesting that there are many people here who lack the imagination >to understand that there probably are a goodly number of reasons for >rightly feeling the need for a Clipper like solution and that it would >not be appropriate for the government to be public about them. Why is >that so difficult to understand in these times of international strife, >terror and technology? Here I start to wonder about you Bob... OUR Government caused the current issues we are seeing haunt this country... and they want the keys to ALL the secrest??? Not a chance in HELL Bob... I AND OTHERS WILL MAKE SURE THAT CLIPPER IS TOTALLY SUNK!!! count on it!! anon p.s. to the punks... keep it up... you are doing a GREAT job...(anon pats himself on the back also!!) > > >Peace, > >Bob >

1 0

Put Us To Work For You TODAY!!
by info＠we-work-for-you.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** To be removed from all of our future e-mails please reply with a subject of 'remove' or to be added to a national remove list please visit http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information. *** Visit http://www.we-work-for-you.com TODAY!! How many times has opportunity knocked and you have not been at home? Today, please take a moment to OPEN THIS DOOR! For many years, I have been convinced that there is a business opportunity out there that any and everyone could take advantage of, because of the sheer simplicity of the business. I have found such a business opportunity! What if you could have your own HOME BUSINESS and you could hire sales people to do all of the selling for you with NO PERSONAL SELLING OF ANY KIND? This business has NO OVERHEAD, NO EMPLOYEES, NO SELLING, NO INVENTORY, NO MEETINGS, NO HASSLES, and did I mention NO PERSONAL SELLING OF ANY KIND!! The best part of this business is that you are not paying the thousands of people who will be SELLING FOR YOU! If you choose you can just sit back and cash your checks. Is this free money? Not exactly, but it's as close as it gets. You are going to be making money from other people's marketing efforts. The fact that you are reading this e-mail is proof that we will be working for you! It will only take a few minutes to look further at this AMAZING OPPORTUNITY!! Someone HAS to make money from our marketing efforts. This could be you! Please visit our Internet web site at : http://www.we-work-for-you.com or Reply to this e-mail with 'info' as the subject and you will quickly receive an informative e-mail reply. There is NO OBLIGATION for looking at our web site or replying to our e-mail so take a few moments to look at this INCREDIBLE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY! Sincerely, Razor Sharp Financial Services ~ Helping People Achieve Financial Freedom info(a)we-work-for-you.com

1 0