December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Disinformation
by smb＠research.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How will the development of the Clipper hamper the info-supe-hi? And what is the info-super-hiway anyway, eh? I'll leave out the buzzwords -- but Clipper will definitely hamper the deployment of good networks. Encryption is a vital tool for network management and authentication, even apart from privacy considerations. But Clipper is of necessity hardware-only, which means that most current platforms will never support it, and few future ones will actually have it, whether they're capable of it or not. And on many important boxes -- routers, for example -- just leaving room for Clipper on the boards will be expensive. We have the following dilemma: DES isn't exportable, Clipper isn't suitable, and lots of foreign governments won't allow it in anyway, I suspect. How is one supposed to do authentication on a global Internet? --Steve Bellovin

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Re: Mac encryption
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Ron Davis <rondavis(a)datawatch.com> > > >> What is everyones opinion of the best encryption software forthe Mac? > >> Frederic Halper > >> fhalper(a)pilot.njin.net > > > >MacPGP, available by anonymous ftp from the soda.berkeley.edu site, is > >the only one I know of using public key methods, and hence the only > >one of real interest to Cypherpunks. > > I find this to be a strange statement. Do we have no interest > in non-public key methods? Seems the Cypherpunks should have > an interest in all forms of crypto. Most users don't currently > use public key becuase they just want to keep thier boss from > sitting down at thier computer and reading the resumes they wrote > for other companies. This can be accomplished with symetrical > crypto just as well, if not faster than PGP. Cypherpunks do have an interest in all forms of crypto, but there are very good reasons why public key is more desirable than symmetric for "our purposes." This is at the very root of the crypto revolution and the cypherpunk ethos. Have you done the basic reading? (That's a serious question, not sarcasm.) PGP _does_ symmetric crypto. > >Commerical products (like the various "Kent Marsh" products) are > >mostly DES-or-weaker and are oriented toward local file protection. > >(MacPGP will do that, too, of course). > > Cryptomatic does come with Triple DES which is still a very > strong method. And MacPGP comes with IDEA, which is at least as strong (as far as we know). And of course, it does all the public-key encryption and key-management as well. A pretty incredible package, considering its size and cost. > Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface > is poor and it is hard to use. I disagree. > Can't stop without mentioning that my company make a product > called Citadel which does DES encryption. Hmmm... --Dave.

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Another Brick in the Wall (fwd)
by Mike Godwin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message:

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RE: the black budget
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"It took the Colonists several decades to get worked up enough to fight a war. We're only halfway through an equivalent time period. And I don't want to change the situation only with crypto, but also with public speech." Would you elaborate? Earlier, Tim May said something about using "the active spreading of disinformation about the compromise of the key escrow system" as part of the attempt to "Actively Sabotage Clipper and Capstone" (title of his message). What sort of public speeches would you (or others) make (to whom)? (Just curious) Blanc

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Re: Mac encryption
by Ron Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Cypherpunks do have an interest in all forms of crypto, but there are >very good reasons why public key is more desirable than symmetric for "our >purposes." This is at the very root of the crypto revolution and the >cypherpunk ethos. Have you done the basic reading? (That's a serious >question, not sarcasm.) Depends on what the required reading list for this group is. I thought that our purposes were to promote the privacy of individuals through the use of cryptography. This can be done in the contexts I talked about with symmetric as well as PK crypto. Maybe I have the wrong idea about "our purposes", please correct me if I'm wrong. >PGP _does_ symmetric crypto. >And MacPGP comes with IDEA, which is at least as strong (as far as we know). Rumor has it that Kent Marsh is working on an IDEA module for thier products as well. >And of course, it does all the public-key encryption and key-management as >well. A pretty incredible package, considering its size and cost. You're right its free. If something is free you can't really complain about it. If it does anything its a bargan. > >> Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface >> is poor and it is hard to use. > >I disagree. I can live with disagreement. Of course hopefully you would admit that Cryptomactics ability to select a file in the finder, pull down a menu and Boom encrypted file is easier than PGP's methods. ___________________________________________________________________________ "I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein _________________________________________ Ron Davis rondavis(a)datawatch.com Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC (919)549-0711

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Disinformation
by fhalper＠pilot.njin.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Miller wrote: The idea of a disinformation campaign to oppose Clipper really bothers me. Isn't the true about Clipper damning enough? Lying about Clipper seems like moral and ethical surrender. I agree that lying can produce favorable results, but I'm not willing to stoop to that level. If the anti-Clipper people (and I count myself one of them) can't defeat Clipper with the truth, this tells me the world is so fucked up it deserves Clipper and Capstone in every machine on. I feel that in the present situation with the Clipper chip, the ends justifies t he means. If Clipper is widely implemented it will affect the development of th e "Information Super Highway" for years to come. What Jim Miller sayts about ly ing about Clipper is true. But, what if that is the only way to open peoples eyes? Any means neccesary is the ONLY way to a victory in this case. you can't truly believe that the government is inly going to implement Clipper on a "voluntary" basis? Reuben Halper -Anger is a gift- Rage against the machine/Freedom P.S. Did anyone read the article in Covert action a couple months back on Clipper, it was very well done.

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Bet it's not encrypted...
by Alan (Miburi-san) Wexelblat 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[The following was snipped from EDUPAGE, the online summary service. Anyone have access to more information? --AW] AND OPTICAL FINGERPRINTS. The National Registry uses an optical scanning technology to create and compare digital maps of the finger surface. The map can be converted to a modified bar code for inclusion on a wallet ID card. The information can also be encoded on circuitry inside a credit or debit card. (Tampa Tribune 2/20/94 B&F1)

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Re: Mac encryption
by Ron Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> What is everyones opinion of the best encryption software forthe Mac? >> Frederic Halper >> fhalper(a)pilot.njin.net > >MacPGP, available by anonymous ftp from the soda.berkeley.edu site, is >the only one I know of using public key methods, and hence the only >one of real interest to Cypherpunks. I find this to be a strange statement. Do we have no interest in non-public key methods? Seems the Cypherpunks should have an interest in all forms of crypto. Most users don't currently use public key becuase they just want to keep thier boss from sitting down at thier computer and reading the resumes they wrote for other companies. This can be accomplished with symetrical crypto just as well, if not faster than PGP. >Commerical products (like the various "Kent Marsh" products) are >mostly DES-or-weaker and are oriented toward local file protection. >(MacPGP will do that, too, of course). Cryptomatic does come with Triple DES which is still a very strong method. Unfortunatly MacPGP's biggest draw back is that its interface is poor and it is hard to use. There is also MacRIPEM which is written by Raymond Lau, author of Stuffit, and is much easier to use, but weaker than PGP (but legal). > >About six or seven years ago I bought "Sentinel," from SuperMac, and >used it a few times. The problems were obvious: lack of other users >(so my friends couldn't receive or send), and the symmetric cipher >nature (we had to share keys for a message). Public key systems based >on PGP have solved both problems (though problems of convenience >remain). > Can't stop without mentioning that my company make a product called Citadel which does DES encryption. ___________________________________________________________________________ "I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein _________________________________________ Ron Davis rondavis(a)datawatch.com Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC (919)549-0711

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shame on the NSA!
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From the Independent reposting by Banisar: > After nearly 50 years of electronic eavesdropping, the NSA is finding >that some widely available codes are impossible to crack. Time was when the NSA wouldn't allow such a claim to be made in the press much less make it themselves. What's happened to national pride here? Let's go back to the time when the NSA acted smug in the face of civilian encryption. Give me back my good old Amurrican Supermen! - Carl

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Re: Blacknet worries
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

D.>With all due respect....the U.S Government has PLENTY D.>of tools to go after those deemed to be violators of D.>various rules and regs...with or without Blacknet, D.>with or without encryption. D.>What other tools can be used, well... D.> D.>1. Imputed income. Try to do this some time. It is very expensive to 'net worth' someone. The CIA didn't manage in their recent case. There are 114 million 'taxpayers' in the Naked City.. D.>2. Criminal conspiracy. Elements are D.> a. two or more people D.> b. a preparatory act If they can decrypt your conspiratorial communication. Conspiracy charges are rare in the absence of an overt act. D.>3. CCE (Continuing Criminal Enterprise). If they can find out something is happening and connect disparate encrypted activities to you. D.>4. IRS-1040, Schedule B, Part III, Foreign Accounts and Trusts. D.> Except for one relatively minor loophole, if you fail to D.> report a foreign bank account, it is considered prima D.> facie evidence of tax fraud. Sound like a really bad D.> day in the making? Prosecutions are rare and are dependent on linking you to the accounts, proving the balance of the accounts, and in any case only apply to US citizens/residents. D.>5. If you have more than $10,000 in US Dollar value in D.> an offshore account, you are required to fill out a D.> special form for the IRS giving your account numbers; D.> unless you want to declare that you have more than D.> 20 such accounts, aggregating to more than $10,000. Likewise. D.>6. RICO. They got Mike Miliken using this...indeed, Barron's D.> magazine did an interesting report on RICO, with the D.> conclusion that a determined Federal Prosecutor could D.> use the law to convict a ham sandwich. Mike was not convicted under RICO. He plead to two counts of stock parking and something else. D.>7. Did you know that Federal prosecutors have a better than D.> 90% conviction rate? In the several thousand annual prosecutions out of a US population of 256 million. D.>8. HOW does one spend "magic money"? If you have bunches of D.> cash offshore, and bring it in, records are created. If D.> you buy something, potential witnesses are created. Can D.> you really expect that the clerk in wire transfer at XYZ D.> bank (who makes $6.50/hr) won't tip off someone when you D.> wire in the $20,000 to buy ...whatever? Since much of future commerce will be online anyway, why not just spend it for telecoms time, software, living expenses in a VR environment, other non-physical services. Use it overseas. Expat yourself (see the current issue of Forbes for an article on expatriation as the ultimate tax shelter. Or just get cash from your local ATM. D.>9.. Spies, criminals, and others often get in trouble due to their D.> own and others' lack of discretion. Can we really expect D.> users of a hypothetical blacknet would never drink too much, D.> never wish to impress someone, never trust someone unwisely? Lost in the noise with millions of 'violators' extant. D.>I'm all for more of it; but, I really don't think it will D.>be anything more than a minor inconvenience for law enforcement D.>and prosecutors if people engage in wholesale criminal acts. Studies show that where the perceived risk is low, people are fairly willing to violate mere regulations. Most people can tell the difference between murder and tax evasion. The Common Law recognized this difference calling one malum in se (wrong in itself) and the other malum prohibitum (wrong because it has been prohibited). In any case, since US tax laws don't apply to non resident non citizens of the US but these sorts of people will be able to fully participate in the US economy over the nets, either US citizens and residents will have to fiddle their regulatory compliance or they will lose out in competition with foreigners who can undercut them or do things Americans are prohibited from doing. Sell strong crypto par example. DCF 1993 - Perhaps the first year in American history in which the Justice Department killed more people than the Defense/War Department. --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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