December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0

No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0

No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1 0

Children, the Net, and Dead Modems
by mpd＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My Zoom 14.4k modem just caught on fire. Therefore, there will be a sudden interruption of my participation in our friendly Sunday afternoon flame war on children, the Net, and other related issues. I found an 11 year old Hayes Smartmodem in a heap of junk in my closet. I think it will do 1200. This is the second time my Zoom modem has burned up unexpectedly after being replaced under Warranty, in case anyone is thinking of buying one. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

2 1

Children and the Net
by mpd＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, Mike Duvos wrote: > > Had it not been for the fact that having children covered with > > scars, welts, and bruises is not considered child abuse in the > > state of Texas, all the children would have been removed from the > > compound prior to the raid, and only the adults would have been > > toasted. > Puh-leeze! There has been little to no evidence of ANY abuse of the > Branch Davidian children. The only thing we know is that Koresh liked his > mates young but that doesn't mean the rest of hte children were abused > and, of course, Koresh's kink is quite normal in quite a few places. Are > you forgetting that the BDs were investigated for child abuse and cleared > earlier? These facts were well documented. Child welfare workers visited the compound and examined the children. Signs of previous physical punishment were noted as well as a room devoted to that purpose and the appropriate paraphernalia. A doctor at Baylor University Medical Center was asked later why this didn't cause the removal of the children, and said that while such behavior would certainly be considered abuse in a medical sense, it did not meet the legal definition of abuse according to the laws of the State of Texas. Texas, of course, is the leader on the national corporal punishment bandwagon and dishes out over 250,000 state-sponsored beatings every year in its public school system. So far all efforts to ban the practice have been successfully opposed by the teachers union. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

1 0

Re: Crypto Takes a Holiday (NYET, Children, etc.)
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:16 PM 7/31/94 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >> >> [remove reflective headgear, cough, adjust nomex underwear, blow whistle..] [...] > >Chill out. [...] Damn. Every time I put on that asbestos suit, Tim brings out the napalm.... >The connection, tenuous (but no more tenuous that a hundred other >threads these past two years), is that of source-level or >receiver-level blocking is central to many of the proposals here and >in general: > >* Centralized control: Source-level blocking. vs. >* Decentralized, market control: Receiver-level blocking. >Strong crypto makes the second view impossible to stop. > >Is this enough of a connection? Tim, you just made my point. It makes the whole thread moot, and any participation in what appears to be a holy war about it for other reasons (like thrashing someone theologically) is a waste of time. >I doubt I can convince Nathan Zooks that his idea for a world-wide >police state to ensure that children are not exposed to anti-Christian >material is a lousy idea, or that I can convince Mike Duvos that his idea >of mandating access to Nathan's "Funny Mentalist" children so as to >de-program them is an equally lousy idea, but I sure do hope I can >convince most of you that central control just doesn't work. Just like Tom Paine, you're reducing things to extremes, Tim. Useful when providing the ideological motivation for a particular political action, but not helpful in a jihad between people who are allies on any other significant topic of discussion on this list. Mr. Zooks can't help but believe what he does because it's a logical consequence of his deeply-held religion. Mr. Duvos' strong belief in the evils of Fun-damn-mentalism, while laudible in my *personal* opinion, seems to prevent him from ignoring an opportunity to thrash anybody with those beliefs. Neither one of them is as comical as you portray them. My point is, we shouldn't perpetuate the brawl on the field by clearing the benches in solidarity with our theological soulmates. > >Let the ideas compete, but don't argue for a Net that is what the >Unites States was ostensibly organized to avoid. Yes, and I believe there are at least a dozen newsgroups out there where this kind of ideological warfare can be played out, keeping the s/n ratio here in better shape. A slow news day on the list is not a good excuse to keep the bandwidth allocated with a pissing match about who's religious paradigm is bigger. Cordially(!), Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) "There is no difference between someone Shipwright Development Corporation who eats too little and sees Heaven and 44 Farquhar Street someone who drinks too much and sees Boston, MA 02331 USA snakes." -- Bertrand Russell (617) 323-7923

1 0

Re: Crypto Takes a Backseat (NYET, Children, etc.)
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Children, Censorship, Pornography, & Who's Right It Is to Interfere: I have asked myself at times what I would do about abuse towards a child if I were to become personally aware of one, as well as what would be the proper resolution to the fact that freedom & liberty means exposure to not only the best, but the worst that is possible in humans. I couldn't accept interfering with a family and their progeny; I couldn't advocate setting up a body of overseers to pretend that they are the ultimate authority on how to raise the young to become at least as perfect as their elders. I have settled upon the idea of alternatives: when alternatives are existent, those who need and are searching for what these alternatives provide will be able to overcome the attempted influences upon their minds & bodies; if there is a place where children could go if they found their life at home abusive or unbearable (and they were aware of this place, or these people) then they themselves could seek relief & assistance there. If they were restricted or limited in their contacts at home, then they could go to wherever else other access to information is available (and don't children accomplish this, anyway, usually to the surprise and consternation of their parents?). I think the best solution would be to make available the kind of assistance which children themselves could take it upon themselves to seek at their discretion, if they thought their situation called for it. What could anyone object, if a child was to make their discomfort & unhappiness apparent by seeking the help of another who was willing to come to their aid? This would not be interferance, but still satisfy the desires of those who have concerns about injustices to the vulnerabilities of kids. In an open environment where all things are possible, where you never know what you're going to get (in that box of chocolates), it would be best to have recovery systems in operation where the damage would be limited and correction would be possible & easier to achieve. Intelligence should make its impression upon the lives of free individuals above what the limited concepts and fears of some would propose. This implies open discussion, communication, the ability to present a better view of life, better ideas, and wiser alternatives. Children like to know that their parents care for them, that their parents are interested in their physical & mental welfare. I think that they would prefer the guidance of their parents above that of strangers, that they would prefer that those whom they admire could provide the best counsel to them, and to give their parents the credit for having the best judgement on the block. But if sympathetic guidance & open discussion is not a part of their family's atmosphere, this leaves the seeking mind to find other sources of knowledge about the way the world works, and other sources of seeming authority to fill in the vaccuum. I think that the future is calling for much preparation of the intellect towards a greater ability to deal with the abstract while not leaving the level of the concrete (not that this isn't always important). The technological innovations which are continuously being created, improved, advanced require that a person be facile in dealing with new & advanced concepts as well. This also requires that a person be able to maintain their contact with the real world and not go off in ignorance with an imagination which lacks a knowledge of real processes and of how things (life, social systems, income, etc.) are made possible. The challenge of the new frontier is magnified in the world of ideas & information; if the individual (child or adult) is to be free to indulge in all the new toys being made available, then they must have a way to deal with what s/he will confront there on every level, for personal efficacy and for effective self-defense against the things which one would/should not choose to tolerate, whatever one's age group. Blanc [Enlightening Disclaimer: These comments are derived from my own intellect, not my employer's.]

2 1

Re: FW: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Jim Dixon If you see a guy skulking in a dark alley with a gun, a knife, and a large club, do you debate whether he is of necessity about to use them? ........................................................................... No, but maybe he wouldn't be planning to use them on *me*. Maybe he was chasing a burglar or pedophile; maybe he was in danger of being abducted by little green men from Mars; how would *I* know what he was doing out there in full armor? I could watch and wait, with my cam-corder ready in case anything really interesting really happened. Blanc [Unoffical Job-related Disclaimer: I confess . . . . . . . that I am not yet ready to confess.]

1 0

swell discusions[D[D
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Gee, I'd sure like to participate in all these neat discussions going on here on cypherpunks today, but I'm busy examining these disgusting GIF'S that some sick mind uploaded to all these sites in Tennessee...... Brian Williams Extropian Cypherpatriot "Cryptocosmology: Sufficently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise." --Steve Witham "Have you ever had your phones tapped by the government? YOU WILL and the company that'll bring it to you.... AT&T" --James Speth

1 0

Re: The Terrorists are coming!
by jdd＠aiki.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In message <Pine.3.87.9408011942.A12890-0100000(a)raven.csrv.uidaho.edu> CatAshleigh writes: > first of all the only "muslim" (NOT ARAB, NO ARABS HAVE NUKES, the only How do you know? > country with nukes in the middle east is Israel) country > with a nuclear program is pakistan, and they're years away from anything > that could be stolen. Ahem. Uzbekistan is Muslim, and is also the third or fourth largest nuclear power, and also is in a part of the world where there is a long tradition of ... how do I say it gently ... greasing the palm. I spent quite a while next door in Afghanistan and am familiar with the culture. A large part of the former USSR was Muslim and there were strategic and tactical nuclear weapons scattered all over the place (tactical weapons are used as mines, fired from artillery pieces, carried by short range missiles, and dropped from fighter bombers). If none of these is unaccounted for, it is a genuine miracle. Also, there has been quite a lot of press coverage here in the UK of the defector from Saudi Arabia who claims that (a) the Saudis backed both the Iraqi and the Pakistani nuclear programs and (b) the Saudis at least have some nuclear materials. > second of all there are more deaths caused by lighting on golf courses, > ask any insurance agency. Also not true. The total number killed directly and indirectly in Japan alone by atomic bombs is certainly over 100,000. I can't believe that that many people have been killed by lightning on golf courses! Then again, we are talking about elementary arithmetic. Yes, the probability of someone being killed by lightning on a golf course tomorrow is much much higher than that of the detonation of a nuclear weapon in a populated area. But when that nuclear weapon goes off, it's not going to be just one golfer that gets scorched. > some call it pork barrel, I call it consperasy theory to protray muslims > as terroists. Pork barrel? -- Jim Dixon

3 2