December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Are "they" really the enemy? (fwd)
by jdd＠aiki.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

message forwarded at John's request follows: > From jdblair(a)tenagra.sas.muohio.edu Mon Aug 15 20:51:15 1994 > Received: from post.demon.co.uk by aiki.demon.co.uk with SMTP > id AA6112 ; Mon, 15 Aug 94 20:51:06 BST > Received: from post.demon.co.uk via puntmail for jdd(a)aiki.demon.co.uk; > Tue, 16 Aug 94 03:29:21 GMT > Received: from tenagra.sas.muohio.edu by post.demon.co.uk id aa07959; > 16 Aug 94 4:10 GMT-60:00 > Received: by phoenix.aps.muohio.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) > id AA13160; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 23:10:53 -0400 > From: Shalder Flow <jdblair(a)tenagra.sas.muohio.edu> > Message-Id: <9408160310.AA13160(a)phoenix.aps.muohio.edu> > Subject: Re: Are "they" really the enemy? > To: jdd(a)aiki.demon.co.uk > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 23:10:52 -0400 (EDT) > In-Reply-To: <6011(a)aiki.demon.co.uk> from "Jim Dixon" at Aug 15, 94 05:23:43 pm > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Length: 3835 > Status: R > > > > > In message <940815.080301.3B8.rusnews.w165w(a)sendai.cybrspc.mn.org> "Roy M. Silvernail" writes: > > > > I am an agnostic. I don't believe that 'they' exist. I believe that > > > > you have a system staffed by a random selection of the American > > > > population, somewhat skewed because people have some control over > > > > what area they work in. To work with a system, you need to understand > > > > it objectively, you need something more than incantations. > > > > > > You've been pressing this point for some time. I think the fundamental > > > flaw in your reasoning is that you are assuming the system to be the sum > > > of its parts. That's not the case, though. > > > > What I said was : "to work with a system, you need to understand it > > objectively". Then your reply was : "the fundamental flaw in your > > reasoning is ..." > > > > I did not 'reason', I said that it was necessary to reason rather than > > shout incantations. You then proceed to reason, and I of course have > > no objection to this: > > Incantations! Hocus-Pocus! Eye of newt and head of toad! > > I've been watching this for a bit (I lurk here a lot) and this discussion > is really interesting. I have some questions. How are we going to > understand the system objectively? By objectively do you mean logically, > mechanistically, magically? Its clear you can't seperate yourself from > "the system," even the "government system" as a member of this country. > Sure, you can not vote, not participate, and try to observe it, but we're > all part of those average americans that you point out make up the > government. > > > > > > In _Systemantics_, John Gall conducts a very interesting examination of > > > man-made systems and their behavior. He notes that all man-made systems > > > exhibit certain traits, among them growth, encroachment and promulgation > > > of intra-system goals. Your observation on the people employed by > > > government may be right on target, but it doesn't take into account the > > > entity of government itself. This entity cannot be touched, > > > communicated with or coerced. > > I'll have to check out this book-- it sounds very interesting. I'm > bothered by the statement "all man-made systems." I find it hard to > believe that such generalizations can be made. Is it all man made > systems of a certain size? Of Western philosophical culture? Does my > family exhibit these traits? My circle of friends? I must read this > book myself to fully understand you point. > > > > > I more or less agree. Now apply your arguments to this list as a > > man-made system. > > > > OK, I should have read along a bit farther. > > > > Put another way, even though every person within the system may be a > > > "good man", the system itself isn't necessarily good. > > > > I agree. But recall that I never spoke of goodness; I just said that > > the people who work for the government are pretty much a random > > assortment of Americans. On the other hand, there have been several > > heated statements to the effect that 'all lawyers are X' and 'all > > government employees are Y'. It is this that I disagree with the most. > > > > Makes sense... you dislike generalizations based on occupation. > > > > I'm sure part of this is a cultural difference, given your .uk address. > > > The US Gov't probably looks better from outside than it does from > > > within. > > > > [the rest filled with well stated personal opinions based on experience > refuting the above statement] > > So what do we do? It seems we've pretty much agreed that governments are > beasts beyond anyone's control, but so is _society_. So is the entire > human population. Where do we start? If, or based on the words of many > on this list, we tear down the government, will we understand the > resultant human-made system any better? > > yes, lots of questions and little statement... now fill my head with > enlightenment. > > -john. > > >

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Re: RemailNet
by die＠pig.jjm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message:

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Re: Tommy Tag Lines
by Alastair McKinstry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - ------------ > > > The NSA is more than capable enough to ignore NSA fodder, I would think. > > If you want to write something that'll get looked at by a human, you'll > > have to write the kind of thing that's likely to make you the target of an > > investigation: "Tim, the supplier screwed up--the .5 Kg Pu shipment ain't > On the "Tommy the Tourist" tag lines. To use a netticism, "<shrug>." > > The modern Net and the modern NSA will not be fooled for any > significant amount of time by such naughty words. In fact, I'm sure > they now have a set of filters for ignoring such blatant bait. > > -- > .......................................................................... > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Yes, presumably the NSA (etc) has filters to deal with such spook lines, however it must be irritating to have to include filters, and lose the efficiency of plain string searches. A large enough number of messages with the words NSA Plutonium AK-47 bomb interspersed means having to include filters, human and automated. As long as people come up with new ways to frustrate their filters, rather than just append a fixed set of words to the final lines of their message, then they have to waste (comparatively) valuable programmers and CPU time keeping their scanners up to date. Only irritating, true, but I reserve the right to irritate such buggers :-) -^- <amck(a)maths.tcd.ie> | Alastair McKinstry Finger or mail me for PGP Public Key PGP Key fingerprint = 1B F3 57 DB 83 4B 0C 63 32 A0 7C A9 E7 23 43 EB When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro -- HST -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLlCj/TzDKcCV/ZSpAQFjaQP/T7PL1wI7pi8I4S8K88jkYmPeasIyTDot bEbZhlOcRYUfOqlDFWsF6UdLwPpw91KjmTskMLCvnnUF5QysDQJeFW/PCemKfzux bDLYellNy9d0Ihs0+0V4nUTioeaVCGqU2+3mkrP77IsEVrHA6jaKrLC4YY1YF2mW G5tQHgqSId4= =g9R/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Diogenes speaks
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May wrote: > One of the Diogenes entities wrote: > > > So now do we need a Cypherpunks Nym Server? I notice that somebody > > else is using my alias... ah, well. > > > > For the record, the Diogenes who just got active on Cypherpunks isn't > > me, and, as you can tell by checking corresponding signatures, I'm > > Which is why name collision, or nym collision, is not a pressing > problem. Better to decentralize the process to local machines, to the > people who care, than to any kind of Cypherpunks Nym Server. When I registered my key with the PGP key server, I don't recall seeing another "Diogenes" key registered. I certainly had no intention of pseudonymously "impersonating" anyone. Oh well, for the record I'm.... -- "Diogenes 0xD1150D49" P.S. Also, most of our "real" names are far from being "unique" identifiers, either. I wonder how many Tim Mays I could find in the phone book in any large city? <g> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLlBCluRsd2rRFQ1JAQEzOwQAw1LCGYLFuAXbPtVAvMBUjI5cuSYFbVS8 7HSlBaPM0C+zyl7NeRsNc1krKSuEdjdOp/ujz/6YOycw3C8yudDpuWUlWuSKSKzD LtQwmBN/bNRic+4THBQCUslXbpxn4aSDirz3aaKHN3pFg7a8f+WegpzuTXClE7EC ZX/nmseF84w= =AtzK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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(Fwd)PHONOSTENOGRAPHY
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarding mail by: Sergey(a)vesson.msk.su ("Sergey V. Mineev") from list INGRAFIX. ------------------- Phonostenography is an ancient system of fast writins, that gives one the ability to classify, anatlize, and synthesize information for all languages. The course consist of 30 lessons. During the frist lesson, the 9 basic movements will be taught. These movements are casily memorized. Then 12 hours of instructional theory relative to sound and stress will be given. The remainder of the course will be used to fine tune the okills learned, also,computer cleboration of phonostenography gives one the opporunity to leurn this new technology at one's convenience. During the two month course, the principle of the confluence of symbols will be brought to perfection, along with a unified method of recording appliable to all languages in the world including Japanese and Chinese. Phonostenography gives one the ability to sond and receive many knids of information. Phonostenography is similar in appcarance to a cardiogram and it's advan tage to the user is that pen and paper are in continious contact throught out a sentence. The developen of phonostenography will assist firms and individuals in the utilizution of this new technology. -------------------- End Forward (misspellings in original). * * * * * Anyone know if this is legitimate or spoof? John

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The symbol "e$"
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First of all, I'd like to apologise to those who find the abbreviation e$ (short for electronic money on the internet) offensive. It is not a brand name. It is the result of an "aha!" which popped into the head of one of my clients, an advertising consultant, while I was talking to her about internet commerce one day a couple of months ago. What she actually did was hold up the paper she was doodling on, and in the middle of it was the letter "e" with two dollar-sign lines through it. She'd been thinking about it as the logo for a conference on internet commerce that she thought was a cool idea (me too), but I saw it as a nice icon for electronic money in general. I even merged the verticals in "$" and an "e" in Illustrator just to see what it would look like. Looks pretty cool. Since everything is done in ASCII up here on the net, the nearest approximation of it was "e$" and so I've been using it ever since. I expect that the antipathy felt to it comes from a personal reaction to my presence on this list. I'm afraid my enthusiasm, tendency to generalize from sparse data and lack of crypto knowlege upset someone who felt that I didn't fit in with his vision of the cypherpunk culture. I can't change who I am anymore than he can change who he is. I do believe that I make a contribution to this list, however, and try to restrain myself when I don't. I also believe that internet commerce and e$ (I think the word "excrable" is more than a little rude) are valid topics of conversation for this list. I have some experience in both areas, and can make a contribution to those discussions, and since this is one of the few places on the net where the state of the art in those topics is discussed and even advanced, I would like to so in peace. But that's wishful thinking, I bet. Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) "There is no difference between someone Shipwright Development Corporation who eats too little and sees Heaven and 44 Farquhar Street someone who drinks too much and sees Boston, MA 02331 USA snakes." -- Bertrand Russell (617) 323-7923

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request that ACM members write
by Linn Stanton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have been informed, (by phoning the NY office) that the person to contact at the ACM regarding amicus briefs is: Lillian Israel israel(a)acm.org I would urge all cypherpunks who are acm members to email her, requesting that the ACM file an amicus brief in the Schlafly V. PKP case. If we want those patents invalidated, a strong position by the ACM as experts on software and software patents can only help.

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No Subject
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

23. Plaintiff is informed and believes and on that basis alleges that defendant RSADSI attempted to rescind licenses granted for use of RSAREF, one of its products, even though the license agreement clearly states that the license is perpetual. that's innnteresting..

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RSA and RSAREF
by nobody＠cyberspace.nil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

nobody(a)shell.portal.com says: > 23. Plaintiff is informed and believes and on that basis alleges that > defendant RSADSI attempted to rescind licenses granted for use of RSAREF, > one of its products, even though the license agreement clearly states that > the license is perpetual. > > that's innnteresting.. It is true. There is proof.

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RE "Diogenes speaks"
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Diogenes II speaks; >When I registered my key with the PGP key server, I don't recall >seeing another "Diogenes" key registered. I certainly had no >intention of pseudonymously "impersonating" anyone. Oh well, for >the record I'm.... > -- "Diogenes 0xD1150D49" >P.S. Also, most of our "real" names are far from being "unique" >identifiers, either. I wonder how many Tim Mays I could find in >the phone book in any large city? <g> Gee I don't know Detweiler, Er I mean Diogenes how many are there? Brian Williams Extropian Cypherpatriot "Cryptocosmology: Sufficently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise." --Steve Witham "Have you ever had your phones tapped by the government? YOU WILL and the company that'll bring it to you.... AT&T" --James Speth

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