- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Email snarfing
by mean-green＠hushmail.com 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

I've recently encountered a number of email problems (delayed delivery, lost mail, etc.) both from my pop accounts and Hush. I'm not trying to be paranoid but could these be caused by problems of TLA-installed transparent SMTP, POP, and HTTP proxies at ISP's in a man-in-the-middle mode, so that they'd be sure to see all traffic, because Carnivore's storage capacity is pretty limited? Also, if missing email causes a sender to re-transmit the same message could this expose the message to some sort of replay-resend attack if the crypto isn't well coded?

2 1

Re: Preparedness
by auto301094＠hushmail.com 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim wrote: >This confusion and chaos was pretty much anticipated by Y2K worriers: >had anything disrupted transport or communications, D.C. looked to be in >bad shape. (I recall comparisons made to Montgomery County, which had >some problems with emergency systems, but seemed much better prepared. Not just by Y2K worriers, it was also anticipated in the late 60s by analysts exploring the possible use of EMP effects as an effective and non-violent strategic weapon. Here's a great quote: "Targeting only the technology is an interesting concept but who the hell is going to pay you to research it? The Pentagon knows that without just its phone system it would be the ultimate Chinese fire drill. They're not about to offer prizes for the ten easiest ways to destroy the systems they too need to survive. These things get around...." -- Herman Kahn Rather prophetic, I think. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Hush 2.0 wl8EARECAB8FAjutC3QYHGF1dG8zMDEwOTRAaHVzaG1haWwuY29tAAoJEKadvsVlUK4P 3fAAoLL38Nz35D/4d5GA6WAG858f3zyQAKCAWPaedaNJ5rnGVd3YFQEb+e3mBA== =f4JZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

WTC Attack Benefits Long Beach Ca Police -Anarchists Giving Up Legal Fight
by Subcommander Bob 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

[Reformatted for legibility. Please, if you're going to forward content, take the minute or so required to ensure it's readable. KMSelf] http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000075995sep22.story?coll=la%2Dheadlin… Anarchists Giving Up Legal Fight Court: Some charged in a riot plead no contest amid doubts they could get a fair hearing after the terrorist attacks. Others may go to trial. By LOUIS SAHAGUN, TIMES STAFF WRITER Last week's terrorism attacks on the East Coast have complicated--and, in some cases, derailed--the trials of dozens of anarchists arrested in a violent May Day confrontation with Long Beach police. The anarchists previously had been upbeat about their imminent trials, which they had hoped to turn into public forums for their radical political sentiments. Now, defense attorneys wonder if their 37 fiercely anti-capitalist clients can get a fair trial in Long Beach or anywhere else on such counts as riot, attempted riot, unlawful assembly, and conspiracy to commit a crime. Over the past week, six defendants who had promised to challenge police tactics instead have pleaded no contest or guilty to misdemeanor charges. More pleas are expected, according to deputy city prosecutor David Gordon. "When Sept. 11 occurred, they realized that no one would pay much attention to claims of police misconduct while hundreds of officers lay buried in rubble in New York," he said. "I think that by early November there will be but a handful of hard cores left wanting to go to trial." Until last week, the demonstrators had predicted exoneration, claiming they were victims of police brutality. Beyond that, they stressed that identification would be difficult because all of them had been wearing masks and black clothes in downtown Long Beach during the May 1 rally decrying corporate greed. In addition, they pointed to a federal judge's recent ruling that questioned the validity of a city law requiring 30 days' notice for a public demonstration. Now such optimism has vanished, according to one prospective expert witness for the defense, Larry George, a professor of political science at Cal State Long Beach. "The tragic events," George said, "may well have changed the background climate to the point where the defendants would be identified as enemies of the state and perpetrators of violence." About 95 people, mainly teenagers and young adults from Southern California, were arrested during the protest that erupted into a running street brawl with police in riot gear. At least a dozen demonstrators were injured, and many more reportedly suffered scrapes and bruises. Police said their officers escaped serious injuries, but some were bruised and cut by thrown rocks and grappling with demonstrators. To avoid sapping the city's legal resources if all the defendants were tried simultaneously in one courtroom, authorities divided them into small groups to be tried separately and appointed publicly financed defense attorneys. Long before the East Coast terrorism, 23 of those arrested in the demonstration were sentenced to probation and time served under plea bargains offered to them by city prosecutors. In addition, more than two dozen juveniles were released and most had the charges dropped. Two other adults are awaiting trial on felony assault charges. As of Friday, 31 more were each facing six misdemeanor charges. The first two defendants to go to trial were Louise Emily Van Der Laan, 19, and Yutaka Bazil Yokoyama, 31, both of whom pleaded no contest on Sept. 12 to six misdemeanor counts just after a jury was impaneled. Superior Court Judge Brad Andrews sentenced them to three years' probation and 30 days of community service. Their pleadings came less than an hour after Andrews dismissed a motion by defense attorney Lynda Vitale to delay the case for at least a month. "The events of Sept. 11," Vitale said in an interview, "would have made it impossible for jurors to remain unbiased and fairly weigh the evidence without thoughts of what happened." Next in line for trial is Christopher J. Harrington, who is represented by Torrance lawyer Alex Griggs. "These people were exercising their rights to free speech," Griggs said. "It would be a shame if the current climate is such that they are curtailed from doing that." Nonetheless, Griggs said his client, whose trial is scheduled to start Oct. 10, is considering the implications of avoiding trial by entering a plea. On Thursday, four other defendants pleaded no contest to at least one misdemeanor charge. Among them was Adam Steudle, 20, whose Culver City attorney Noah Allen conceded, "There's a huge fear that the events of Sept. 11 had a domino effect on jurors." The defendants insist that their goal was a peaceful downtown demonstration and march on International Workers Day behind a large banner that read: "Capitalism Stole My Life." The trouble started after some demonstrators, chanting and cursing against "the police state," threw rocks at officers, according to police. "The rocks got it going," recalled Long Beach Police Sgt. Erik Herzog. Downtown streets were shut down for four hours as police fired on some demonstrators with rubber bullets and beanbags while chasing them in and around an area known for its high-end bistros, financial institutions and hotels. Law enforcement authorities said it cost the city $100,000 in overtime pay and the use of equipment, including a helicopter, to handle the disruption. At the scene, police collected evidence including rocks, hammers, a slingshot, bags of ball bearings, pointed sticks, gas masks, plastic bags filled with human feces, bombs used by fishermen to scare off seals, and fireworks, including one item that resembled a hand grenade. Police said they also determined that some of the demonstrators had arrived wearing crude shields under their baggy black sweaters and sweat shirts: thick layers of newspaper wrapped in duct tape and strapped around their arms and over their chests. Critical to the prosecution have been 500 photographs and 14 hours of videotaped footage of the demonstration taken by police and witnesses in the vicinity of the bustling corner of 1st Street and Pine Avenue. Deputy city prosecutor Andrea Davalos said, "We went over details in the photos and video footage, frame by frame, over and over, 12 hours a day, Saturdays and Sundays. "We noted people's backpacks, shirts, logos, shoes, even the tears in their jeans," she said. "Eventually, we were able to make positive identification of each and every one of them. We know what each of them did and when they did it." Prosecutors matched that information with photographs of suspects when they were in custody and unmasked. City prosecutor Tom Reeves plans to play an edited version of the videotape in court, including slow-motion scenes of rocks being hurled at police. "They conspired to come to this city armed and disguised for the purpose of creating a riot, chaos and disorder," Gordon said. "But now there are too many ghosts floating around in the courtroom for anyone with half a brain to expose themselves to a jury or a judge." In the meantime, local support for the anarchists has been mixed. Mark Bowen, a Los Angeles Unified School District high school teacher and president of the Long Beach chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, remains skeptical of local police. It was not a crime, he said, if demonstrators cursed at police and carried signs denouncing the influence of multinational corporations. "The police were beating the anarchists with clubs, and I would not rule out the possibility that they planted evidence," Bowen said. Sharon Cotrell of the Long Beach Legal Monitoring Committee said the defendants have been "forced by circumstances to plead, which is very sad," she said. "These young people did no wrong. The police were outrageous." Some other observers are not so sure. Until Sept. 11, members of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Long Beach had been considering a proposal to back the defendants. But Pat Marr, who is a member of the church's Social Concerns Committee, said such a move seems unlikely now. "It sounds like it was a very difficult situation for police," she said. "And with the World Trade Center situation going on, it is not a good time to be in the sort of trial the arrestees are fighting." Added Marr: "Personally, their cases are on a far back burner."

1 0

COUPONS ON DEMAND
by Taylor Enterprises 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Saving money at the grocery store has never been easier! Imagine a coupon for virtually every item you purchase at the grocery store. Nearly 80% of all American households use coupons. It is this high level of coupon use by today's consumers that has created the need for "Coupons On Demand". We help you take advantage of these great savings by allowing you the opportunity to order the coupons you want when you want. Manufactures produce over $300 billion worth of grocery coupons annually. Why not take advantage of this tremendous saving opportunity? "Coupons On Demand" has made getting and using coupons of choice so easy and convenient that you can save as much and as often as you like. Major National Brands and Great Savings, too. Choose $500 In Savings From Major Brands like: Tylenol Betty Hefty Palmolive Lipton Scope Tide Nabisco Jergens Caress Heinz Crocker Post Skippy Folgers Eagle Brand This list is representative of the many fine brands available through our service. In an effort to continually upgrade the FORTUNE$ IN GROCERY COUPON$ program, name brands available may vary from time to time. .................................................................................................................................................... ........................ START SAVING $500 THE NEXT TIME YOU SHOP! Just fill out this form completely and mail it along with a check or money order for $29.95 payable to: Taylor Enterprises 225 Meetinghouse Lane Middletown, CT 06457 NAME____________________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________________ CITY__________________________STATE___________ZIP________________ PHONE(DAY)_________________________EVENING______________________ Iam sending a ______Check _______Money Order (Please check one) Allow two weeks for delivery. This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S.1618, http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S77index.html

1 0

RE: Redux: mass hate
by Aimee Farr 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

> On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: > > > ======================== > > And this, from Choate.... > > ======================== > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psychohistory/message/2810 > > <shrug> > > What ARE you smoking? I did't write that, you did. I just forwarded it > (w/o commentary other than for folks not to take up issue with me since I > didn't write it). I know you just FWDd it. I didn't know what "psychohistory" was. The term sort of lends itself to misconstruction. I've been pissed at you for months over that. ~Aimee

3 4

Re: RE: What might have happened on Sept. 11...
by Zombywuf 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Quoting "Trei, Peter" <ptrei(a)rsasecurity.com>: > What would actually happen is that there would not be an attempt > to hijack the plane. The only reason the terrorists pulled it off > on the first three was that the usual protocol for hijacks involves > landing, and letting most/all of the passengers off unharmed. > For disarmed passengers, the best option for survival was to > anticipate this protocol, and sit tight. What would actually happen is that in order to commit an act of suicidal terrorism all you'd have to do is stand up and rely on the other passengers to shoot up the plane for you. It's a great stratagy, requires almost no effort and no weapons. I everyone in the Us had that kind of attitude and a handgun how many innocents would hav been killed for looking suspicious so far? -- If you can read this you`ve gone to far

1 0

Preparedness
by Tim May 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Look, friends (and non-friends), I need to say a few words about "preparedness." I've gotten questions from list readers about where to get KI tablets, what to stock up on, etc. A kind of replay of Y2K. The odds of anything "really bad" hitting any particular reader of this list are small indeed. Even the WTC event which hit NYC only had a small chance of hitting any list members working or living in NYC. Preparedness, like insurance, is for "unlikely but serious" events. Take earthquake insurance, for example. Those of us who live here in California understand earthquakes: my first big one was being almost shaken out of bed in 1971 from a quake 100 miles to the south of me. Then a few more minor quakes, doing minor damage. And I was in Santa Cruz when the 1989 quake hit, killing about 75 statewide and doing billions in damage. And my brother was in the Northridge quake in '94, which in some ways was a more serious quake. A truly large quake, of 7.6-7.8 would cause very serious disruption. A quake of 8 or larger would kill perhaps hundreds of thousands and would be likely be "unrecoverable from." (Meaning, the best that could happen to survivors would be their evacuation out of the area to a fresh start in Missouri or Iowa or wherever. California would be too disrupted--freeways, rail, aquaducts, everything--for recovery within a lifetime.) So, how to prepare for this? I keep a pack loaded with supplies and clothing for several days. And at my house I have stored water (about 50 gallons immediately drinkable, and a Katadyn ceramic filter, and potentially a few hundred other gallons of water). Food. Medical supplies. Guns. And yet do I _expect_ an earthquake? No. But the costs of keeping these items is not great, and the benefits IF the unlikely happens are good. How does this relate to the war? A nuclear exchange is probably unlikely, just as it was unlikely in the 1960s. But could it happen? Yes. Especially between countries in the near east. Would I build a bomb shelter? No, and I haven't. Not even a fallout shelter. How about potassium iodide tablets (to "load" the thyroid)? I bought some from Nitro-Pak (www.nitro-pak.com) a couple of years ago. Inexpensive. "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. My advice is to stock up to your level of comfort and paranoia. Don't buy dried food and stuff you wouldn't eat anyway, but if you go to a supermarket, buy some extra cans, boxes, etc. of whatever you normally eat. (Rice is cheap and billions of people live on it. Macaroni, boxes of cereal, etc. All are better than nothing.) If you don't already have a gun, I guess the messages over the last several years haven't been persuasive, so I won't start here. Of the threats to consider over the coming months, I happen to think the outbreak of a virulent plague-like disease, released deliberately, is more likely than a nuclear war affecting the U.S. directly. (Though a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India, which could happen in this upcoming war, would have enormous effects on the U.S. Even "survivalist" effects.) This plague could be smallpox, bubonic plague, or a virulent influenza. Germ warfare research has been going on for several decades, despite public claims that such work was abandoned. Iraq had capabilities and may be lending support to others. The Russians had a major program to produce cannisters of "militarized smallpox." The world thought the smallpox critter had been completely eradicated, as it had "in the wild." But it lives on inside the facilities of Biopreparat, Fort Dedrick, and, perhaps, the suicide flasks of Al Qaida. The best defense against such plagues is _avoidance_. If you hear reports in coming weeks or months of large numbers of people showing up sick at emergency rooms, it's time to close the doors and windows and hunker down for as long as is possible. Standing in long lines to buy batteries and food and water is not the place to be. (If I hear of such reports, I _may_ risk one quick run to the nearest grocery store to stock up, expecting that most of the sheeple will have either heard nothing or not have yet panicked. And an outbreak in Atlanta or Chicago is not likely to hit other regions for a few more days...) Ask yourself what you would need to "ride it out" for at least a few weeks and you will know what you should be be buying before there are lines. Odds are pretty good that nothing this dire will happen. This is the nature of risk, insurance, and preparedness. But better to be prepared than to be helpless. --Tim May

9 11

ugent attention
by johnson olu 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

First Bank Plc First Bank House Marina Lagos Urgent and confidential. Dear Sir I am mr Olu Johnson the bills and exchange director at the first bank of Nigeria plc, I am writing this letter to solicit for support and assistance from you to carry out this business opportunity in my department. Lying in an inactive account is the sum of us$30.7million belonging to a foreign customer(mr James Kelly) who happens to be deceased. he died with his wife and two children in a plane crash on board an ADC airline flight at the Egirin river Lagos Nigeria in november 1996. Ever since he died the bank has been expecting his next of kin to come and claim these fund. To this effect, we can not release the money unless someone applies for it as next of kin, as indicated in our banking guideline. Unfortunately he has no family member in Nigeria or America who are aware of the existence of the money(as he was a contractor with the federal Republic of Nigeria). At this juncture i have decided to do business with you in collaboration with officials that matter in the bank, to this effect we solicit your assistance in applying as the next of kin then the money will be released to you. As we do not want this money to go into the bank treasury as an unclaimed bill. The banking law and guideline stipulates that if such money(s) remains unclaimed for a period of up to four years(5yrs) the money will be transferred in to the banks treasury as an unclaimed bill. Our request for a foreigner as next of kin is occasioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner and a Nigerian cannot stand as next of kin. Sir, 20% of the money will be your share as a foreign partner and your assistance to actualise this business 5% for any expenses incured. Thereafter my partner and i will visit your country with your help once the money hits your account for disbursement according to the percentage indicated. To effect the immediate transfer of the fund to you as agreed, you must apply first to the bank as the next of kin to the decease, indicating your bank account number and location were the money will be remitted to then we will follow up all formalities for the transaction. Upon receipt of your reply, i will send to you by fax or mail the text of the application, as soon as you receive the text i will further clarify you in other issues as to affect the business. Await to hear from you Best Regards Johnson Olu plese copy your reply to olujohnson(a)altavista.co.uk

1 0

RE: Redux: mass hate
by Aimee Farr 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Choate: > On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: > > > I know you just FWDd it. > > > > I didn't know what "psychohistory" was. The term sort of lends itself to > > misconstruction. I've been pissed at you for months over that. Just admitting my ignorance. :) > Ah, I'm sorry. I completely misinterpreted your comment (considering its > neighbors). I wasn't poking at them, either. Tim is just hilarious when he wants to be, and Declan included the terrorism variable in his comments -- and I didn't say elicit anything about a particular event, or why I was asking. Furthermore, I am a bitch, and the terrorism variable played out. (You're all SOBs in my book, but you're insightful SOBs at times.) I read a little on your terminology. Interesting, thank you. ~Aimee

1 0

WTC Attack Benefits Long Beach Ca Police -Anarchists Giving Up Legal Fight
by Subcommander Bob 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000075995sep22.story?coll=la%2Dheadlin… Anarchists Giving Up Legal Fight Court: Some charged in a riot plead no contest amid doubts they could get a fair hearing after the terrorist attacks. Others may go to trial. By LOUIS SAHAGUN, TIMES STAFF WRITER Last week's terrorism attacks on the East Coast have complicated--and, in some cases, derailed--the trials of dozens of anarchists arrested in a violent May Day confrontation with Long Beach police. The anarchists previously had been upbeat about their imminent trials, which they had hoped to turn into public forums for their radical political sentiments. Now, defense attorneys wonder if their 37 fiercely anti-capitalist clients can get a fair trial in Long Beach or anywhere else on such counts as riot, attempted riot, unlawful assembly, and conspiracy to commit a crime. Over the past week, six defendants who had promised to challenge police tactics instead have pleaded no contest or guilty to misdemeanor charges. More pleas are expected, according to deputy city prosecutor David Gordon. "When Sept. 11 occurred, they realized that no one would pay much attention to claims of police misconduct while hundreds of officers lay buried in rubble in New York," he said. "I think that by early November there will be but a handful of hard cores left wanting to go to trial." Until last week, the demonstrators had predicted exoneration, claiming they were victims of police brutality. Beyond that, they stressed that identification would be difficult because all of them had been wearing masks and black clothes in downtown Long Beach during the May 1 rally decrying corporate greed. In addition, they pointed to a federal judge's recent ruling that questioned the validity of a city law requiring 30 days' notice for a public demonstration. Now such optimism has vanished, according to one prospective expert witness for the defense, Larry George, a professor of political science at Cal State Long Beach. "The tragic events," George said, "may well have changed the background climate to the point where the defendants would be identified as enemies of the state and perpetrators of violence." About 95 people, mainly teenagers and young adults from Southern California, were arrested during the protest that erupted into a running street brawl with police in riot gear. At least a dozen demonstrators were injured, and many more reportedly suffered scrapes and bruises. Police said their officers escaped serious injuries, but some were bruised and cut by thrown rocks and grappling with demonstrators. To avoid sapping the city's legal resources if all the defendants were tried simultaneously in one courtroom, authorities divided them into small groups to be tried separately and appointed publicly financed defense attorneys. Long before the East Coast terrorism, 23 of those arrested in the demonstration were sentenced to probation and time served under plea bargains offered to them by city prosecutors. In addition, more than two dozen juveniles were released and most had the charges dropped. Two other adults are awaiting trial on felony assault charges. As of Friday, 31 more were each facing six misdemeanor charges. The first two defendants to go to trial were Louise Emily Van Der Laan, 19, and Yutaka Bazil Yokoyama, 31, both of whom pleaded no contest on Sept. 12 to six misdemeanor counts just after a jury was impaneled. Superior Court Judge Brad Andrews sentenced them to three years' probation and 30 days of community service. Their pleadings came less than an hour after Andrews dismissed a motion by defense attorney Lynda Vitale to delay the case for at least a month. "The events of Sept. 11," Vitale said in an interview, "would have made it impossible for jurors to remain unbiased and fairly weigh the evidence without thoughts of what happened." Next in line for trial is Christopher J. Harrington, who is represented by Torrance lawyer Alex Griggs. "These people were exercising their rights to free speech," Griggs said. "It would be a shame if the current climate is such that they are curtailed from doing that." Nonetheless, Griggs said his client, whose trial is scheduled to start Oct. 10, is considering the implications of avoiding trial by entering a plea. On Thursday, four other defendants pleaded no contest to at least one misdemeanor charge. Among them was Adam Steudle, 20, whose Culver City attorney Noah Allen conceded, "There's a huge fear that the events of Sept. 11 had a domino effect on jurors." The defendants insist that their goal was a peaceful downtown demonstration and march on International Workers Day behind a large banner that read: "Capitalism Stole My Life." The trouble started after some demonstrators, chanting and cursing against "the police state," threw rocks at officers, according to police. "The rocks got it going," recalled Long Beach Police Sgt. Erik Herzog. Downtown streets were shut down for four hours as police fired on some demonstrators with rubber bullets and beanbags while chasing them in and around an area known for its high-end bistros, financial institutions and hotels. Law enforcement authorities said it cost the city $100,000 in overtime pay and the use of equipment, including a helicopter, to handle the disruption. At the scene, police collected evidence including rocks, hammers, a slingshot, bags of ball bearings, pointed sticks, gas masks, plastic bags filled with human feces, bombs used by fishermen to scare off seals, and fireworks, including one item that resembled a hand grenade. Police said they also determined that some of the demonstrators had arrived wearing crude shields under their baggy black sweaters and sweat shirts: thick layers of newspaper wrapped in duct tape and strapped around their arms and over their chests. Critical to the prosecution have been 500 photographs and 14 hours of videotaped footage of the demonstration taken by police and witnesses in the vicinity of the bustling corner of 1st Street and Pine Avenue. Deputy city prosecutor Andrea Davalos said, "We went over details in the photos and video footage, frame by frame, over and over, 12 hours a day, Saturdays and Sundays. "We noted people's backpacks, shirts, logos, shoes, even the tears in their jeans," she said. "Eventually, we were able to make positive identification of each and every one of them. We know what each of them did and when they did it." Prosecutors matched that information with photographs of suspects when they were in custody and unmasked. City prosecutor Tom Reeves plans to play an edited version of the videotape in court, including slow-motion scenes of rocks being hurled at police. "They conspired to come to this city armed and disguised for the purpose of creating a riot, chaos and disorder," Gordon said. "But now there are too many ghosts floating around in the courtroom for anyone with half a brain to expose themselves to a jury or a judge." In the meantime, local support for the anarchists has been mixed. Mark Bowen, a Los Angeles Unified School District high school teacher and president of the Long Beach chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, remains skeptical of local police. It was not a crime, he said, if demonstrators cursed at police and carried signs denouncing the influence of multinational corporations. "The police were beating the anarchists with clubs, and I would not rule out the possibility that they planted evidence," Bowen said. Sharon Cotrell of the Long Beach Legal Monitoring Committee said the defendants have been "forced by circumstances to plead, which is very sad," she said. "These young people did no wrong. The police were outrageous." Some other observers are not so sure. Until Sept. 11, members of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Long Beach had been considering a proposal to back the defendants. But Pat Marr, who is a member of the church's Social Concerns Committee, said such a move seems unlikely now. "It sounds like it was a very difficult situation for police," she said. "And with the World Trade Center situation going on, it is not a good time to be in the sort of trial the arrestees are fighting." Added Marr: "Personally, their cases are on a far back burner."

1 0