- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA
by xganon 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Ryan Lackey provides a detailed analysis, but he gets off to a bad start right at the beginning: > DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, especially if > mandated, especially if implemented in the most secure practical > manner (running the system in system-high DRM mode and not allowing > raw hardware access to anything at any time on the platform, rather > than trying to allow concurrent open and closed operation a la CMW), > and in a closed manner for revenue protection purposes (only > rich people get to sign the code, or at least only the keys of rich > people are widely distributed by default, and anything else requires > special operations by the user), are evil. So DRM systems are evil? Why? What makes them evil? There is no justification offered for this claim! Are we all supposed to accept it as obvious? And note that when someone says X is true, especially when Y, they also mean that X is true even if not Y. Therefore, Ryan is claiming that DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, even if not mandated, even if not implemented in the most secure manner, even if not in a closed manner, are evil. That is, even voluntary and not all that secure DRM systems are evil! How can any software which people adopt voluntarily be evil? If Alice releases music with DRM restrictions, and Bob runs DRM compliant software to play it, which of them is evil? Is it Alice, for releasing her music with restrictions? Is it just because she encoded them in a file format, or is it evil to release any creative product and ask people not to copy it freely? Or is Bob evil, for voluntarily choosing to run DRM compliant software in order to listen to Alice's music? Or perhaps the software developer is the evil one, for giving people more options and choices in the world? One other point must be mentioned while we wait for clarification: > What I'm genuinely in terror of is #5. I'd be fairly comfortable with > (1,2) from philsophical grounds (and actually, some of the uses in #2 > are things which interest me). 1,2,3 are probably tolerable even from > a wanting-widespread-piracy standpoint, and really, anything but #5 > (and to some extent, #4) is tolerable in terms of protecting computers > for anti-government use. Are we to read this as an endorsement of the "wanting-widespread-piracy standpoint"? Is the implicit assumption here that widespread piracy is GOOD??? Well, that would certainly explain why DRM is evil in Ryan's eyes. If so, in Ryan's ideal world, every creative artist has no choice but to do nothing, or release their works with permission that anyone can copy them for free. This is not just an unfortunate consequence of technological reality, in this view. It is an outcome to be desired and even fought for, to the extent that voluntary technologies which would give people other options must be opposed from the beginning. The only evil here is the viewpoint that people must not have choices, that they must be forced into a Communist from-each-according-to-his- ability system where creative people have no choice or control over the products of their minds. Surely a libertarian such as Ryan can see the horrific evil involved in taking away freedom and choice from creative people, and he will clarify his words above.

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Get Instant Term Life Quotes for FREE... U
by Lauren 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

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Delivery failure
by MAILER-DAEMON＠yahoo.com 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Message from yahoo.com. Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). <elschaef(a)yahoo.com>: Sorry your message to elschaef(a)yahoo.com cannot be delivered. This account has been disabled or discontinued [#102]. <jdavid1066(a)yahoo.com>: Sorry your message to jdavid1066(a)yahoo.com cannot be delivered. This account has been disabled or discontinued [#102]. --- Original message follows.

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Re: Diffie-Hellman and MITM
by Marcel Popescu 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

From: "Mike Rosing" <eresrch(a)eskimo.com> > > Is there a defense against MITM for Diffie-Hellman? Is there another > > protocol with equivalent properties, with such a defense? (Secure > > communications between two parties, with no shared secret and no out-of-band > > abilities, on an insecure network.) > > What do you mean by no shared secret? The point of DH is that you > get a shared secret. I guess I should have said "no *previously* shared secret". > Check out MQV protocol for MITM defense and forward secrecy. It > uses permenent public keys and ephemeral public keys for each > session. In any protocol, the out-of-band check of the public > keys is still a "good thing". Well... I assume an active MITM (like my ISP). He's able to intercept my public key request and change it. Plus, I now realize I should have put an even harder condition - no previously shared *information*, even if it's public. I need to know if two complete strangers can communicate securely over an insecure network, even if they communicate through an untrusted party. Wasn't there a protocol for two prisoners communicating through an untrusted guard? Thanks, Mark

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biometric containment (privacy, fingerprints, dead utah blondes)
by Optimizzin Al-gorithym 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

So the neighbors of that dead blonde Utah jailbait volunteered their fingerprints, presumably for discounting them, though possibly not. In any case: how could a neighbor-friendly cypherpunk give prints which were *not* entered into the Fed Oracle? Only way I can think of is to physically control your deadtree print sheet and require the Feebs to manually enter the dozen topo-feature-locations of your print from a memoryless measuring device, (eg, a glass lens and reticle) in front of you, then take the print sheet with you. How you verify that the imaging system is memoryless is up to you. Comments?

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Cable
by Jon22＠applewired.com 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Hi. I appreciate your interest in Cable Descramblers and Cable equipment. If you are interested in a brand new DIGITAL CABLE DESCRAMBLER that decodes and receives ALL CHANNELS and is compatible with ALL "DIGITAL" and "ANALOG" CABLE SYSTEMS then please get back to me. Thats right. This Descrambler works with DIGITAL cable. Let me know. John 8894bvKA6-144nZWr243l19

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Re: on 'evil' as an abbreviation
by Nomen Nescio 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

> Evil = bad = counter to our goals. One of our goals is to have > general-purpose computers widely available. A DRM layer between us > and the hardware is counter to that goal, ergo, undesirable from this > perspective. > > Its like a governor in a car. Do you want one in yours? Are you willing > to pay for the decreased driving flexibility and decreased reliability > (extra parts, after all) of your car? Sure, I might put a governor in my car if it would lower my insurance rates. And I might use a DRM system if it let me download music and video that I wanted, while remaining compliant with the creators' wishes. > What makes you think you can require one in mine? We're talking about voluntary systems here. Ryan said that DRM was evil even if voluntary.

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CIBLEZ ET DEMARCHEZ GRATUITEMENT VOS PROSPECTS PAR CENTAINES DE MILLIERS
by VOS PROSPECTS 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

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CONGRATULATIONS: FINAL NOTICE!
by wbdl_interpromo＠worldmail.ac 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

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Times Online - Congress unites in fear of world 'government'
by Jim Choate 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-344149,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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