- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA
by Anonymous 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

This is from http://mondediplo.com/2000/06/15publicgood: "What is a public good? This question can best be answered by looking at the counterpart, a private good. Private goods are typically traded in markets. Buyers and sellers meet through the price mechanism. If they agree on a price, the ownership or use of the good (or service) can be transferred. Thus private goods tend to be excludable. They have clearly identified owners; and they tend to be rival. For example, others cannot enjoy a piece of cake, once consumed. "Public goods have just the opposite qualities. They are non-excludable and non-rival in consumption. An example is a street sign. It will not wear out, even if large numbers of people are looking at it; and it would be extremely difficult, costly and highly inefficient to limit its use to only one or a few persons and try to prevent others from looking at it, too. A traffic light or clean air is a further example. " Robert Hettinga writes: > A signed, much less encrypted, copy of a piece of digital information, or > even a digital service, for that matter, (teleoperated machine commands, > or a live video feed answering a question, and, of course, computation > and bandwidth) is, in fact, an "ordinary, private" good. How can a signed piece of digital information be a private good, by the definitions above? It is non-rival: if someone enjoys the good, he can give it to others and he will still be able to enjoy it. And it is non-excludable: if you give it to some people, they can share it with others and you can't prevent that, as Napster proved. Even encrypting the information won't help (unless to a key embedded in some DRM related hardware). The recipient can still decrypt it and share it. It is still non-rival and non-excludable. Digital services, on the other hand, may well be rival and excludable, and so do qualify as private goods. Hence there is no need for DRM mechanisms to control services. Most observers believe this is a big reason for the software industry's interest in "web services", that they will not be vulnerable to software piracy. Since such services are excludable they are not relevant to our debate over DRM and TCPA. But you claimed that signed pieces of digital information were private goods. Please explain. Are you using standard economic definitions, or are you inventing your own terminology?

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Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
by Mail Delivery System 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

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Publishers sue over pop-up ads
by Major Variola (ret) 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

[similarity to 'prohibitions' on deep-linking and general censorship?] Publishers sue over pop-up ads NEW YORK (AP) -- Complaining of parasitical behavior, some of the nation's largest news publishers are suing Internet advertising company Gator Corp. over software that triggers pop-up ads when surfers visit their Web sites. <snip> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/07/01/online.ads.ap/index.html

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01 Jul '02

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Piracy is wrong
by Anonymous 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

This shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it is necessary. Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. It inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage of others. Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to reduce piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is their purpose. When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like on that gift, and you are free to accept them or not. If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. If you take the song without paying for it, you are again receiving this gift without following the conditions that were placed on it as part of the gift being offered. You are taking advantage of the artist's creativity without them receiving the compensation they required. This isn't complicated. It's just basic ethics. It's a matter of honesty and trust. When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms acceptable, you simply refuse. You don't take advantage by taking what they provide and refusing to do your part. That's cheating.

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on 'evil' as an abbreviation (Re: maximize best case, worst case, or average case?)
by Major Variola (ret) 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

At 07:25 PM 6/30/02 -0500, xganon wrote: >Ryan Lackey provides a detailed analysis, but he gets off to a bad start >right at the beginning: > >> DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, especially if >> mandated, especially if implemented in the most secure practical >> manner (running the system in system-high DRM mode and not allowing >> raw hardware access to anything at any time on the platform...are evil. > >So DRM systems are evil? Why? What makes them evil? There is no >justification offered for this claim! Are we all supposed to accept it >as obvious? Evil = bad = counter to our goals. One of our goals is to have general-purpose computers widely available. A DRM layer between us and the hardware is counter to that goal, ergo, undesirable from this perspective. Its like a governor in a car. Do you want one in yours? Are you willing to pay for the decreased driving flexibility and decreased reliability (extra parts, after all) of your car? What makes you think you can require one in mine? Speaking only for myself

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Re: Ross's TCPA paper
by Barney Wolff 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

A pseudonym that I can give up at will and that can never afterwards be traced to me is equivalent to an anonym. I'm not suggesting that anonymity be outlawed, or that every merchant be required to reject anonymous or pseudonymous customers. All I'm suggesting is that "small" merchants MUST NOT be required to accept such customers. On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 08:38:29AM -0700, bear wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: > > >The trouble I have with this is that I'm not only a consumer, I'm > >also a merchant, selling my own professional services. And I just > >will not, ever, perform services for an anonymous client. That's > >my choice, and the gov't will take it away only when they can pry > >it from my cold dead fingers. :) > > Are you one of those who makes no distinction between anonymity > and pseudonymity? 'Cause I've been talking about pseudonymity, > and all your answers have been talking about anonymity. > > Bear -- Barney Wolff I never met a computer I didn't like.

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01 Jul '02

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