- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Crypto-making vs Crypto-breaking
by Anonymous 05 May '03

05 May '03

Eric Cordian writes: > Let's see. The mint picks a prime, p, a generator, g, and a random number > k, and publishes (p, g, g^k mod p). > > The mint then signs stuff by raising it to the k power mod p, and not > telling anyone what k is. > > We blind coins by picking a random b, and sending the coin times g^b to > the mint, and after the mint raises it to the k power and sends it back, > we can reverse engineer coin^k. A few years ago I discovered that this allows the bank to "mark" the cash. The bank can use a different exponent k' instead of the exponent k it is supposed to be using, on certain withdrawals. On every deposit, it checks the incoming coin using both k and k', and is able to quietly identify the marked withdrawals. In more detail: during withdrawal, the user submits y * g^b. The bank, to mark the cash, raises it to the k' power rather than the k power. The creates y^k' * g^bk'. The user unsuspectingly unblinds by calculating g^kb and dividing it, leaving y^k' * g^(b(k'-k)). This is what is later submitted to the bank, along with y. The bank, at this point, knows y, k, k', g, and the product above. It does not know b. It can calculate y^k' and divide to get g^(b(k'-k)). It can raise to the inverse power of (k'-k) to get g^b. Now it can multiply by y to get y * g^b. This is the same value which was submitted to be signed in the first place. By keeping a record of the values which were signed using the special k' exponent, the bank can look back and see which one this one is, thereby linking the deposit to the withdrawal, which is exactly what blinding is supposed to prevent. In order to avoid this, the bank can prove that it operated correctly (that is, it raised its input to the same k power that g is raised to in the public g^k value) using a zero-knowledge proof. I believe the latest version of the Lucre software does this. However, it's possible that the Lucre ZK proof is only honest-verifier zero knowledge. An honest-verifier ZK proof is one which is ZK only if the verifier follows the protocol; for example, when it is supposed to choose a random value, it in effect flips a coin. The point of a ZK proof is that a transcript is unconvincing to third parties, because the verifier would have been able to create a fake transcript. He could do so by, in effect, working backwards from chosen results to figure out what his coin flips would have had to be. However, if the verifier chooses his bits using a fixed sequence like a strong PRNG, then when he reveals the transcript, he can also show that his "random" bits were determined by his PRNG seed. This proves that he did not in fact have the flexibility to choose his bits by working backwards, and therefore the proof is convincing to a third party. In this case, the transcript of the "ZK proof" would in fact prove that the bank knew the k of g^k. The transcript is therefore a signature, and in conjunction with the coin, it is arguably a blind signature. Blind signatures are patented until July, 2005. Given that the whole point of this application of Wagner blinding was to avoid the Chaum blind signature patent; that that patent expires in two years; that the current licensee has shown no effort to enforce the patent; that Wagner blinding also risks falling under another patent, on Chaum's undeniable signature; and that the bank's operation even with Wagner blinding looks an awful lot like a blind signature; then why not just use Chaum's blinding? It would be enormously simpler, and safer too. It's far more widely analyzed and there are a number of improvements in the literature.

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Weekly Social, Project Planning, Open Forge - RIP
by Jim Choate 05 May '03

05 May '03

Asymmetric Clustering... Distributed Name Space... Global Sign-on... Guerrilla Networking... Open Source Technology... Do these words make your heart beat faster and your breath go shallow? If so then perhaps you should become involved with Hangar 18. We are a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source technology. We don't focus on any one form of technology but instead focus on real world applications in grid or large scale distributed computing. Time: May 8, 2003 Every Thursday, excluding national holidays 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) http://open-forge.org Location: Buffet Palace, N. Lamar @ I-35 @ Anderson. In the parking lot in front of Hobby Lobby. The location varies from week to week so be sure to check with an active Hangar 18 member (or join the mailing list!) for more information. Identification: We'll be the group with the Plan 9 OS box on the table...;) As some of you who come to the weekly meetings will be aware there has been a cash flow issue regarding the T1 and extending projects through the Open Forge domain. Well it finally came to a head after nearly 18 months of trying to find a way around the issue. Because of cash flow and an increasingly unstable work environment with respect to the other sponsors of the T1 feed it will be phased out over the summer. This does not mean any immediate changes for at least the next 4-6 weeks. It does mean we will lose the T1 and possibly the Phantoms's Mansion site. We will continue to operate the SSZ site and at the appropriate time the resources hosted through Open Forge will be migrated to SSZ. One of the first two things I need to do is up my bandwidth from the current ISDN to a SDSL (~384kb/s both ways v the current 128kb/s total). One nice thing about this transfer is my monthly net feed bill will go down by about $50. So I'm not complaining about that. It also means that I'll take over the operation of the DNS so we will once again have full support for alternate domain names (ie .ssz, .cpunks, etc.). The other aspect will be the tranfer of all the current services (eg mailing lists) over to SSZ. In the interim I'll be working to add new services (eg IRC) on the SSZ site since its clear no such work will happen on Open Forge. We will give at least a couple of weeks notice prior to the change so hopefully it won't take anyone by too big a surprise. Rob and I had been in the proces of upgrading the Open Forge Hangar 18 page. We will continue with that effort but will mirror all material on SSZ so that when Open Forge goes down the transition should be very smooth. This will -not- effect any services or projects other than the basic services on Open Forge. The OAON, 802.11a/b, 802.16, 900MHz repeater, Plan 9 Auth services & namespace, development services (Anyone using Cons currently?), Squeak VRML, etc. will -not- suffer as a result. Further, this will -not- effect the commercial Open Source technology development efforts planned via In Silica other than perhaps allowing us to move forward on some specific projects -earlier- than we had currently planned. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Austin Cypherpunks - Montly Physical Meeting
by Jim Choate 05 May '03

05 May '03

Time: May 13, 2003 Second Tuesday of each month 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) Location: Central Market HEB Cafe 38th and N. Lamar Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables. If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside the building proper. Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography" book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick. Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr/index.html#austincpunks -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Today in DC...
by Declan McCullagh 05 May '03

05 May '03

BIOTECHNOLOGY National Academies Meeting of the Committee to Review Proposals from former Soviet Biological Weapons Scientists in the FSU, May 5-6. Highlights: 9 a.m. - Open session: briefings by Defense Department, State Department and Civilian Research and Development Foundation representatives Location: National Academies, 500 5th St., NW, Washington, D.C.. Contact: Sara Gray, 202-334-2923; e-mail, sgray(a)nas.edu POLITICS Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations News conference to release previously closed transcripts of executive sessions held by the subcommittee during the McCarthy era. Participants: Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, chairman, Governmental Affairs Committee; Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and Donald Ritchie, associate Senate historian Location: 325 Russell Senate Office Building. 9:30 a.m. Contact: Bonnie Heald, 202-224-6134 or Kathleen Long, 202-228-3685 **REVISED**

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unsubcribe
by Torsten Ulrich 05 May '03

05 May '03

unsubcribe

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Re: China (was Mike Hawash)
by Tyler Durden 05 May '03

05 May '03

Bill Stewart wrote... >From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart(a)pobox.com> >To: Justin <justin(a)soze.net> >CC: cypherpunks(a)ssz.com >Subject: Re: China (was Mike Hawash) >Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 23:04:21 -0700 > >At 02:27 AM 05/02/2003 +0000, Justin wrote: >>At 2003-05-02 00:25 +0000, Bill Stewart wrote: >> > Interesting. I've recently been reading a book by a guy who spent >> > much of the mid-90s illegally tramping around the ethnic areas of >> > western China (particularly the Tibet/Burma borders with Sichuan and >> > Yunnan) trying not to get thrown out of the country too often. >> >>Is that sort of like documented immigrants (not undocumented _citizens_ >>like Mexicans who live within earshot of the border, speak no english, >>pay no taxes, and think they're part of Aztlan > >No, it's more like the US in ~1870 or 1890 - the big neighboring territory >had pretty much been conquered, though a lot of them still spoke Spanish, >and the other big neighboring territory had been reconquered, >but a lot of larger minority ethnic groups like the Navajo hadn't been >totally wiped out, though the smaller tribes were gradually getting >killed off or having their land stolen and getting forced onto smaller >reservations and having US military forts put in the middle to govern them >(which was bad) or whatever the Bureau of Indian Affairs sent out to >"help" them and "civilize" them (which was ultimately more devastating), >and there was a deliberate attempt to wipe out the local economy >(there's no real equivalent to killing off the buffalo, >but periodically "taxing" all their livestock is sort of similar.) Well, I'd say it's more complex than that. Until recently, the view in China towards minorities was that Minorities are fine and dandy as long as they don't exhibit traits that are too obviously non-Han while presenting a threat to Han-dominated areas. Now, it's more like "Hum...how can we turn a profit with these folks? Tourism? Manufacturing?" Overall, the Chinese have never seemed to have the bloodlust that western countires had...they'd always prefer to absorb another culture rather than kill it outright. And yes, while in China I tried to travel to Tibet with a Japanese buddhist monk, but Tibet was suddenly "closed" due to the 80s riots in Lhasa (and look on a map...that's a LARGE area to simply declare "closed", but it was fairly enforceable due to the few viable routes into Tibet). IN addition, in 1988 there were many cities closed to foriegners. But that's mostly all gone now, as joint foerign-market-oriented factories proliferate in more and more parts of China. Right now, you'd have to say that China was fairly "free" from an economic standpoint, and not free politically, with all other areas somewhere in between. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Zundel's Mouth Declared Weapon of Mass Destruction
by Eric Cordian 05 May '03

05 May '03

The tale of Holocaust commentator Ernst Zundel has taken another strange turn. As you may know, Zundel is seeking political asylum in Canada, after being run out of the US at gunpoint over an expired visitor's visa, at the behest of Israeli sympathizers in the US state department. Now his asylum hearing has been quashed by the Canadian government serving his with a document declaring him a "national security risk." The certificate suspends his application for asylum, and permits him to be deported after a secret hearing at the Federal Court. The apparent goal of all of this is to deport Zundel to Germany, where he may be charged under that nation's anti-free speech laws with saying things that offend Jews. Immigration Minister Denis Coderre said that Zundel was an individual whose presence promotes violence. It would seem to me that if Jews commit violence because they do not like Mr. Zundel's comments, then the solution would be to arrest the Jewish lawbreakers, as opposed to declaring Mr. Zundel a national security threat. No doubt I'll get death threats for articulating that opinion. http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030503/UZUNDN/ Speaking of death threats, that's exactly what the Santa Rosa Junior College's student newspaper, the "Oak Leaf" got after publishing a little essay by Mark McGuire titled "Is anti-Semitism ever the result of Jewish behavior?" http://www.pressdemocrat.com/local/news/02srjc_a1.html The newspaper had to close its offices, and board up its mail slot, amid violent graphic death threats against the 19 year old student newspaper editor, who has now been offered a police escort on campus. Making death threats is supposed to be against the law, but again, different rules apparently apply if you're a protected class. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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Randomness
by Ben Laurie 05 May '03

05 May '03

People might be interested in a paper I've written on randomness: http://www.apache-ssl.org/randomness.pdf. Comments, as always, are more than welcome. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff

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Re: Hippies Banning Crysotile
by Tyler Durden 05 May '03

05 May '03

James Donald wrote... >Not this cypherpunk -- the evils of asbestos are ninety percent >hot air. That's about the right percentage. >In reality, if someone is >exposed to enough asbestos to be a problem, he is painfully >aware of it. Only a minuscule minority among those now >receiving stupendous awards were exposed to that level of >asbestos. Not really. This party line is equally hot air. Basically, there are two main modes of asbestos related disease: asbestosis and melothemeoma (I probably spelled that last one wrong.) The Manville miners inhaled huge quantities of Asbestos and almost all of them died of asbestosis. This can occur when exposed to any type of asbestos in large quantities. Another form of asbestos-related death is a whole different story. Melothemeoma is due to when the non-serpentine types of asbestos pierce the lung wall and push stray genetic refuse into cell nuclei, starting a really bad lung cancer. The form of asbestos most closely associated with this is crocidilyte, which is needle-like and a beautiful dark blue in color. That form of asbestos can cause cancer even in very low exposures. Forunately, its exceedingly rare. Back in the late 80s I only saw perhaps half a dozen samples of it in the course of viewing many thousands of asbestos. As for floor tiles using asbestos, I would never bother removing them...the asbestos in them probably mitigates far more fire-related danger than it causes exposure-related risk. As for hanging clumps of Asbestos down in your boiler room, close the door and don't let the kids play down there. Don't abate, as you'll probably create more exposure than if you left it alone. Summary: your odds of dying due to low levels of asbestos exposure are exceedingly low, but decidedly nonzero. -TD > --digsig > James A. Donald > 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG > 8gm9gCyQYFsIMdu+WBfQDsch65rBj3PGxaGDX58F > 4/6al9vqF/sHVMF7iikxBjrsqugs4W7kRkOUPPUFA _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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RE: Crypto-making vs Crypto-breaking
by Patrick 05 May '03

05 May '03

(I didn't see this come back through the list, so I'm sending it again.) > > Perhaps you'd care to publish your p, g, and g^k here on the list, so we > can begin hacking them while you finish your pre-launch checkout. :) > -- > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ Lucrative mints support an arbitrary number of simultaneous series, so the crypto components will vary, but here's a set to work on. p is straight from Ben Laurie's Lucre paper (8.1). (8.2) gives us a good g as well: 4. g=4 p=ffffffffffffffffc90fdaa22168c234c4c6628b80dc1cd129024e088a67cc74020bbe a63b139b22514a08798e3404ddef9519b3cd3a431b302b0a6df25f14374fe1356d6d51c2 45e485b576625e7ec6f44c42e9a637ed6b0bff5cb6f406b7edee386bfb5a899fa5ae9f24 117c4b1fe649286651ece45b3dc2007cb8a163bf0598da48361c55d39a69163fa8fd24cf 5f83655d23dca3ad961c62f356208552bb9ed529077096966d670c354e4abc9804f1746c 08ca237327ffffffffffffffff public=1fd29bb747e2db8f3389d7be7abc1a6abb6d7f698f7eb85b49fb83d41be883cd5 de6d6afb802913c5df7621688b91ee647971742fbf8f5ec82873ea72dedfe755e95fe6eb 30d4143645ac43d8660a5d54d837aabaa56be93598a452b6bf951a1be342c4b3dd53a0a5 64bdabb6802f408472a9bdfefea909bc224af381d52bb3b4e21401888b2b053b82d422d1 ac0a6f2ae35d33da9b1b69951eeef73d09da617ad01cb18017374423de47ee3de33730ac be0a86f55c2764f9a01e377175b785d Knock yourself out! If you can identify a weakness, I would be very grateful. Patrick http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/

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