- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

[eff-austin] Biometrics ID bill hearing on Thursday (fwd)
by Jim Choate 05 May '03

05 May '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 15:59:10 -0500 From: Adina Levin <alevin(a)alevin.com> To: Leaders <leaders(a)effaustin.org>, eff-austin(a)effaustin.org, shenson(a)austin.rr.com Subject: [eff-austin] Biometrics ID bill hearing on Thursday SB945 sponsored by Ogden is being heard in the Defense Affairs and State-Federal Relations <http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/committees/legislation.d2…> Committee on Thurday. The bill enables the use of facial, thumb, fingerprints, and other biometric identifiers for *a broad range of state purposes to authenticate identity.* Several people on this list have professional experience with the reliability issues with biometric ID. ** The legislators don't understand the technology. If you have relevant information, please let legislators know. ** If you'd like to testify or communicate your expertise to the committee members, please contact Scott Henson at ACLU-TX, shenson(a)austin.rr.com, who will let you know who's most effective to talk to. Or fax a letter to committee members.

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[SSZ Error]
by J.A. Terranson 05 May '03

05 May '03

Hey Jim, this has been going on for weeks now - you need to fix your PTRs... May 3 19:12:12 mx2 sm-mta[97105]: h440CBD6097105: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve May 3 19:13:57 mx2 sm-mta[97104]: h440BtD6097104: from=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, size=3267, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4] May 3 19:13:57 mx2 sm-mta[97104]: h440BtD7097104: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve May 3 19:13:58 mx2 sm-mta[97104]: h440BtD7097104: from=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, size=7093, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4] May 3 19:14:13 mx2 sm-mta[97105]: h440CBD6097105: from=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, size=2502, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4] May 3 19:18:46 mx2 sm-mta[97134]: h440IjD6097134: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve May 3 19:18:49 mx2 sm-mta[97135]: h440InD6097135: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve May 3 19:18:49 mx2 sm-mta[97135]: h440InD6097135: from=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, size=11356, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4] May 3 19:18:57 mx2 sm-mta[97136]: h440IuD6097136: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve May 3 19:19:14 mx2 sm-mta[97145]: h440JED6097145: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com>, relay=root(a)[207.200.56.4], reject=451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address owner-cypherpunks-outgoing(a)einstein.ssz.com does not resolve su-2.05b# nslookup einstein.ssz.co -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org

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Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 05 May '03

05 May '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Sep 12, 2002 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. 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Re: China (was Mike Hawash)
by Tyler Durden 04 May '03

04 May '03

Sunder wrote... "Not that I've been there, but the last I heard, China was still an almosttotalitarian communist state and free travel in China is not possible." Your information is almost staggeringly out of date. Even in the late 1980s when I lived in China it was easy to move about freely (well, easy isn't quite the right word when you couldn't book any rail tickets remotely or in advance!). Now of course, things are even more "free". As for "totalitarian communist state", there's not much communist left about it, except for the name of the ruling party. Right now, most of mainland China is about as capitalist as you can get, with the Army one of the biggest capitalist enterprises around (in the early 90s the central government informed the army they were going to have to find a way to raise money to pay a lot of their own bills!). As for the totalitarianism part,as long as you don't complain too loudly about the government, you're fine for the most part (particularly if you have lots of $$$). (Although every now and then Jong Nan Hai will decide to crack down on something and you may come under fire.) If you want to call it "totalitarian", fine. But like all western terms applied to China, its relevance only has a very limited meaning. -TD >From: Sunder <sunder(a)sunder.net> >To: Neil Johnson <njohnsn(a)njohnsn.com> >CC: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Mike Hawash >Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:58:01 -0400 (edt) > >Not that I've been there, but the last I heard, China was still an almost >totalitarian communist state and free travel in China is not possible. In >all likelyhood the hotel he stayed at is one where all westerners >stay. It's also possible that airline schedules being what they are >provided reasons for the same day arrival departure coincidences. > >As for the hotel not having a record of him, it could be they misplaced >it, or more likely misspelled his name, etc, or he didn't want to be >tracked so he used Mike Smith... > >Many things are possible, not all have to be true. > >----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- > + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ > \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ ><--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ > /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ > + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. >--------_sunder_(a)_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ > >On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Neil Johnson wrote: > > > Hawash flew to China and returned to the US on exactly the same dates as >the > > other guys. > > > > Hawash appears to have stayed in the same building as the other guys. > > His and the other guy's lodging was in the same building, but different > > hotels, and the hotel that Hawash had reservations to stay at doesn't >have a > > record of him being there. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: Hippies Banning Smoke
by Major Variola (ret) 03 May '03

03 May '03

At 06:03 PM 5/3/03 +0100, Dave Howe wrote: ><snip "I should be free to smoke"> >Actually I agree - you should be free to smoke all you want to; however, >given that >a) the rest of us don't want to share your smoke >b) you don't want to share the smoke you are paying for *with* us >the real problem is the inefficiencies of your drug equipment - you really >should have some system so you get 100% of the smoke you paid for (rather >than less than 30% as now) Hey, we should *encourage* people to smoke, drink, fuck whatever moves, eat whatever you're served, because we are *coerced* into paying for their retirement. If we weren't, we wouldn't care; but since we are, please, take up whatever reduces your lifespan. And of course, if someone tries to stop you from whatever consensual-'harm' you wish, waste the fuckers, who have claimed ownership of your bodies. Or enjoy your slavery.

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Re: Hippies Banning Smoke
by Tyler Durden 03 May '03

03 May '03

Harmon Seaver wrote... "Oh, another one who either can't read or is just too clueless to get it. Nobody, but nobody, here has suggested outlawing tobacco (although, actually, now that I think of it, maybe it should be until such time all other drugs are freed -- boy, would that be fun to watch all those nic junkies murdering one another to get a fix). If you'd read the thread, what part of "forcing others to smoke" don't you understand? Yeah, even if there's disagreements with some of the anti-public-smoking arguments, the general principals involved shouldn't be too hard to agree with. Basically, "don't try to kill me". It gets easier when one remembers that cigarette smoke was inches away from being declared a "class A carcinogen", but the tobacco companies through much dinero into the debate. That would have put smoke in the same category as asbestos. So now replace a public smoker with a guy playing tossing around a big blob of asbestos, and watch various cypherpunks start taking out their shotguns. -TD "I was in favor of gun control prior to the Patriot Act." -Tyler Durden >From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver(a)cybershamanix.com> >To: jburnes <jburnes(a)vonu.net> >CC: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Hippies Banning Smoke >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 19:02:11 -0500 > >On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 12:25:43PM -0500, jburnes wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 2, 2003, at 11:03 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > > >On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 11:21:05AM -0400, Sunder wrote: > > >>What part of "Don't impose your ideals on others" do you not > > >>understand? > > > > > > What part of "Don't impose your drug addiction on others" do you not > > >understand? Tobacco junkies are worse than crackheads, especially > > >concerning > > >their irrational behavior. > > > > > Actually it may be quite rational. > > "Irrational" is what I call junkies so desperate for a fix that they >don't >care how it affects anyone else. > > > A certain percentage of the > > population may > > be self-medicating for type 2 ADD (nicotine fills in for acetylcholine > > that they > > lack). Some others use tobacco to focus and tune out the really high > > levels > > of environmental noise and distraction that are part and parcel of > > modern society. > > > > Some others may do it just because they like it. > > That's their perogative, they just can't force others to indulge along >with >them. > > > Man, cypherpunks has > > really > > gone down quite a ways when members are advocating who should be allowed > > to consume what and when. Next it will be laws to stop people from > > blowing their > > noses in restaurants. I say let people go to hell in their own way. > > Cigarettes or > > Jack Black or cocaine. > > > Oh, another one who either can't read or is just too clueless to get >it. Nobody, but nobody, here has suggested outlawing tobacco (although, >actually, now that I think of it, maybe it should be until such time all >other >drugs are freed -- boy, would that be fun to watch all those nic junkies >murdering one another to get a fix). If you'd read the thread, what part of >"forcing others to smoke" don't you understand? > > > >-- >Harmon Seaver >CyberShamanix >http://www.cybershamanix.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Re: Conspiracy
by Jay h 03 May '03

03 May '03

>The "actual agreement" can be inferred by a creative prosecutor *. I >don't remember the cases, but can dig out my criminal law case books if >pressed. As usual in these discussions, this applies only to the U.S. > Prosecutors have actually argued that people who talked about NOT doing particular things were actually code talking about commiting the crimes. Sheesh. we're all guilty. j ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at 1st.net

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Some CA elected officials need killing
by Anonymous 03 May '03

03 May '03

arch criminals 1. John Longville (62) - Treason, Betrayal of public trust [1] midlevel criminals 2. Paul Koretz (42) - Treason, Betrayal of public trust [2] lesser criminals 3. Rudy Bermudez (56) - Treason, Betrayal of public trust [3] 4. Jackie Goldberg (45) - Treason, Betrayal of public trust [3] 5. Mark Leno (13) - Treason, Betrayal of public trust [3] [1] "Assemblyman Longville, who earlier was casting votes self-admittingly having no idea which bill he was voting on, was likewise indifferent to the concerns of La Suer, Spitzer and most of the assembled audience. When asked on the sidelines how he was leaning, Longville rather blithely explained, I dont know. I'll vote which ever way the speaker tells me to." [2] "One by one La Suer dissected the claims of what was soon exposed as just another myopic gun ban pushed to center stage while the economy burned. At one point, La Suers growing disgust crossed its limit. The Assemblyman vehemently expressed his outrage that the time and resources of the state were being diverted from the economy to even consider such a blatant sham and he called on Koretz to pull the bill so they could get on with real work. Koretz simply smiled and refused, knowing the fix was in. His fellow Democrats on the committee seemed all-too eager to rubber-stamp the bill in spite of the facts." [3] "At the end of the day, partisan politics once again proved stronger than right or reason. Down the line the five Democrats on the committee cast their obligatory yes votes and AB50 moved one step closer to becoming law in California. Even staunch liberals in attendance were stunned. One woman leaving the proceeding stated, Im not a big fan of guns but right now Im ashamed to say those people are from my party. What are they thinking?" source: soon-to-be-published fcspi.org news item event: Apr ?29th? sham of a committee meeting CA assembly's committee on public safety

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Re: Why are there so many statists and communists here on this list now?
by Tyler Durden 03 May '03

03 May '03

"people who use encryption technology to make statism impossible" I just think that's too grandiose a statement. In my particular case, "People who use encryption technology to make interference in my personal communications impossible", where interference is defined as eavesdropping, jamming, "man-in-the-middle" and so on. In other words, an infinitely hard titanium pipe between me and who/whatever is on the other side. As for the state, well, it may come or go as a result of secure communications. I suspect it will find a way to stick around. But if heavy crypto proliferates it will force it to change, at the very least. But the state is secondary. If they get out of my way (or if by technology I push them out of the way) for the important stuff, fine. But then again, the implications of further terrorist attacks (and the reasons) may be relevant here, but one must tread very carefully on any public board..... -TD "I used to be in favor of gun control prior to the Patriot Act." -Tyler Durden >From: Matt Beland <matt(a)rearviewmirror.org> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Why are there so many statists and communists here on this >list now? >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 16:50:08 -0700 > >On Friday 02 May 2003 04:14 pm, Bill O'Hanlon wrote: > > I think my analogy is good. I think your error is displayed by your > > analogy. In your example, both groups are astronomers. > > > > In the current situation on this list, both groups are _not_ >cypherpunks, > > if you accept the definition of cypherpunks as "people who use >encryption > > technology to make statism impossible." If you don't accept that > > definition, that's fine, but I think my definition is consistent with > > the history of the list, and my guess is that Tim would agree. And he's > > the one who asked the question in the first place. I think it's a good > > question, and I'm curious to hear the answer from one of the folks it's > > aimed at. > >Accepting your definition for a moment, your analogy is still flawed >because >it assumes one group is rejecting science altogether, where here the two >groups simply arrive at different conclusions from the same data. > >But in fact, I don't completely agree with your definition. A Cypherpunk is >one who is interested in the technology and use of encryption, and the >social >and political effects thereof. One definition assumes a conclusion, one >definition defines a group in search of a conclusion. > >And really, my question would remain valid in either case. IF this list is >to >be the home of any sort of useful discussion, then the discussion must >include both sides of the issue. Otherwise you don't have discussion, you >have dogma. > > > You left statists out of your list, unless you were including them when > > you said "cranks" and "gun control nuts". The original question was >about > > statists. > >Statists and communists both would be included in politician, Republican, >Green, Democrat, Libertarian, crank (though not only statists and >politicians >fit there) and gun control nut. Just pick the flavor that matches the >label. > > > Some interesting people have left. Other interesting people have > > joined and are contributing. > >And being railed at as statists and communists. Oh, some interesting people >have joined on the other side, as well - but again, what value in one-sided >discussion? > >-- >Matt Beland >matt(a)rearviewmirror.org >http://www.rearviewmirror.org _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: Why are there so many statists and communists here on this list now?
by Tyler Durden 03 May '03

03 May '03

Steve Furlong wrote... "Powerful computers, strong crypto, and big databases can lead either to anarchy or to an unstoppable Big Brother. Too close to call, right now." Well, I haven't ruled out the possibility that governments will somehow evolve to roll with the punches. Some new form of government may arise that has characteristics we haven't seen before, or perhaps similar to some of the Sci-Fi out there. (Wasn't it in Snow Crash where Stevens pictures traditional governments basically in competition with numerous franchise governments?) For a long time now I've been very sceptical of any predictions of the future for more than 5 years or so out. Technology and society have a way of generating stuff that's beyond an individual's ability to predict, and government might be the same. Or not. -TD "I used to believe in gun control prior to the Patriot Act." -Tyler Durden >From: Steve Furlong <sfurlong(a)acmenet.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Why are there so many statists and communists here on this >list now? >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 22:05:24 -0400 > >On Friday 02 May 2003 14:57, Tim May wrote: > > > And as in that debate, where "free speech" is tossed around a lot, > > nothing in the Dixie Chicks case has involved freedom of speech in > > any way whatsoever. Think about it. > >Tim, you're assuming that statists have the wherewithal to think. This >assumption has yet to be demonstrated. > > > > I do wonder why they are on the list given the implications of the > > technologies. I don't think they've realized the implications for > > their world view and for the breeders and useless eaters they > > support. > >I'm not as confident of crypto's chances of destroying the state and >leaving the parasites out in the cold. It's just as likely that the >government(s) will declare all crypto illegal, except that necessary >for the protection of their own secrets. Digital money is right out, of >course. All in the name of anti-terrorism, or the War on Some Drugs, or >for the chiiiiildren. Powerful computers, strong crypto, and big >databases can lead either to anarchy or to an unstoppable Big Brother. >Too close to call, right now. > >-- >Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel > >Guns will get you through times of no duct tape better than duct tape >will get you through times of no guns. -- Ron Kuby _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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